Spirit Roadshow and TA vote

[:-)]

Don't Go

Vote NO

 

[d.fitz]

Well, that clears it up....

 

[:-)]

Well, that clears it up....

The simple answer is the best answer.

Don't go,

Vote NO

 

[boomlrd]

I won't go and can read the TA myself, don't need it "interpreted" by our union sellouts. VOTE NO!

 

[lostplnetairman]

And I hope that all those voting no are prepared to step up to become the NC going forward and deal with the wrath of the pilot group as Contract 9000 is imposed on us.

Have a good day. I'm done with those that refuse to realize that a pie is only so big and you can't get it all.

 

[likeitis]

And I hope that all those voting no are prepared to step up to become the NC going forward and deal with the wrath of the pilot group as Contract 9000 is imposed on us.

Have a good day. I'm done with those that refuse to realize that a pie is only so big and you can't get it all.

I agree the pie is only so big but you only got a sliver.

 

[Mike man]

And I hope that all those voting no are prepared to step up to become the NC going forward and deal with the wrath of the pilot group as Contract 9000 is imposed on us.

Have a good day. I'm done with those that refuse to realize that a pie is only so big and you can't get it all.

we are still in self help...we can walk right back off the job and on to the picket line.

Grow a set, put them on and vote no...too many people keep saying "I really am not happy with the TA, but I'm too afraid of what will happen if we vote no"

 

[:-)]

And I hope that all those voting no are prepared to step up to become the NC going forward and deal with the wrath of the pilot group as Contract 9000 is imposed on us.

Have a good day. I'm done with those that refuse to realize that a pie is only so big and you can't get it all.

Imposing guarantees a strike. Both sides decided that a continued strike was bad when they decided to end the first strike without a deal.

and now you want us to believe that the company will force a strike by imposing C9000. You get real and maybe I'll pay attention to you. Oh, I have another question. What would you accept if you were a SWA pilot? We made more than them, why not go tell them they make too much.

If any regular, non spirit, FI'ers are reading this, you need to know that the balls of Spirit group are contained in the trousers of the youngsters. The old guys are scared of their shadow.

 

[likeitis]

If any regular, non spirit, FI'ers are reading this, you need to know that the balls of Spirit group are contained in the trousers of the youngsters. The old guys are scared of their shadow.

I think that is par for the course for almost every airline.

 

[lostplnetairman]

Yes, and we all know how wise youngsters can be.

Have you signed up for the new NC? And yes, rest assured, the company will impose Contract 9000 as they are free to do so.

 

[johnsonrod]

And I hope that all those voting no are prepared to step up to become the NC going forward and deal with the wrath of the pilot group as Contract 9000 is imposed on us.

Have a good day. I'm done with those that refuse to realize that a pie is only so big and you can't get it all.

Dude, grow some balls... Baldanza and his cronies will be getting a bonus based on the size of your contract. Don't give them the satisfaction!

 

[lostplnetairman]

Dude, grow some balls... Baldanza and his cronies will be getting a bonus based on the size of your contract. Don't give them the satisfaction!

If you don't work for Spirit, please weigh out.

 

[ultrarunner]

I asked earlier and didn't see a response....

What are the terms of your 'return to work mandate'?

Did your MEC make a deal with the company that you guys won't walk back off the job in the event the TA is voted down?

Something is not adding up....

After years and years of negotiating, you don't go back to work after only a few days of striking with no deal.

 

[likeitis]

If you don't work for Spirit, please weigh out.

Why? your decision to vote for this pile of dung will screw all pilots industry wide for years to come.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Yes, and we all know how wise youngsters can be.

Have you signed up for the new NC? And yes, rest assured, the company will impose Contract 9000 as they are free to do so.

I thought you said " I'm done with those that refuse to realize that a pie is only so big and you can't get it all. "

So why do you keep posting....go back to APC..Adults are trying to talk...

 

[redflyer65]

When is the vote?

 

[lostplnetairman]

In a few hours...

 

[lostplnetairman]

I thought you said " I'm done with those that refuse to realize that a pie is only so big and you can't get it all. "

So why do you keep posting....go back to APC..Adults are trying to talk...

I have not seen the adults. Where are they?

 

[CosmoKramer]

I have not seen the adults. Where are they?

Zingerrr!!!:bawling:

 

[:-)]

I have not seen the adults. Where are they?

The 'adults' are studying the August lines. Looks like Monohan already is taking advantage of the new work rules. Hmmmm....Looks like some new yes voters are back to being NO voters.

 

[bottomfeeder]

Have you signed up for the new NC? And yes, rest assured, the company will impose Contract 9000 as they are free to do so.

Why the fear dude, it needs improvement, send it back, we're in self-help....Don't be so nervous.

 

[lostplnetairman]

Just putting out facts while everyone else is putting out the angry comments. We are in self help, but remember that the company is also free to impose anything it wants to impose. So, get set for contract 9000. There's no scope clause in that.

 

[Beetle007]

To the pilots of other airlines still lurking on this Spirit thread:

I would prefer this TA over almost any other contract in the industry. I would prefer our contract more than Delta, Continental, American, jetBlue, Allegiant, Alaska, U.S. Airways, Frontier, Sun Country, Airtran, USA. 3000, Virgin America, etc.


If you we should vote NO...you should probably go read your contract first.

The only pilots who have the right to criticize anything in our contract are those from Southwest Airlines and maybe Hawaiian Airlines. I use to say Alaska until I learned they are only guaranteed 4 - 48 hour periods home a month.

 

[StaySeated]

To the pilots of other airlines still lurking on this Spirit thread:

I would prefer this TA over almost any other contract in the industry. I would prefer our contract more than Delta, Continental, American, jetBlue, Allegiant, Alaska, U.S. Airways, Frontier, Sun Country, Airtran, USA. 3000, Virgin America, etc.


If you we should vote NO...you should probably go read your contract first.

The only pilots who have the right to criticize anything in our contract are those from Southwest Airlines and maybe Hawaiian Airlines. I use to say Alaska until I learned they are only guaranteed 4 - 48 hour periods home a month.

Not criticizing anything here, but what makes this TA better than "almost any other contract in the industry"?

 

[Beetle007]

Not criticizing anything here, but what makes this TA better than "almost any other contract in the industry"?

Great question...I will answer after lunch because it is a long answer and I will try to detail some of the things that we have in our contract that you don't find at other airlines.

 

[hyflyin]

Great question...I will answer after lunch because it is a long answer and I will try to detail some of the things that we have in our contract that you don't find at other airlines.

I am a little curious of the min "4 day off" deal. Seems it could be a little limiting as it relates to credit hours. Are you guys working pref bid or hard lines.. and how easy is it to drop a day off and pick up time? Also are you guys still getting 150% for you open time pick up in the new contract?

Thanks

 

[CosmoKramer]

Great question...I will answer after lunch because it is a long answer and I will try to detail some of the things that we have in our contract that you don't find at other airlines.

Better make that a liquid lunch Beetle!!!!!

 

[Beetle007]

Not criticizing anything here, but what makes this TA better than "almost any other contract in the industry"?

No offense taken. I would simply say that Spirit Pilots have obtained a very good combination of pay and work rules. I know that some airlines might have better rules in some areas. My point is that the sum total of our Spirit work rules and pay is very good.

Contract enforcement:
We added this wording to our contract:

“..The parties will create an official bargaining history of all amended sections of the collective bargaining agreement. This history will be made before a court reporter and preserved by both sides. It is agreed that this memorialized bargaining history will be the definitive record of the parties’ bargaining conduct and intent on the amended sections, and shall be admissible as such in arbitration or other ligation.”

Scope:
Our current contract (and TA) prohibits any revenue sharing agreement that exceeds 90 days OR results in a furlough. The company admitted this during negotiations and it became part of our legally binding bargaining history. The company asked for the ability to outsource some flying and the negotiators denied their request. The company can conduct code-shares with other airlines in excess of 90 days that don’t result in a furlough AND that don’t result in Spirit making revenue from the other airlines’ flights.

Compensation:
Industry average is achieved during the contract, and exceeded by the end of the contract. Hopefully other airlines will get big pay raises because we don’t want to be above industry average when we go into negotiations in 5 years.

Per diem is $2/hr and increases a nickel a year.

Scheduling:
The company can’t schedule us to have less than 4 days off between trips (except the first 3 or last 3 days of the month). In other words, the company can't schedule you for 1, 2 or 3 days off. Once the schedule is created, the pilot can voluntarily trade trips to have less than 4 days off.

Spirit still has line bidding that allows us to bid transition conflicts when trips in one month conflict with the next month. The pilot can choose to drop trips that conflict without pay protect (i.e., this month I got 19 days off) or the pilot can choose to stay pay protected and the company can change the trips only on the days he/she was originally supposed to work. However, the pilot can never be scheduled to work more than 6 days in a row. If I fly the last 6 days of a month and bid a line with the first 5 days of the next month…..that is 11 days. So, the company has to drop 5 days pay protected (from the beginning or end of the 11 day block but not the middle). The company isn’t allowed to create days off that don’t touch days you originally had off! Once the schedule is created, I can even pick up trips on the days that were originally dropped. For example: a pilot can convert a 15 day off 85 hour line into a 15 day off 110 hour line without ever working an extra day or making special deals with scheduling.

You must have a calendar day off in base after 6 days (not just 24 hours as at some airlines).

Reserve System:
Our pilots still have one of the best reserve systems in the industry. All reserve periods for the month are scheduled to start at the same time. A pilot who starts reserve at 7am is on duty for 14 hours and has to be able to report to the airport within 3 hours.

Our contract prohibits the company from releasing you early from a reserve duty period (except on the last day so you can go home). So if I start reserve today at 7 am, the company can't call me at 8 am and give me a trip that starts the next day prior to 7 am. The only thing the company can do is extend my rest period. So if I am a 7 am reserve pilot, the company’s only ability to make me start a 6 am trip is to give me 33 hours of rest!

Original duty = 7am to 9pm – 14 hours
Original Rest = 9pm to 7am - 10 hours
Additional rest = 7am to 6am - 23 hours
TOTAL REST before 6am trip = 33 hours

The company is calling this a reserve shift. The pilots can only be given additional rest and the last day of the reserve period can’t be extended. If you aren’t on a trip you must be released 6 hours prior to the end of your originally scheduled reserve period. In other words, the company can’t shift your last day of reserve.

If a reserve pilot is given a trip, it can’t exceed 4 hours past the end of your originally scheduled reserve period. Again the company can’t shift your last day of reserve

Hours of service:
Max of 14 hours of scheduled duty. (Same as current contract)
Max of 11.5 scheduled duty if it touches 0100 to 0400 (better)

Actual duty can be 16 (same as current contract)
Actual duty can’t exceed 12.5 if it touches 0100 to 0400 (better)

The company can’t use international rest requirements for our international flights! They must use domestic unless international is more restrictive.

Minimum days off is 13 for line holder and 13 for reserve (except reserve pilots only get 12 in a 30 day month)

Vacation:
1 to 5 years seniority = 2 weeks (56 hours)
5 to 10 years seniority = 3 weeks (98 hours)
10 to 15 years seniority = 4 weeks (112 hours)
15 to retirement = 5 weeks (140 hours)

Vacation can be used in scheduled weekly blocks you bid prior to the beginning of the year (and can be changed during the year if they are still available). Any trips that touch those vacation weeks gets dropped and deducted from the vacation bank. One week can easily become 2 or 3 weeks of vacation. That is something not possible at many airlines with preferential bidding because the company could have you finish a trip the day before your vacation and start a trip the day after your vacation.

Pilots can also use what they call “floating vacation” if they want to drop individual trips during the year that aren’t part of their weekly vacation periods. There is no limit on floating vacation and it must be granted if there is 10% reserve coverage system wide. Once per 12 months, a pilot can use “mandatory floating vacation” to force the company to drop a trip even if there is less than 10% reserve coverage (except during specific holiday periods or if another pilot used it on the same day)

Training pilots

FTD and SIM instructors are seniority list pilots (i.e. we kept them in the pilot staffing numbers) and with great instructor overrides in addition to their pilot pay (DE = $50/hr, line check from pilot seat = $35/hr, sim check or line check from jumpseat = $27.50/hr, Sim inst = $20/hr, ground inst = $14/hr).

Training:
We get hotels for all simulator training in Miami (even for pilots based in Ft. Lauderdale which is just a 35 minute drive according to mapquest) And a lot of other good stuff like no checks or training between 0200 and 0600.

Sick Leave:
4 hours per month up to a cap of 400.

Arbitrations:
New expedited arbitration language added that won’t let the company delay arbitrations for many months. The availability of the company’s attorney (or union’s) is ignored when scheduling arbitration dates. We will no longer have cross examination and briefs that take months.

Pilots who are disciplined are still protected for due process and not part of the expedited language. However, there will be much more time by the union (and arbitrators) to focus on protecting pilots rather than contract interpretation arbitrations.

 

[Beetle007]

Deadheading
100% pay and must be window or aisle (if available). If not available, the seat must be the most forward part of airplane available. Seat must be given when they create the schedule and not the day of the trip. Pilot will be given a confirmation number with their schedule and can change the seat on the Spirit website like any other passenger (except to a big front seat or exit row because the company tries to sell those seats for extra). After takeoff, the pilot can move to any unsold big front seats (Spirit version of first class)

Furlough:
The union added language that allows furloughed pilots to accrue longevity for up to one year on furlough. Previously, furloughed pilots only accrued seniority and not longevity.

The union increased furlough notice from 14 to 30 days (paid for a minimum of 30 days following notice).

No pilots can be downgraded or furloughed as a result of any changes to the TA. This is complicated because a previous arbitrator ruled that Spirit can’t downgrade unless there is a reduction in force. Thereforem our negotiators just added that the company can’t furlough which also protects current captains from a downgrade.

Commuter Policy
You must attempt two flights before the start of your schedule. You must notify the company after your first missed flight. If you can’t get on your second flight…you can’t be punished. No limit on how many times you can do this.

Electronic shift trade
The company wants automated trip pickups, trades, and drops. We currently use the FLICA computer system, but requests are manually processed by schedulers each midnight which creates a high workload for them (even more if we keep growing). In order for us to approve an automated system, 75% of the days each month must be green days in which the company has to approve a drop or net loss trade. 25% of the days can be red in which case the automated system must still allow trades if the day you are picking up has worse reserve coverage than the day you are dropping.
One pilot's junk might be another pilot's gold. That is the reason the union wants it real time rather than each midnight to generate more activity. More activity = better schedules.

 

[Noodles]

I guess I don't understand your comment about industry average and leading compensation. If this is yours (proposed):

Captain:

Years of Service DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4

1 64.65 64.65 65.94 99.62 101.62
2 96.64 96.64 98.57 119.49 121.88
3 104.46 104.46 106.55 124.04 126.52
4 108.14 108.14 110.30 128.78 131.35
5 115.51 115.51 117.82 133.68 136.35
6 117.65 117.65 120.00 138.78 141.56
7 119.74 119.74 122.13 143.73 146.60
8 133.68 139.16 141.94 147.73 150.68
9 135.69 142.27 145.12 152.15 155.20
10 137.73 145.44 148.35 156.72 159.86
11 140.53 149.10 152.08 161.43 164.65
12 143.30 152.84 155.90 166.27 169.60
13 146.09 156.61 159.74 171.25 174.67
14 148.90 160.44 163.65 176.40 179.93
15 151.67 164.33 167.62 181.68 185.32

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]and this is Allegiant's (a place people have complained as being the lowest paying):[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]

[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Yours is lower, until a couple of years into a new contract. But, it's only higher in the upper tiers (years 12+). If a year 3 captain at Allegiant makes $136, and a year 3 captain at Spirit makes $105-126 (in the last year), how is that industry average? Please help me understand...[/FONT]