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USAPA wins appeal!!!!!!
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The 9th said the company hasn't accepted the list yet, so they haven't committed a DFR. However, they say as soon as they get a DOH list the DFR is "unquestionably" ripe. It's a Mexican stand off. If USAPA pulls the trigger, the 9th blows their head off. It's time for the company to get involved and finally resolve this. Nothing has changed.
Crzipilot
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And then just add Piedmont and PSA in there by DOH!
Sure surf, with a 30yr fence between aircraft and bases...
I read that they are telling Wake to dismiss the case...dismiss it.
Crzipilot
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Have you seen the final ruling?!?!? did hear it's due to ripeness but haven't seen the actual wording. Either way....with LOA 93 about to be won, we have quite a bit of time to ride our retirements and possibly pay raises for a long time......
think it's time for the west to realize this is going nowhere, and I doubt you guys can raise the cash for another full trial, How much did the first one get you!??!?! Time to come to the table and both sides need to agree on something that pisses both sides off, not one side holding a lottery ticket.
weasel_lips
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get2flyin
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In essence, the 9th said walking around with a vest made of dynamite and threatening to detonate it is perfectly acceptable. You only cross the line when you ACTUALLY detonate it.
I'm pretty sure that the Addington case will be totally dismissed and after we have a DOH contract they can re-sue.
Crzipilot
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The west had asked Wake to order us to pay $1.8m for their legal fees.
from my email:
"USAPA NEWS FLASH
The Ninth Circuit has ruled in USAPA’s favor in the Addington case on ripeness grounds. The case has been remanded to Judge Wake with instructions to dismiss the case. The ruling is being reviewed by Legal now; more information will follow."
anyone know what "ripeness grounds" means?
"USAPA NEWS FLASH
The Ninth Circuit has ruled in USAPA’s favor in the Addington case on ripeness grounds. The case has been remanded to Judge Wake with instructions to dismiss the case. The ruling is being reviewed by Legal now; more information will follow."
anyone know what "ripeness grounds" means?
Crzipilot
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Meaning, how can you sue with nothing has happened to hurt you. Your predicting what will happen in the future, and want to be compensated for it now, before that train crashes into your car.
I guess they figured the judges had the same crystal ball they've been using...
Now I would imagine if a CBA is voted in, including a DOH list. (what maybe in 2-3 years) Then they MIGHT have a case for the seniority not being based on NIC....
then they will probably have to wait another 1-2 years to get the case in front of a judge, then another 6 months to a year to get a ruling.
Then of course another 6 months or so for an appeal from whichever side loses.
So I guess you might see another lawsuit in 4-5 years. This of course if the Westies can come up with another 1.8 million on top of the 1.8 million they already owe their lawyer....
I guess they figured the judges had the same crystal ball they've been using...
Now I would imagine if a CBA is voted in, including a DOH list. (what maybe in 2-3 years) Then they MIGHT have a case for the seniority not being based on NIC....
then they will probably have to wait another 1-2 years to get the case in front of a judge, then another 6 months to a year to get a ruling.
Then of course another 6 months or so for an appeal from whichever side loses.
So I guess you might see another lawsuit in 4-5 years. This of course if the Westies can come up with another 1.8 million on top of the 1.8 million they already owe their lawyer....
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WSurf
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Sure surf, with a 30yr fence between aircraft and bases...
heheheheh
Crzipilot
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Seriously there needs to be found a way to get the WO's onto the seniority list and fold the dash and rj flying onto the list.
give you guys DOH with maybe some sort of slotting to bid onto bigger equipment or something....I dunno...... Unfortunately due to the bad blood in previous attempts, I don't think there are enough level heads on both sides to get such a venture done....
doh
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Do you really believe that because one group of sharks went hungry that another group of sharks won't hit that nice fat seal when it swims by? My guess is that those lawyers will line right back up to sue. That way they can pad the billable hours and get back everything they aren't getting today. And they will be back in court just as soon as a DOH list is implemented. The DFR is only delayed. The arbitration award remains legally binding.
Crzipilot
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DOH,
Uhmmm....they might, they might not, it depends on how much NOT getting paid financially hurts their firm. Lawyers aren't charity cases and that's a pretty big nut to be gambling on.
True, your guess is there's enough lawyers out there hungry that someone will pick the case up, fair enough, but exactly how good will that next ambulance chaser be?
By your assertion, are you stating that the West's law firm padded their hours, in such case misrepresenting to the courts what their actual billable hours were??? Do you have knowledge of this?
Either way, the sooner you guys accept what has transpired in the last few hours, the sooner you will be at peace.....
Uhmmm....they might, they might not, it depends on how much NOT getting paid financially hurts their firm. Lawyers aren't charity cases and that's a pretty big nut to be gambling on.
True, your guess is there's enough lawyers out there hungry that someone will pick the case up, fair enough, but exactly how good will that next ambulance chaser be?
By your assertion, are you stating that the West's law firm padded their hours, in such case misrepresenting to the courts what their actual billable hours were??? Do you have knowledge of this?
Either way, the sooner you guys accept what has transpired in the last few hours, the sooner you will be at peace.....
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get2flyin
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You're right, Crazi. Your starving former East furloughs should be able to feast on the careers of the America West pilots. In fact, I think you should ask USAPA to contractually allow East pilots to raid the money West pilots set aside for their kid's college fund. Hey, I'm sure you were planning on your kid going to Harvard but didn't bother to put any money aside. Never mind the fact that by parroting Daddy's ethics they'd be lucky to get into the local community college. It's all about entitlement. Should you be entitled to have my ATM PIN as well?
Don't worry about the money. In a battle for integrity, each West pilot is willing to dig deeply into his pockets to support the group of ALL West pilots. I'm sure this is a foreign concept to you but watch closely. You might actually learn something....or not.
The way I understand it is the DFR case has to be totally dismissed. There will be no more injunction to stop anything. The west will have to re-sue later.
Crzipilot
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Not so sure about just an injunction being filed to stop it in the future, If the case is completely dismissed, I would imagine another suit would have to be brought. Then it starts at step one again. How long would that take and how much west money would it take?????
Also, I think your post needs a little correction. As with the dismissal of the case for ripeness, USAPA did NOT commit DFR. That's my understanding. The judges saying. Nothing to see here, move on, get out of our courthouse. Thank you. NEXT.
So the key word should be IF USAPA possibly commits DFR, which would have to be decided by a court of law sometime in the far future. It will have to defend itself against a possible frivolous lawsuit AGAIN, for the simple fact a group of people don't agree with the fact that the binding arbitration was an INTERNAL UNION POLICY, not associated with the current CBA. As nothing was finalized, that ALPA policy does not apply
Now of course if a CBA is voted in, and it's not the NIC, then you guys will get a second chance to attempt to prove how the then current list is detrimental to the west group, and unfairly favors the east group. Of course we don't know the complete terms of such a seniority list in the future, so when one is finally agreed upon and negotiated with the company. We can see where we stand. Then figure out if you can raise that 2million dollars to place that suit.
Also, I think your post needs a little correction. As with the dismissal of the case for ripeness, USAPA did NOT commit DFR. That's my understanding. The judges saying. Nothing to see here, move on, get out of our courthouse. Thank you. NEXT.
So the key word should be IF USAPA possibly commits DFR, which would have to be decided by a court of law sometime in the far future. It will have to defend itself against a possible frivolous lawsuit AGAIN, for the simple fact a group of people don't agree with the fact that the binding arbitration was an INTERNAL UNION POLICY, not associated with the current CBA. As nothing was finalized, that ALPA policy does not apply
Now of course if a CBA is voted in, and it's not the NIC, then you guys will get a second chance to attempt to prove how the then current list is detrimental to the west group, and unfairly favors the east group. Of course we don't know the complete terms of such a seniority list in the future, so when one is finally agreed upon and negotiated with the company. We can see where we stand. Then figure out if you can raise that 2million dollars to place that suit.
TWA Dude
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I believe that is correct. Another suit for an injunction would and will have to be filed. Considering what a slam-dunk case it was should give USAPA some pause before violating it's DFR again. We'll see.
Not so sure about just an injunction being filed to stop it in the future, If the case is completely dismissed, I would imagine another suit would have to be brought. Then it starts at step one again. How long would that take and how much west money would it take?????
Also, I think your post needs a little correction. As with the dismissal of the case for ripeness, USAPA did NOT commit DFR. That's my understanding. The judges saying. Nothing to see here, move on, get out of our courthouse. Thank you. NEXT.
So the key word should be IF USAPA possibly commits DFR, which would have to be decided by a court of law sometime in the far future. It will have to defend itself against a possible frivolous lawsuit AGAIN, for the simple fact a group of people don't agree with the fact that the binding arbitration was an INTERNAL UNION POLICY, not associated with the current CBA. As nothing was finalized, that ALPA policy does not apply
Now of course if a CBA is voted in, and it's not the NIC, then you guys will get a second chance to attempt to prove how the then current list is detrimental to the west group, and unfairly favors the east group. Of course we don't know the complete terms of such a seniority list in the future, so when one is finally agreed upon and negotiated with the company. We can see where we stand. Then figure out if you can raise that 2million dollars to place that suit.
That's what I meant to say!
TWA Dude
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If you wish to find out you shall.
I would lose even more respect for the west if they didn't sue again.
Crzipilot
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Ok WOW, a West pilot spewing about integrity in ones career. Uhmmm..excuse me, but EXACTLY WHERE AND AT WHAT LEVEL was the West pilots contract at through the years???? Did the west pilots continually raise the bar to help the profession to new levels of work rules and pay rates????
Did the west pilots strive and able to attain at any point in their career top of industry pay rates??? and work rules????
At ANY TIME IN THE HISTORY of the West were they able to attain this????????
Or did they simply get on with any passenger carrier they could, agreeing to work at substandard wages and work rules, happy to be flying something with a jet engine on it??? Or happy to have a job after 9/11??? Any pay check will do???
Or do I have amnesia and have forgotten how the West pilots were the cream de la cream and the envy of every other airline out there?????
No I think it was partially the America West that helped LOWER the bar to the wage levels we currently see the industry at. How else would you be at your HIGHEST pay rates ever. And have the best work rules you currently have????
YOU rode the backs of every other pilot out there, and sat on their shoulders, pulling THEM down to your level. Don't give me crap about integrity or how great of a career you were destined for. (Though I guess If I started at San Jose CC and continued to Mesa to Mesa Grande I too would think of the West as an upgrade)
Anyways.... It's sort of like you guys wanting to jump in line and fly those wide bodies to destinations you never dreamed of flying to. At pay rates your airline would never see in your career. Hey I'm sure you were planning on going to a real airline after the industry recovered from 9/11....but here we are.
Crzipilot
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Here fixed your wording for you........
Uhmm...if it was a slam dunk, why is getting dismissed?
get2flyin
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