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Spirit #) day cooling off period ...

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SPA ALPA doesnt like web boards

Check out their latest P2P distribution.....


Fellow Pilots:


Negotiations under the direct supervision of NMB member Linda Puchala concluded yesterday. I will defer to the negotiating committee to provide any and all relevant details concerning those talks, we did not however, reach an agreement. We expect to hear something from the Board concerning our case, perhaps by early next week.


I have personally received several phone calls, as have many others, concerning proposed rates of pay and other details about negotiations. These reports have apparently come from the "spiritpilots" web board. Whatever is written there is FALSE. Whoever runs that board does not have accurate information. Further, those who run that web board, post on it, or actively participate in the rumormongering that takes place there, are doing this entire pilot group a disservice. If these half-wits on that board actually took the time to pick up their phone and give their REAL Leadership a simple phone call, they could actually get factual information. These people should be shunned, and treated as pariahs as they are actively seeking to undermine and destroy this pilot group. They will not succeed.


So, spread the word. If you want real information, tell people to call your true union leadership not those who hide behind internet message boards like cowards in the dark.


Thanks,


Paul Hopkins
SPA MEC SPSC Chairman
314 691 2074
 
i known paul for about 11 years now and we helped run TSA ALPA-- you are in good hands- he knows what he is doing.

SKIPPY
 
Skippy said:
i known paul for about 11 years now and we helped run TSA ALPA-- you are in good hands- he knows what he is doing.

SKIPPY
Click to expand...
Agreed but I think someone is tweaking him. That letter was out of character. Insulting to lots of people. It surprised me.
 
Why not just be truthful with your pilot group and give them details so that rumors don't get started? The union still has not told us anything worthwhile; instead, we get the standard talking points and are told to contact the union to get information? What?? Why can't they inform us? We're paying DUES! It's the UNION'S job to communicate effectively.

This is, by FAR, the WORST communicating union I've ever seen. Most airlines have unions that do an excellent job of keeping their members informed so that rumors are quickly dispelled.

The union STILL has not told us what the company proposed. Instead, we're scolded for participating on web boards and for wanting to be informed, while the "Super Secret P2P Committee" gets limited info at best. Unbelievable...the arrogance and tone of that email is appalling.

THEY want us to be dumb and un-informed. It ain't gonna happen on my watch.
 
$0.02 said:
Why not just be truthful with your pilot group and give them details so that rumors don't get started? The union still has not told us anything worthwhile; instead, we get the standard talking points and are told to contact the union to get information? What?? Why can't they inform us? We're paying DUES! It's the UNION'S job to communicate effectively.

This is, by FAR, the WORST communicating union I've ever seen. Most airlines have unions that do an excellent job of keeping their members informed so that rumors are quickly dispelled.

The union STILL has not told us what the company proposed. Instead, we're scolded for participating on web boards and for wanting to be informed, while the "Super Secret P2P Committee" gets limited info at best. Unbelievable...the arrogance and tone of that email is appalling.

THEY want us to be dumb and un-informed. It ain't gonna happen on my watch.
Click to expand...

One question for you: Did you try to call your rep yet? Yes/No?
 
huncowboy said:
One question for you: Did you try to call your rep yet? Yes/No?
Click to expand...
Yes, spoke to my rep many times. I asked Whats the status of negotiations. He responded, " a..um..we need to get the latest from nego committee....they should..a..be sending an update out next week...a...um..the company isnt being reasonable....we will probably have to strike......company...very bad..very bad...

Do you understand our frustration here? The Hopkins letter is the final thrust of the knife in our backs.

Oh yea, go you understand the roll of P2P? Just curious.
 
Last edited:
:-) said:
Yes, spoke to my rep many times. I asked Whats the status of negotiations. He responded, " a..um..we need to get the latest from nego committee....they should..a..be sending an update out next week...a...um..the company isnt being reasonable....we will probably have to strike......company...very bad..very bad...

Do you understand our frustration here? The Hopkins letter is the final thrust of the knife in our backs.

Oh yea, go you understand the roll of P2P? Just curious.
Click to expand...

My comment/question was not directed toward you.
 
At Airtran our union ledership sends out emails all the time. We received the pay rates that the union presented to the company in a great layout. Showed AT and all the other airlines rates and comparsion in alot of different ways. Just saying... Tell your reps/. if we don't start getting information heads are going to start rolling.
 
huncowboy said:
My comment/question was not directed toward you.
Click to expand...

Well, then I will assume huncowboy your question was directed to me. I also assume that you're part of our current union leadership, so my hope is that YOU can directly make a positive impact and improve communication with the group.

To answer your question, I have volunteered to help the union on a particular committee. I haven't heard one way or another whether you want my help. I'm assuming the union doesn't want my help, otherwise they would have jumped at the offer.

My feeling is someone put Hopkins up to responding in that way to that "vigilante board." :/ The tone is not like him...it's out of character. Now that I've cooled off a bit, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that someone enticed him to write those divisive comments.

The bigger point is that communication must improve. No more secrets...that's all we ask.

Cheers.
 
Why do reps always say "Call your reps". Wouldn't it be easier to write one email or make one recorded phone line than answer hundreds of phone calls that ask the same questions?
 
It is way more fun to start rumors and see how long and in what form they come back to you...especially when you receive little info from the union folks.
 
$0.02 said:
Well, then I will assume huncowboy your question was directed to me. I also assume that you're part of our current union leadership, so my hope is that YOU can directly make a positive impact and improve communication with the group.

To answer your question, I have volunteered to help the union on a particular committee. I haven't heard one way or another whether you want my help. I'm assuming the union doesn't want my help, otherwise they would have jumped at the offer.

My feeling is someone put Hopkins up to responding in that way to that "vigilante board." :/ The tone is not like him...it's out of character. Now that I've cooled off a bit, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that someone enticed him to write those divisive comments.

The bigger point is that communication must improve. No more secrets...that's all we ask.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

I quoted you. That means it was directed to you. You were very vocal in that post, and I wanted to know weather you have used the existing methods of communication before asking for more. Sounds like you have, although you did not say either way.

For those who have never called the reps, I just have to say this. If we don't talk to our reps, or the P2P guys, how will they know what we want? FYI several MEC guys were banned from the spiritboard. That is a fact! So I am not surprised they can't stand the place. Not to mention the obvious anti MEC agenda coming from 5-6 individuals on that board that infects EVERY SINGLE thread there within a few hours no matter what the thread is about.

I am not saying that I am overloaded with info from our MEC. Especially compared to i.e. Airtran guys according to what was mentioned in this thread. I am the type who likes to know everything. However I feel there are two approaches here. Our union could (if not bind by some agreement I don't know of) feed the details of existing sections to the pilots piece by piece after each meeting. OR! They could decide to not publish them because there could be changes to any section at anytime until the contract is final. So why get us worked up with "possible" sections? Apparently they decided it was better to not. Fine by me. The MEC guys I have met were intelligent people when face to face. I can only assume they had good reasons to do it this way.

btw:
Your assumption about me being part of the MEC is wrong. I am a furloughed ALPA member at this time.
 
WOW, they were kicking off MEC.?Im confused because ALPA national teaches not to post on boards only official methods. So how could you get kicked off if you werent there in the first place? But, please tell me a name of one person that was kicked off. I want exploit this when I get the facts.
 
$0.02 said:
Well, then I will assume huncowboy your question was directed to me. I also assume that you're part of our current union leadership, so my hope is that YOU can directly make a positive impact and improve communication with the group.

To answer your question, I have volunteered to help the union on a particular committee. I haven't heard one way or another whether you want my help. I'm assuming the union doesn't want my help, otherwise they would have jumped at the offer.

My feeling is someone put Hopkins up to responding in that way to that "vigilante board." :/ The tone is not like him...it's out of character. Now that I've cooled off a bit, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that someone enticed him to write those divisive comments.

The bigger point is that communication must improve. No more secrets...that's all we ask.

Cheers.
Click to expand...
2 cents Do you think he was 'just taking orders' or was he brain washed to write such a letter?
 
:-) said:
WOW, they were kicking off MEC.?Im confused because ALPA national teaches not to post on boards only official methods. So how could you get kicked off if you werent there in the first place? But, please tell me a name of one person that was kicked off. I want exploit this when I get the facts.
Click to expand...

Ohh sure! I am going to tell you names. Here in a anonymous forum. In reference to another forum that is also anonymous.
 
being furloughed from united , i understand your yearning for information- however being involved at TSA ALPA- sometimes even i was left out of the loop- and there is a reason for this too- soemtimes they cant let certain things out-- sometimes they are giving the company a little more time- sometimes their move has to be dependent on what the mediator does--- etc--- Other times they dont want to get a feel of the pilot sentiment by sending something out--- it's better to wait , have all the chips lie in place and have a once and for all update when it means something and then have a plan to respond to it.

All I can really say is get involved and stay informed-- some of our volunteers volunteered strictly to be more in the loop and act as a phone tree to others --

trust me after what paul has demonstrated he would do and the lengths he would go for a pilot group--- you are in good hands--- do believe what you read/hear unless it come from a certain few key people from the union

SKIPPY
 
ultrarunner said:
Did they make a formal request to BE released?
Click to expand...
Yes, Several times. It is likely that we will start our 30 day cooling this week but no promises. People here are so angry that they want to shut it down and see blood shed.
 
Remember that the NMB has to put together a contract and offer it to both sides...a proffer of arbitration, if either side rejects the proffer the NMB will release both sides into the 30 day cooling off period. But keep in mind that the President or even congress can still intervene.

First the proffer
Second either side must reject it
Third 30 day cool off starts
 
Mike Oxlong said:
Remember that the NMB has to put together a contract and offer it to both sides...a proffer of arbitration, if either side rejects the proffer the NMB will release both sides into the 30 day cooling off period. But keep in mind that the President or even congress can still intervene.

First the proffer
Second either side must reject it
Third 30 day cool off starts
Click to expand...


You'll never see a PEB intervention in this fight, but Mike is correct, that is the process.

If the unions did anything good, they would lobby and support legislation that modified the RLA, as this process is just so one sided against the union.
 

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