Senate, House Agree to Sixfold Boost in Airline Pilots' Flight Experience

[ultrarunner]

1500hrs of 172 instruction? Not at all. Pilots need experience in weather navigation, ATC interaction, high altitude aerodynamics, complex systems integration, high density airport operations, PIC decision making, department management, weather depiction, etc. Not 1500hrs of lazy 8's and shooting NDB approaches.

Hey man, it's a start.....

It's possible with 1500 TT, some of these folks will have gotten that by doing other types of flying that what you list above.

The good thing is that the puppy mill schools are immediately shut out. And we won't have 300 hr wonder-pilots flying us around anymore!

 

[Lynxman]

I think its good.. this used to be the rules to get an ATP and have the very minimum reqm'ts when I started flying in 78' It was the reason guys like me never made it to an airline job flying for a living, 1500 hours is hard at that stage of life and it shoule be...

I think it should be HARD to become qualified to become a airline pilot, the rules should require a breakdown of skills logged to include CFII work, 135 operations, a min of multi-time..and actual IFR, then and only then can one apply to an airline.. No more PFT or reductions for this exception of that..

JMHO of course..

I know of very few 135 turbine operators that will look at people with 0 turbine time for employment. CFII work would be great, but at some point it's a wash how much dual given do I need to be deemed necessary to fly a jet. Min multi time I can see, but at what point will I know all I need to know 50? 100? 200? Actual IFR I can see a point in this also, but how much and what if someone lives in areas that have very few IFR days? Yes up the mins, but let's be realistic here it's not rocket science.

 

[Hawker800]

135 ops require a minimum time also does it not. Airline pilot should require an ATP certificate. That is why there is such a license? This makes me feel better since I have to ride in the back of these things alot. I would think that this should cause the pay to rise some also. Better quality required.

 

[Lynxman]

Quality is in the eyes of the beholder looking at the applicant. Joe Schmo can instruct up to 1500 hours and still be a worthless pilot.

 

[dooork]

This will put nearly an end to the puppy mill operations that soak mom/dad for $60K so their kid can be an airline pilot earning $24K a year.

Junior won't want to go to school for 9 months and spend that money if he/she has to spend another 1.5 years finding out how to get 1500 hours of flight time just to get a new hire RJ job.

The mill will move. I can see corporations and 135 operations doing PFT.

 

[Bringupthebird]

How many hours does the typical F/O on a military transport have? How many hours does the typical military pilot have when they separate?

 

[clr4theapch]

I, as an example have over 2800 hours flying.. all in single engine land.. over 380 actual IFR.. not a minute of instructing.. I would not consider myself qualified to be an airline pilot, however, I have learned many lessions and experienced a few emergency's in those hours.. My point is that 1500 hours give you time to simmer and learn by experience performeing different kinds of trips, weather, ATC issues, NOTAM uses.. just plain ol' experience..

I know there are many here that remember flying solo single engine IFR at night and how challenging it use to be before the glass panels came along.. it was hard work, this kind of flying has been well written about as the toughest flying most airline pilots remember from their past..

As for 135 flying.. i was not talking about turbine time.. not being around at much anymore, There used to be alot of 135 work in Single eng Piston service.. We all know Insurance companies have minimum standards before a person can be added to a policy.. there is a reason for that, nuch the same reson the airlines should have minimums like 1500 hours..

This generation of pilots have been spoiled by the degradation of the regulations over the years.. as I said before 1500 used to be the minimum to even send your application in, and then you were not very competitive, the military guys usually walked all over us, so we got passed up... Good luck, and get those hours in..

 

[reido737]

And how does one go about getting these experiences?

Black pen or Blue!!!!?

 

[labbats]

Two things....

I've been involved in instructing both civilian and military pilots. While some of my best students were civilian, every single military initial student was superb. They are driven and focused on the task at hand. Their only job is to make it to that level and they are paid to do so. Incomparable to a flight school who lets anyone with a check from the parents aboard.

1500 hours is the minimum for an ATP. Anyone with a problem with that becoming the new minimum at the regionals didn't sit in too many cockpits in 2005-2007. Newhires with 250 hours were nothing more than students flying passengers and praying the captain didn't have a medical problem in flight.

 

[kf4amu]

Two things....

. Newhires with 250 hours were nothing more than students flying passengers and praying the captain didn't have a medical problem in flight.

I was one of those 250 (actually 360 but who cares) riddle kids and I agree 100 percent. No substitute for experience, I was a passenger, along for the ride on many of my first few flights. I did well in training but I, and others like me never should have been hired. A few hundred more hours won't guarantee better pilots but it certainly won't hurt.

 

[livin'thesim]

It's not perfect, but it is better than nothing.

 

[maru657]

Good start, Now address the rest and duty time regulations

 

[CoolSidePillow]

Black pen or Blue!!!!?

Now that is funny.
If you see it, log it.
If you fly in it, double it.

 

[Splert]

Colgan has done more for pilot wages and QOL than ALPA could in one hundred years.

You sir are an ***********************************.

 

[davessn763]

Good start, Now address the rest and duty time regulations

I think we can wait another 16 years.

By the way they are sitting at the President Obama's OMB, waiting to be evaluated by another bunch of bureaucrats who know nothing about flying or airplanes other than the ATA thinks it will cause too much cost increase which will have to be passed on to the consumer.

What has ALPA PAC done for us lately?

 

[PCL_128]

What has ALPA PAC done for us lately?

Apparently you didn't even read the title of the thread in which you're posting.

 

[bluefin]

Back to the good ol days when the min time a new hire had at skywest was 3000, 1000 turbine! Hell mesa had guys with a min of 1000.

 

[ualdriver]

If this thing goes through, I take back what I have said in the past about a pilot shortage in the future that actually might have a chance of driving up entry level wages. However, when the shortage actually materializes, I suspect there will "exceptions" made to the 1500 hour rule, if exceptions aren't being discussed already in Congress.

 

[igneousy2]

Look out, here comes the MPL.

 

[clickclickboom]

The military comparison isnt even valid.. How do you compare a pilot mill atp special with a military officer that spends a couple years with total immersion in a military training program..


I am thriled that this has passed.. Anything less than 1500 hrs in flat out dangerous. If you have anything less and dissagree than therin lies the problem.

All of the entry level jobs ( caravans, flight instructing, 135 freight, banner towing etc etc) will see strong demand from applicants with low time. The salaries in those positions will drop while the regional salaries will be forced to increase. this will lead to either downsizing, closure, or mergers with some of the regionals as their costs will increase.

This will also lead to more growth at the majors as the cost benefit of out sourcing will be reduced and more majors will grow

This is the best thing that could happen to this industry. Even if you have 100 hours in your log book you will have a better career long term.


From 2013 on the industry retirements will accelerate and jobs will be available.