To the pilots age 61 and older:

[HAL]

How about a re-phrase of the question:

"Stay off my Airplane jerk! You knew that there wasn't a 767 in the fleet when you hired on, so that's MY plane! Stick with the gas-guzzler 727's you were hired onto. What, they don't exist now? Then retire! I don't care if you're only 45 years old. Whatever the airline, fleet and regulations looked like when you hired on should be the only ones you fly for your career!"

Now seriously, does that make any sense? Does telling someone that they aren't allowed to adjust to changing conditions make any sense? Things change. Grow up. Enjoy what you have and roll with the punches instead of venting here while developing an ulcer.

If it's sunny outside, go for a walk or ride a bike. If it's raining, grab your woman and have some fun. But for god's sake stop complaining about something that adds more options to your career path.

HAL

 

[waveflyer]

HAL-- i agree-- but i have to encourage them to retire.... it's fun to retire- hang out with the grandkids-- play golf-- order up P90X and see if you get through 10 minutes- Internet porn- there's so much to do...
or at the very least- don't be productive--
It's over - but it WAS IN FACT GREED. AND A SHAMEFUL ONE AT THAT. NOT B/C OF ME AND DELAYED MOVEMENT- WHO CARES- BUT BECAUSE OF THE HUNDREDS OF PILOTS THAT WERE FURLOUGHED, IN MANY CASES- AGAIN! JUST AS THINGS WERE FINALLY LOOKING UP. A YEAR INTO FINALLY GETTING RECALLED- GIVING UP GAINFUL EMPLOYMENT ELSEWHERE TO COME BACK- ONLY TO BE SUCKER PUNCHED AGAIN BY THE SENIOR.
YOU OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED THAT YOU MADE NO PROVISION FOR THEM. ENJOY YOUR PAID FOR TOYS- OTHERS ARE TRYING TO FEED THEIR FAMILY AFTER GETTING ROPE-A-DOPED AGAIN BY THE SENIORS...

THE GREATEST GENERATION- GAVE BIRTH TO THE MOST SELFISH ONE- YOU COULD HAVE GOT AGE 65 AND MADE SOME KIND OF PROVISIONS FOR THE FURLOUGHS YOU CAUSED. I NEVER GOT A VOTE- BUT GENERALLY SUPPORTED AGE 65- IMAGINING AN IMPLEMENTATION THAT WOULDN'T SCREW HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS OF YOUNG PILOTS. I DEFINITELY OVER-ESTIMATED YOU.

 

[pilotyip]

What about our 66, 67, and 68 year old pilots? Funny ALPA fought for years to repeal the age 60 rule when it was passed in 1958 because it was so injust.

 

[N2264J]

Greetings fellow serfs

- Medicare doesn't start until 65. Since single payer is considered too socialist,
a lot of people would be one major illness away from destitution without the company's plan after 60 and before 65.

- Social Security starts between 64 and 67. Since a number of pensions and
401K funds were buying up worthless derivatives being pushed by Wall Street
and rated "AAA," a lot of retirement plans have taken huge hits.

It's not just the airlines, the whole country is hurting. If you haven't noticed,
this country's quality-of-life quotient is decreasing. Your children will not have
a better life than you. More and more people will be working longer into their "retirement years" just to get by.

The class war is over and we lost.

 

[eaglesview]

I try and control the things I can. 65 is here to stay. The pilots between 60 and 65 have a right to stay. It's still America is it not? You have a right to disagree, that's fine.

I have to agree with a previous post that states the over 60 crowd is probably not here, so who are you all talking to. In my new hire class at UAL in the early 90's there were 10 ex Eastern pilots that gave up their careers and started over. Do we think they sacraficed nothing. They had an average of 18 years at EAL, here we got folks bitching about a 5 year delay.

PS I am 48, not 62 as some of you would like to believe.

 

[Skyboy722]

No one retired early for me.

QUOTE]

Actually, everyone retired at 60 for you!

 

[inline]

Yes go away, its time to pass the torch. Half way through your gift from Bush and Prater. Take the money and run.

I'm glad Pres Bush signed this bill into law.

 

[Quimby]

I'm glad Pres Bush signed this bill into law.

Of course.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

These guys are at the top of their earning potential. Why would they retire when they lost their pensions? They did not save outside of it because they did not think they needed to. Most are here for the duration, not because they want to screw you, they are doing it so they can unscrew their piss poor financial planning.

We are a few days away from being half way though the five years, get over it, it is water under the bridge. If you want to fight something, watch for getting rid of the retirement age all together.

 

[Bigoober]

Dude, get over it.

 

[Mr Wu]

Things must be great in your world if this is all you have to bitch about.

 

[Lear70]

No ex-wives. No child support. Plane is paid for. House paid for. Summer home paid for. I take one hell of a tax hit. (Not a bad problem to have with no debt.)

That's not very smart. *SOME* debt is good, especially if that $15,000-20,000 on two homes in interest payment per year can bring you down from the highest income tax bracket down into the next bracket (I believe the difference is somewhere in the 6% range).

If you can invest that money from two mortgages (payments at 4.75-5.25% interest at today's rates) elsewhere making 6-7% and save 6-7% on your taxes, that's an extra $15k-20k in your pocket every year. Keep your investments liquid enough to get out of when you retire, pay off the houses, and in the 3-5 years between now and age 65, you'll have another $60-100k to play with in retirement.

A house is not an asset if it's not making money for you in one way or another. Rich Dad Poor Dad (and basic math).

Greetings fellow serfs

- Medicare doesn't start until 65. Since single payer is considered too socialist,
a lot of people would be one major illness away from destitution without the company's plan after 60 and before 65.

- Social Security starts between 64 and 67. Since a number of pensions and
401K funds were buying up worthless derivatives being pushed by Wall Street
and rated "AAA," a lot of retirement plans have taken huge hits.

It's not just the airlines, the whole country is hurting. If you haven't noticed,
this country's quality-of-life quotient is decreasing. Your children will not have
a better life than you. More and more people will be working longer into their "retirement years" just to get by.

The class war is over and we lost.

True dat.

 

[Sy-bill]

Actually, everyone retired at 60 for you!

No they didn't. They only did because by law they had no choice. Otherwise they would have continued. Stupid comment.

That's not very smart. *SOME* debt is good, especially if that $15,000-20,000 on two homes in interest payment per year can bring you down from the highest income tax bracket down into the next bracket (I believe the difference is somewhere in the 6% range).

If you can invest that money from two mortgages (payments at 4.75-5.25% interest at today's rates) elsewhere making 6-7% and save 6-7% on your taxes, that's an extra $15k-20k in your pocket every year. Keep your investments liquid enough to get out of when you retire, pay off the houses, and in the 3-5 years between now and age 65, you'll have another $60-100k to play with in retirement.

A house is not an asset if it's not making money for you in one way or another. Rich Dad Poor Dad (and basic math).

Thanks for the financial advice. I have not shared my entire portfolio with you but I am well set up and am doing well with the advice of financially successful, lifelong friends. (Not pilots)

It's actually called "selfishness."

I completely agree. To tell someone to retire for their own gain is totally selfish.

 

[Dan Roman]

The reality is 60 is pretty young to retire at. You could be looking at 30 more years of fixed income. Inflation will cut your income in half, so working till 65 makes sense if you are still enjoying flying and you should be senior enough by then to get a good schedule
.
Many airline pilots took huge hits in their retirement that certainly wasn't expected, I can't believe anyone thinks someone who lost their retirement should go out early just to make room for some F/O to upgrade a little early and than have the benefit of extending his earning power till 65.
The playing field changed for everybody. Most of the F/O's I know are very pragmatic about it and don't whine.

It's interesting to note that the biggest complainers I have encountered in my career have far and away been the weakest pilots. You rarely hear the truly good pilots whine and complain. I think it has something to do with people that are weak would rather point fingers at others rather than engage in self improvement.

 

[Chairman]

That's not very smart. *SOME* debt is good, especially if that $15,000-20,000 on two homes in interest payment per year can bring you down from the highest income tax bracket down into the next bracket (I believe the difference is somewhere in the 6% range).
True dat.

So lets do your math here. You make say $100,000k You pay out 20k in interest on your mortgage. This brings your taxable income to 80k. Lets put you in the highest 36% tax bracket for this example.

So at 100k and paid for houses you would pay $36,000 in taxes

So at 100k with 20k paid in mortgage interest you would pay$ 28,000 in taxes.

So we would rather pay the bank 20k to save paying the goverment 8,000k. Seems to me I would rather have the extra 12k in the bank and then knock yourself out investing that money. And if you tell me well you would be in a lower tax bracket do it at 15% tax for 80k and you are still out and extra 4k vers having your homes paid for


If writing off interest was so great why the hell would I refi to 4.5% when I could keep a higher interest rate of 8% plus. Used this example right before I fired my financial advisor. Numbers don't lie if you can do the math.