June '10 Marquis Jet Card sales

[ozpilot]

rajflyboy

You only lose sick time if you don't spend 2 minutes filling in the report and even then its only half a day.

I wonder how we are supposed to use the other half day

I do think the reporting requirement could be a lot simpler. The first question asked should be "Are you fatiguing due to unrealistic scheduling?". If you answer yes the system should extract your last 3 duty day times from IjetII and attach them to the report. Done.

If not, then ask me all the other questions.

I suspect at least 90% of all reports fall into the first category.

Don't let the reporting requirement stop you from calling fatigued!

Hmmm .. risk dying in a fiery crash or call it a day, go to the hotel, get a good nights rest and spend 2 minutes filling in a report.

No brainer to me.

 

[gunfyter]

Exactly. The new slogan should be "We do more with less." And gun, why aren't you fatiguing if you are thinking about it? You are either fatigued or you aren't? Just wondering as I sit on the sidelines unemployed.

I didn't say i was thinking about fatiguing.... But i expect i would have been if i were on a more than 4 day tour.

I said i was working hard and predicted if the pace continues there will be fatigues.

 

[CA1900]

If you don't do the report in the required time you lose sick time.

This absolutely should not be tied to losing a sick day. Thats just pure wrong.

I don't disagree, but it's in black-and-white as part of the contract to which we agreed. They hold up their end of the bargain by giving me a safety option with no consequences. I hold up my end by filling out their little report. I do it on duty, within three days of the event. Not a big deal, truly.

I think the report is pointless because they still don't seem to be learning anything, but it's a small tradeoff. Certainly a lot better than the options I've had at other jobs. ("Fatigued? Are you calling in sick, then?" Followed by, "That makes two occurrences already this year; one more and you're fired.")

I do like ozpilot's idea of automating the report, though.

 

[rajflyboy]

I don't disagree, but it's in black-and-white as part of the contract to which we agreed. They hold up their end of the bargain by giving me a safety option with no consequences. I hold up my end by filling out their little report. I do it on duty, within three days of the event. Not a big deal, truly.

I think the report is pointless because they still don't seem to be learning anything, but it's a small tradeoff. Certainly a lot better than the options I've had at other jobs. ("Fatigued? Are you calling in sick, then?" Followed by, "That makes two occurrences already this year; one more and you're fired.")

I do like ozpilot's idea of automating the report, though.

another reason why this requirement really is a farse

 

[bluepost]

Maybe the reports don't show a pattern, that is good....stuff happens, stress, noisy hotel one night, etc. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be reports....if the reports start showing the reason is consistently a specific noisy hotel, now they have hard data to act on.

The idea that you "risk" a sick day because you have to fill out a report (I would be surprised if it takes 1 min) is absurd. It kills me how the best fatigue policy in the entire aviation industry, and the only one written in a union contract providing complete protection, comes under attack.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Maybe the reports don't show a pattern, that is good....stuff happens, stress, noisy hotel one night, etc. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be reports....if the reports start showing the reason is consistently a specific noisy hotel, now they have hard data to act on.

The idea that you "risk" a sick day because you have to fill out a report (I would be surprised if it takes 1 min) is absurd. It kills me how the best fatigue policy in the entire aviation industry, and the only one written in a union contract providing complete protection, comes under attack.

Winner, winner. Chicken dinner.

 

[rajflyboy]

Maybe the reports don't show a pattern, that is good....stuff happens, stress, noisy hotel one night, etc. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be reports....if the reports start showing the reason is consistently a specific noisy hotel, now they have hard data to act on.

The idea that you "risk" a sick day because you have to fill out a report (I would be surprised if it takes 1 min) is absurd. It kills me how the best fatigue policy in the entire aviation industry, and the only one written in a union contract providing complete protection, comes under attack.

It could have been but its certainly not with this requirment. There was no reason to give this away in the contract.

Its just another example of the contract being widdled away one small thing at a time over several years. Unfortunately no one is trying to fix the mistakes that were made. The train is slowly coming off the tracks piece by piece.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Winner, winner. Chicken dinner.

Hey... quit using my line! I stole that from someone else around here and haven't relinquished copy rights at this time.

imp:

 

[Jack Campbell]

There needs to be a unified effort by the Pilots to send the message to the Company with these reports. It reads "Company unrealistically scheduled me to a point where I would be irresponsible to safely accept the trip as a professional pilot, so I fatigued." Period. End of story. If they get that message 1,000 times in a year, perhaps they will get the hint.

 

[brokeflyer]

If they get that message 1,000 times in a year, perhaps they will get the hint.

hahaha.....you think that?


you must be new here.

Safety is their number one concern.....as long as it dont interfer with scheduling

 

[Jack Campbell]

hahaha.....you think that?


you must be new here.

Safety is their number one concern.....as long as it dont interfer with scheduling

Flattery will get you no where with me, son!

If their aggressive scheduling is disrupted by fatigue calls, they will get the hint. Do you get it now?

 

[Helmsalee]

Blue, you nailed it. Sometimes it's unrealistic scheduling and sometimes, ******************** happens that even the most enlightened scheduler could not anticipate. Either way, the system is set up to protect the crew. Raj, you are an idiot. Of course, I'm one too since I have not put you on my ignore list. Yet!

 

[bluepost]

It could have been but its certainly not with this requirment. There was no reason to give this away in the contract.

Its just another example of the contract being widdled away one small thing at a time over several years. Unfortunately no one is trying to fix the mistakes that were made. The train is slowly coming off the tracks piece by piece.

I'm going to say this as nice as I can, but it won't come across that way. Some may view it as a personal attack, in my opinion it is accurate observation.

If you really view this as "The train slowly coming off the tracks", then I question if you have the judgement to be a pilot.

If you are only stirring debate because you are unable to strike up meaningful discussions using your own intellect, well again, I question your intellectual ability to be a pilot.

If you recognize your lack of intellect, yet STILL cannot resist the temptation for inflammatory posts to receive attention, ANY attention, positive or negative, then again, you have "battered wife syndrome" and you are unfit to be a pilot.

So here is the attention you crave:

Judgement, intelligence, ego, you appear to fail on all three. I am truly sorry for the childhood trauma that must have been inflicted on you to cause your insecurity. Seriously. However, this profession is not a charity, and it is mental makeups such as yours that have been the catalyst for the destruction of this profession. So you are not welcome, and every day that you shave, and you look yourself in the mirror, I would like you to think of this post and realize YOU are the problem and consider another career.

 

[Pervis]

Could it be as simple as the company selling smaller shares in airplanes? Used to be 4 owners per plane. Now you could have 8 per airplane. More people to fly around but the financials aren't actually any better. Its just more people owning 1 airplane.

Thoughts?

Been a real long time since 4 owners per plane. Now we offer 32 owners per plane-the equivalent of the 25 hr card Marquis sells. Your lack of common knowledge makes me wonder if you are truely employed by Netjets. You also back tracked after someone called you on the sick day for a fatigue call. Just trolling maybe?

 

[realityman]

Whatever....

I am flying my cahones off ... in the slow season. I am not use to working this hard. 4 day tour and considered fatigue twice. If the flying picks up more they are going to start seeing fatigues, I predict... and they will know its time for Recalls. If that happens it will prove Santulli was right about riding out the Recession without furloughs.

What 2 months ago people were worried about another furlough. I don't see it.

Gun, come back to the X. Seriously, I haven't flown a truly exhausting tour since the bottom dropped out of the economy. Oh, I have the occasional long day here and there, but they are few and far between. Generally, my average duty day doesn't usually go much over 10 hours, and if even 5 of that is flying, I'd call it 'busy'.

Since IBB was signed, I've had a grand total of 3 tours that started before 8AM on the first day. In fact, the vast majority of my first days haven't started until 10AM or later. Most of my last days have had me home no later than 4PM at my HBA. Some quite a bit earlier. In fact, the only 'sign' that I've seen of being a little busier is that very recently I've started working more on my last day than I had been. Still, it's usually one relatively short leg, and still home by 6PM.

Wish I had better news for those furloughed. I think things are picking up, slowly, but considering how I used to work prior to the economic train wreck, I don't foresee any recalls just yet. On the bright side, I think things have picked up enough that worries about another round of furloughs can be put to rest.

Raj, what the heck are you talking about?! You make no sense. The need to fill out a fatigue report is whittling away at our contract? Ummm, the need to fill out a fatigue report after a fatigue call is PART OF THE CONTRACT! And I have no idea what you think we 'gave away' for that. It is by far and away the best fatigue policy I've ever seen, or heard about in this industry. i've used it a number of times myself and it's about as easy and painless as you could ever hope for. The report can be done in less than two minutes right on the BB. And you have 3 days to do it. Hardly an onerous requirement. Heck, it takes me longer than that to log the flight data on the BB after each leg. And ZERO blowback or repurcussions for calling fatgued. Just extra rest. As it should be. And hey, while I don't believe the company is actually doing anything with theses reports, should they ever choose to take their head out of the sand, the data is already right there for them to use. I just don't see how this VERY simple and quick report is cause to disparage a great fatigue policy.

 

[ozpilot]

Safety is their number one concern.....as long as it dont interfer with scheduling

I keep hearing this and it's simply not true! You, the pilot, control your schedule - not the schedulers!

When the scheduler adds a trip to your line they are not telling you to do the trip they are asking you.

It is up to you as a professional pilot to decide if you can do the trip. If you can't call the company and tell them. You will get zero pushback. I've called numerous times over the years and never, never , been questioned.

Btw. I'm busy as heck in the X.

 

[gunfyter]

Btw. I'm busy as heck in the X.

I knew Reality was trying to sucker me in .... LOL.

 

[Fozzy]

If you don't do the report in the required time you lose sick time.

This absolutely should not be tied to losing a sick day. Thats just pure wrong. There is nothing to even argue about.

Really? Is this a major concern? I fill out that stupid form in the van on the way to the hotel. Click click click. Don't care if I click the wrong box because I am fatigued! WHO CARES. Let them play with the stats.

Sorry raj, this is just not even on my radar.