AAA-West En-Banc appeal

[SOVT]

Rumor out there that the appeal was denied. Any credible info out there?

 

[Metrojet]

Rumor out there that the appeal was denied. Any credible info out there?

rumor - correct

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Correct. Issue not ripe in the justices' eyes.

 

[General Lee]

Correct. Issue not ripe in the justices' eyes.

All that means is that the West hasn't been affected YET. The company would be crazy to deal with the East and do it their way, because as soon as they do that, the West will cry "ripe" and they will THEN WIN. Can you explain how this was a WIN for the East? Maybe a Delay, but not a win. As soon as something AFFECTS the West, they will sue and win. And, the West guys still make more money than the East guys per hour on the 757s and smaller busses.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[mesaserf]

Jesus, what is this.. a game of cricket?

When will this crap end?

 

[TWA Dude]

When will this crap end?

As soon as the Easties want it to. They started the war and the West is only defending itself.

Binding arbitration is supposed to be binding even when the result is disliked.

 

[captfred]

As soon as the Easties want it to. They started the war and the West is only defending itself.

Binding arbitration is supposed to be binding even when the result is disliked.

Amen brother.

 

[johnnyb]

Binding arbitration is supposed to be binding even when the result is disliked.

And membership ratification is too, even when you're out voted 2-1.

 

[BeCareful!]

As soon as the Easties want it to. They started the war and the West is only defending itself.

Binding arbitration is supposed to be binding even when the result is disliked.

We started a war? Weren't you guys the plaintiffs? This is over now unless you guys decide to waste everyone's time with another lawsuit.

Nicolau arbitrated a dispute between two ALPA's. That's history. We have a new union because the vast majority wanted one. ALPA sucks, and it has for many years. Many of your pilots know this at their core, which is why they tried to get rid of ALPA too, before the St. Nic landed in your laps and all of a sudden ALPA looked real good, if only as a means of keeping the windfall that put you on top of a seniority list with massive retirements and wide body flying and opportunities that would have never, never ever, existed for you out of LAS or PHX.

We didn't sue you. You started the legal battle, which I have to say is an improvement over the period of time you guys were mailing feces to the union. You are to be commended for elevating yourselves to at least legitimate actions pursued in court. Commendations aside, though, it doesn't change the fact that the West is in charge of letting this fight die, not the East. The courts have opined that a contract with the Nic windfall in it is not going to be ratified. Attempting to ratify a contract with the Nic in it would be a waste of time for USAPA. So, what exactly do you suggest they do?

Mediated negotiations are under way. You'd be best served to get a grip on what's really going on, not just what your team posts on the Internet. Your Date of Hire, combined with generous one-way protections designed to bolster your lot in light of the fact that you're at the younger airline, is not exactly a poke in the eye. It only looks that way if you imagine that the Nic is in place. The 9th circuit let go of that fantasy, not even considering it plausible; perhaps it's time for you to do so, as well.

 

[jtf]

It won't end until all the pre merger East pilots are retired, the company is sold off in parts, or liquidates. And even then there may be some more lawsuits. What a marriage made in Hell. I honestly feel for both sides.

 

[Whine Lover]

hayseuss frickin' christo...here we go AGAIN.

 

[Milmil]

And, the West guys still make more money than the East guys per hour on the 757s and smaller busses.

Bye Bye--General Lee

That is not quite accurate; If you would have said the 737s and smaller buses you would have been correct.

 

[TWA Dude]

We started a war? Weren't you guys the plaintiffs?

Please don't insult everybody's intelligence. Must I replay the sequence of events? The War Against the West began when the AAA petulantly withdrew from joint contract negotiations during the summer of 2007.

-----This is over now unless you guys decide to waste everyone's time with another lawsuit.

We wouldn't dream of losing your respect by giving up so easily. If you try to shove your list down our gullets it'll be unquestionable ripe and we'll file for an injunction. You fire at us and we return fire.

-----Nicolau ... blah blah blah.

Who cares about Nicolau. We're talking about USAPA's Duty to Fairly Represent. I'm sure you noticed that but for the ripeness issue the case was open-and-shut.

-----We didn't sue you.

President Ahmadinejad, is that you? Your revisionist view of history will not stand. Remember how the AAA MEC sued the AWA MEC? Care to withdraw your statement?

-----You started the legal battle,...

Aside from you being wrong about that it's a specious argument to accuse the aggrieved of starting the battle by filing a lawsuit. The Addington suit was a defensive move.

-----...which I have to say is an improvement over the period of time you guys were mailing feces to the union.

Did that actually happen? If so, prove it! Oh yeah, you can't. If it did happen criminal charges would've been filed (and rightly so). Did the DA even investigate?

-----Commendations aside, though, it doesn't change the fact that the West is in charge of letting this fight die, not the East.

That statement is correct in the same sense that a rape victim is free to stop resisting at any time and just enjoy the sex. (Credit to Bobby Knight for originating that gem.)

-----The courts have opined that a contract with the Nic windfall in it is not going to be ratified.

Opinions are like anuses. Theirs is non-binding and irrelevant to the case.

-----Attempting to ratify a contract with the Nic in it would be a waste of time for USAPA.

I don't believe you. You'll have to prove it.

-----So, what exactly do you suggest they do?

Thanks for asking. a) drop the RICO suit appeal and compensate the defendants for their legal fees. b) Merge with ALPA and we'll take it from there.

-----Your Date of Hire, combined with generous one-way protections designed to bolster your lot in light of the fact that you're at the younger airline, is not exactly a poke in the eye. It only looks that way if you imagine that the Nic is in place.

Seriously, do you really expect us to believe that? There's a reason our seniority integration ended up in arbitration: because we were unable to reach consensual agreement.

I don't give a poop how "generous" you feel your c&r's are. We don't agree to them and your attempt to shove them down our gullet proves how egregious your failure to represent us is.

-----The 9th circuit let go of that fantasy, not even considering it plausible; perhaps it's time for you to do so, as well.

The appellate court told you when you ratify a TA with your DOH (cramdown) list it will be "unquestionably ripe". That's all that matters at this point.

 

[Taco Rocket]

I have a serious question, if I may:

How will the West continue to pay for these lawsuits? I wonder how much it owes its attorneys already. Must be millions. How is this financed? Does the West have an indefinite open credit line from their law firm? At what point do they expect to be paid? Who fronted the money for the current cases?

I assume the other side is dues financed with solid cash flow. And I read that the appeal's denial will not allow the West to collect any cash at this time. Without going in to the merits of any case (more than beating a dead horse on these forums), can anyone intelligently speak to any of these questions?

 

[TWA Dude]

How will the West continue to pay for these lawsuits?

Same way we've funded it thus far: voluntary contributions.

I wonder how much it owes its attorneys already.

Why in the world would you care? For the record I don't know because they don't tell us. From that I'm guessing whatever it is it's manageable. Don't you worry about our legal bills. You can run along now.

 

[Taco Rocket]

Same way we've funded it thus far: voluntary contributions.Why in the world would you care? For the record I don't know because they don't tell us. From that I'm guessing whatever it is it's manageable. Don't you worry about our legal bills. You can run along now.

Self funded, and you don't know how much you owe? (And you don't ask?)

 

[TWA Dude]

The lawyers are still working. That tells me they're being paid enough.

 

[cactusboy53]

Self funded, and you don't know how much you owe? (And you don't ask?)

Taco;
Thanks for the concern. As TWA said it is self funded. As things progress, the former AWA pilot group are sending in contributions. One thing that you may not know is that there are pilots from OTHER AIRLINES that are sending in contributions as well!! Isn't that AWESOME?!?!

Your concern further leads me to believe that you and others may wish to contribute to our cause. If that is the case:

LEONIDAS LLC
PO BOX 3362
TEMPE, AZ 85282​

Thanks again for voicing your concern. It is greatly appreciated!!​

 

[Crzipilot]

Hmmm...I wonder if you might do better with contributions, sitting on a corner with a cardboard sign. I'm sure we could come up with some snappy slogans for ya....

 

[St. Nic]

Ya, the AOL crowd has made this merger a living hell. They can't figure out DOH is the gold standard and are screwing the rest of us with their terrorist antics. AOL is holding this pilot group hostage!