USAPA wins appeal!!!!!!

[charlie2]

Here fixed your wording for you........

Uhmm...if it was a slam dunk, why is getting dismissed?

Because the judges don't live in Phoenix!

 

[Crzipilot]

If you wish to find out you shall.

Don't really care to find out. didn't care to find out the first time. But alas that's where the road ended up.

I figure, in a few weeks, reality will sit in, and cooler heads will prevail on the west, and they will see the futility of fighting for the NIC. They will then have discussions with USAPA, and agreed upon integration can be brought forth. DOH with c/r's that protect both sides. Done and we move on....

 

[doh]

Clearly Crazy (pun intended) believes that the original arbitration award is set aside by this ruling. I don't believe it is. The ruling is strictly about "ripeness". I am not, nor have I ever been on a list flying any routes belonging to east or west, so I don't have a dog in this fight. My interest is in the legal side, and of course it is always such vicious fun to watch a cat fight!

 

[Crzipilot]

Nope, don't think it's been set aside. But facts are facts. They got their case dismissed, We can ride our wave of retirements and increase our incomes without sharing anything with the west. Simple as that.

Now if they would like to be included, they can agree to not sue under some mutually agreed upon version of seniority list ensconced inside a new CBA

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

No skin in the game, but I warned everyone pulling for the West side about the Ninth Circuit. There was a VERY specific reason the appeal was filed there, and that strategem paid off.

Nu

 

[charlie2]

Heyas,

No skin in the game, but I warned everyone pulling for the West side about the Ninth Circuit. There was a VERY specific reason the appeal was filed there, and that strategem paid off.

Nu

From what I understand it was the only place where an apeal could be heard???

 

[TWA Dude]

Uhmm...if it was a slam dunk, why is getting dismissed?

Read the original trial transcripts and the ruling from the 9th and if that doesn't help you I'll tell you: the DFR violation is obvious when it becomes ripe.

I figure, in a few weeks, reality will sit in, and cooler heads will prevail on the west, and they will see the futility of fighting for the NIC. They will then have discussions with USAPA, and agreed upon integration can be brought forth. DOH with c/r's that protect both sides.

You're making a mistake to think reordering the seniority list to favor the East isn't a violation of DFR. You're now free to utilize your tyranny of the majority to negotiate and ratify a CBA. But do you really believe we won't file for another injunction and get one? From what I know of USAPA I fully expect them to again try to get around binding arbitration. I also fully expect them to again fail.

 

[TWA Dude]

There was a VERY specific reason the appeal was filed there,

You're right. Arizona District courts are within the jurisdiction of the 9th. It would be a very poor strategy to appeal to the wrong court. Ask Mr. Seham about his "emergency" filing.

see map here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_courts_of_appeals

 

[Metrojet]

Easties: understand what this means. The injunction is lifted so USAPA is free to negotiate whatever list it likes, but, if it again violates the DFR an injunction will stop it. So in effect we're back to were we were when USAPA won its election. Enjoy your victory.

Twas -

This could have been a joint victory without the legal fees if the Westies just agreed to fences and conditions as previously offered.

So now we wait and see about LOA 93 pay adjustments.

Metrojet

 

[charlie2]

utilize your tyranny of the majority to negotiate and ratify a CBA.

and democracy kicks in!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlIm-riMN6Q

 

[XBOEINGDRVR]

8 pages minimum........

 

[TWA Dude]

Metrojet -

If the East MEC hadn't pulled out of joint negotiations in 2007 we could've avoided all of this and had a new contract to boot.

But you're right, if we'd acceded to your extortion we'd have saved on legal fees. I have no regrets.

 

[Crzipilot]

Don't worry TWA, reality will set in, and you'll be at peace with it.......

 

[Metrojet]

Metrojet -

If the East MEC hadn't pulled out of joint negotiations in 2007 we could've avoided all of this and had a new contract to boot.

But you're right, if we'd acceded to your extortion we'd have saved on legal fees. I have no regrets.

TWA -

In all due respect - I always thought extortion was a threat you make to another party that their will be serious repercussions if you don't do what they ask - Weren't you guys the PLAINTIFF'S? The East didn't sue the West. The East just had a simple majority when we were allowed to vote on a new bargaining agent.

But getting back to the future - I can only speak for myself - but I am ready to fight for a new contract that is beneficial to both the former East and former West

Metrojet

 

[Crzipilot]

TWA you keep mentioning injunction. Yes the injunction is lifted. BECAUSE the case is dismissed, Thrown out. West told to come back if and when there is a true DFR. At this point in time, there is not one.

Now when something changes, all the sides look at it, look at USAPAs actions, and then they can decide if there is DFR involved. If so, feel free to sue again. But uhmmm....you do understand you start at the beginning. Not the end. Don't think an Injunction is easily put in place instantaneously....

 

[Ocity]

Don't worry TWA, reality will set in, and you'll be at peace with it.......

The Reality is USAPA is specifically barred from using DOH. How is that a loss?

 

[Crzipilot]

TWA,

How much do you currently owe your lawyers??? Since there will be no legal fees and damages trial?????

 

[charlie2]

The Reality is USAPA is specifically barred from using DOH. How is that a loss?

No it isn't

 

[Crzipilot]

The only decision that came down was the case was dismissed. Were there more instructions???

I believe when a case is dismissed, it's over, end of story.

there wasn't any contingencies put on the decision of. Well we aren't going to rule on this now...but USAPA, you can't use DOH.

sure there were opinions, but hey, how many of those are on FI?

Dismissed means, it's done, over with. Come back when something happens and we will start at square one. New jury? Different Judge? Different District? Different lawyers????? Tooo many variables to predict an outcome.

Speaking of outcomes, what's is the west's record of predictions???? At least 0-2????

Unable to get enough Votes for USAPA......Fail...
9th slam dunk....Fail...

 

[TWA Dude]

In all due respect - I always thought extortion was a threat you make to another party that their will be serious repercussions if you don't do what they ask - Weren't you guys the PLAINTIFF'S?

The East extorted the West to give concessions by threatening to dump ALPA in the hopes of getting around the arbitration. The West didn't give in and the DFR suit was the result. The best defense is a good offense.

But getting back to the future - I can only speak for myself - but I am ready to fight for a new contract that is beneficial to both the former East and former West

Sounds good. But I'm sure you're aware that reordering the seniority list isn't good for the West.

 

[TWA Dude]

Now when something changes, all the sides look at it, look at USAPAs actions, and then they can decide if there is DFR involved. If so, feel free to sue again. But uhmmm....you do understand you start at the beginning. Not the end.

Yes.

Don't think an Injunction is easily put in place instantaneously....

How long did it take the first time? Something like three months IIRC. That's quick enough.

 

[ableone]

From the footnotes to the decision.

USAPA’s bargaining
position leaves the Airline to decide between
a lack of a single CBA and an unlawful single CBA

3 We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA. We note, as the district court recognized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was its predecessor, ALPA. The dissent appears implicitly to assume that the Nicolau Award, the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA, is binding on USAPA. See Diss op. at 8021-22.

So we are pretty much back where we started.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Awsome:
So final and binding only means binding when it works in your favor!
:uzi:USAPA, bringing new definition to the word Sc__!

 

[Deadalus]

Like previous posts state, this just means the suit should come after the contract. I don't agree and I'm not surprised there was disention on the panel. The obvious harm was the furloughing of West pilots out of seniority. Just means the trigger was pulled too early coming out of the holster. There are plenty of bullets left in the gun. If you're a low seniority West pilot you should have left a long time ago, furlough or not.

 

[TWA Dude]

If you're a low seniority West pilot you should have left a long time ago, furlough or not.

????!

 

[charlie2]

From the footnotes to the decision.





So we are pretty much back where we started.

Except that during the next round of lawsuits we will all be working under a new contract, so we got that going for us...which is nice.

 

[TWA Dude]

Could've had a new CBA back in 2007.

 

[charlie2]

Could've had a new CBA back in 2007.

I disagree. Too many east pilots not willing to vote yes on ANY contract that included the nic. Me included. I think if the former union was still on the property we would still be voting down contracts.

 

[Crzipilot]

<---- Beginning to think TWA is one of the 1%ers.........

he questions the statement that if you jr AWest you shoulda been gone long ago anyways. Why should the JR leave when they have a chance for such stellar movement when the NIC gets instituted....

 

[TWA Dude]

Ah, yes. When out of ideas attack the poster. How East of you.