Too much fuel?

[ultrarunner]

I seem to recall an AA captain coming up with more ways to reduce the planes weight, like chaffing the mags, stuff like that. Wonder if this is one of his babies.....

http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel/ct-biz-0627-pilots-fuel-20100626,0,2516875,full.story

 

[Kharma Police]

AirTran has been doing this for a few years. I agree that it is more expensive in the long run to tanker gas than to deal with the occasional diversion.

 

[crxpilot]

"No, that's not going to happen," saidUS Airways Capt. James Ray, who is also a spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association, the largest pilots union in the U.S. "But it is an inconvenience if a flight is diverted."

Huh? How can a USAPA pilot be a spokesman for ALPA?

 

[relief tube]

I seem to recall an AA captain coming up with more ways to reduce the planes weight, like chaffing the mags, stuff like that. Wonder if this is one of his babies.....

http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel/ct-biz-0627-pilots-fuel-20100626,0,2516875,full.story

There is nothing unsafe about being efficient. Landing with an hour and a half of gas remaining is a waste, especially when it's severe clear or at an outstation. Those who claim otherwise simply choose to ignorantly overlook the negative consequences of not caring about efficiency.

 

[2000Easyguy]

There is nothing unsafe about being efficient. Landing with an hour and a half of gas remaining is a waste, especially when it's severe clear or at an outstation. Those who claim otherwise simply choose to ignorantly overlook the negative consequences of not caring about efficiency.

Depends where you fly bro!

 

[C-150ETOPS]

There is nothing unsafe about being efficient. Landing with an hour and a half of gas remaining is a waste, especially when it's severe clear or at an outstation. Those who claim otherwise simply choose to ignorantly overlook the negative consequences of not caring about efficiency.

So it's Ok to have the low fuel lights come on on every leg, requiring a trip into the QRH?
Does 45 minutes of fuel uncover the hydraulic fluid cooling in the main tanks?

Just some more muck to throw into the decison making process

 

[GuppyWN]

We have a guy at WN that I call "Mr. 5.0" because you'll either land at the destination on the very first try with 5,000 lbs. of fuel or you'll have to divert IMMEDIATELY and arrive at the alternate with 5,000 lbs. of fuel - or less.

In his world there is no holding, no delay vectors, no EDCT's and you always climb unrestricted to your filed altitude.

Works....... almost all of the time - until it doesn't.

Gup

 

[KigAir]

he cited two recent cases involving pilots flying for regional airlines — american eagle airlines and trans states airlines — who taxied their planes from the gate to runways with only one engine activated — a common fuel-conservation initiative practiced by most airlines. But the commuter pilots, who typically had less flight experience than their counterparts at major airlines, forgot to start the second engine before takeoff. The pilots aborted the takeoffs when cockpit warning systems notified them of a problem and the planes exited the runways without flying, according to faa investigations.

wtf??

 

[Miami Freight]

I don't get it. My company instituted this three years ago. I pretty much order flight plan fuel every time. If I make my redispatch fine, if I make my destination fine. If things look bad I divert. Not my problem. I've diverted twice due to bad enroute wx forcing a longer route. I thought it would be a huge hassle, CP just shrugged it off. He said the bean counters analyzed that there was an acceptable number of diversions per year that were far over weighed by the savings. My policy is to make darn sure the regs are complied with and operate the a/c safely and prudently. Not my job to save or make money for my company. This isn't the military where someones life may depend on you completing your mission.

 

[Dizel8]

"Reserve fuel should not be touched," he said. "It is there for reserve."

Huh?

 

[Hamburger]

especially when it's severe clear or at an outstation. .

I submit that those days are the most dangerous. When the weather is low and you've got a couple of alternates......you've got options.

Ever had a severe clear day with no alternate and someone gears up his Mooney while you're on final? The outstation's one runway just got closed.....
There's a lot of places where you're really painted into a corner.

Don't let sunshine fool you into not preparing for the worst.

 

[Ralgha]

I submit that those days are the most dangerous. When the weather is low and you've got a couple of alternates......you've got options.

Ever had a severe clear day with no alternate and someone gears up his Mooney while you're on final? The outstation's one runway just got closed.....
There's a lot of places where you're really painted into a corner.

Don't let sunshine fool you into not preparing for the worst.

That's not a corner. There's nowhere in the 48 states that you can't get to another runway on reserve fuel. You don't HAVE to land at an airport that your airline serves, or any airline serves for that matter.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

That's not a corner. There's nowhere in the 48 states that you can't get to another runway on reserve fuel. You don't HAVE to land at an airport that your airline serves, or any airline serves for that matter.

Ever hit MIA on the wrong summer day at 3:00 pm?


What idiot flight plans an Air Carrier flight with east bum-puck aiport as a back-up? It works well with a Lear and 3 pax, it gets more complicated with security, customs and catering, support considerations such as air-stairs, start carts, GPU's and fuelers for a 150 pax jet.

 

[waveflyer]

It costs $$ to carry extra gas just bc so many of us are scared of our judgement and want a security blanket

 

[Metrojet]

I seem to recall an AA captain coming up with more ways to reduce the planes weight, like chaffing the mags, stuff like that. Wonder if this is one of his babies.....

http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel/ct-biz-0627-pilots-fuel-20100626,0,2516875,full.story

C'mon guys -

this has nothing to do with safety - but everything to do with contract negotiations which AA is involved in with the pilots. It is 100% intimidation from management -

As someone who heard it first hand from a fellow pilot who went thru similar "FUEL SCHOOL" and was brave enough to stand up to management and the FAA - it has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with -I'll show you who is in charge!".

My advice to every AA pilot who has to fill out a P-2 form or whatever it is called - also become a FAA whistleblower and report the unsafe situation. And don't sweat it - when you get that EFC and hold time from ATC and it is one minute into your reserve - just divert to your filed alternate as flight planned. Then you have exercsied proper judgement and stayed legal with no hassle.

Metrojet

 

[Fltlvls]

That's not a corner. There's nowhere in the 48 states that you can't get to another runway on reserve fuel. You don't HAVE to land at an airport that your airline serves, or any airline serves for that matter.

If you land at an airport that is not approved in your OPs Specs, expect to do a carpet dance in front of the feds and your company.Don't forget that you will need performance data to get your brilliant decision making out of there.

 

[ron burgundy]

It costs $$ to carry extra gas just bc so many of us are scared of our judgement and want a security blanket

How is your management plan working out for ya? Yes, when the company/dispatch is trying to "short sheet" the bed........I want my ..banky (security blanket).

 

[embpic1]

"Reserve fuel should not be touched," he said. "It is there for reserve."

Huh?

This is absolutely correct! Reserve gas belongs to me. I always plan to land with at least reserve fuel. If something unforeseen happens (go around due to ac on runway etc.) reserve fuel should keep those fans turning for another approach.

Back in my commuter days I had a flight where I could only take enough gas for one approach at the destination and then would have to immediately proceed to my alternate. After executing the approach and going missed I proceeded to the alternate (DEN). Dispatch called right away and wanted me to try again. That would have used most of my reserve fuel. I kindly told them no and proceeded to DEN.

Again, reserve fuel is there to keep you flying when something beyond your control keeps you in the air. Making the decision to hold or shoot another approach before proceeding to your alternate is something that you control.

 

[Hamburger]

That's not a corner. There's nowhere in the 48 states that you can't get to another runway on reserve fuel. You don't HAVE to land at an airport that your airline serves, or any airline serves for that matter.

True. If you assume you're not in a 1900 or brasilia........

Now you're at some strip you don't have numbers for because it's not in your ops specs (remember that emergency authority only works on the way in) and they don't have a terminal, security, a reserve crew, fuel, or facilities.

You may not be dead, but you don't get to just go to the hotel....

 

[COpilot]

I don't get it. My company instituted this three years ago. I pretty much order flight plan fuel every time. If I make my redispatch fine, if I make my destination fine. If things look bad I divert. Not my problem. I've diverted twice due to bad enroute wx forcing a longer route. I thought it would be a huge hassle, CP just shrugged it off. He said the bean counters analyzed that there was an acceptable number of diversions per year that were far over weighed by the savings. My policy is to make darn sure the regs are complied with and operate the a/c safely and prudently. Not my job to save or make money for my company. This isn't the military where someones life may depend on you completing your mission.

I agree; all our FMSs are about the same, load the flight plan RES on the INIT REF page, when unable fuel prompt comes up, your "bingo" right?

That's by the book?