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UAL/CAL Merger Buzz Article......(Again)

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Shrek

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http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=158923

Merger buzz swirls around UAL
by Daniel Platt
March 02, 2010

UAL_MKT1

Daniel Platt/MEDILL

Delta Airlines holds a market capitalization twice that of United and Continental combined.

UAL Corp., parent of Chicago-based United Airlines, would be well advised to ramp up merger talks with Houston-based Continental Airlines.

At least, that’s what some experts are saying.

They believe that United, struggling in an era of depressed industry revenues, could invigorate its market value and its competitiveness in a crowded market by joining with another domestic carrier.

They say the increased efficiency generated by combining routes, hubs and fleets, would generate a positive impact on a combined company’s market value.

“It makes business sense,” said Vaughn Cordle, chief analyst at AirlineForecasts LLC, an equity research firm. “By merging, both companies can consolidate and eliminate overlapping functions to generate cost synergies. The opportunity cost is too high not to consider.”

As time goes on, consolidation is looking even more attractive. The recent merger between Delta Airlines Inc. and Northwest Airlines—creating the largest airline group by traffic—threatens both United’s and Continental’s market share, specifically on the East Coast.

“The union of Continental’s Newark hub and United’s presence at Washington-Dulles would be a powerful combination,” said Jay Sorensen, airline consultant and president of Wisconsin-based IdeaWorks. “Currently, Delta is attempting to dominate New York at John F. Kennedy and LaGuardia Airports.”

Like many other airlines, United is losing money, though less than before. It’s coming off a 2009 fourth quarter loss of $240 million, an improvement from a $1.3 billion loss in the same quarter last year. For the full year, United recorded a loss of $651 million compared with a $5.4 billion loss in 2008.

Before February, UAL’s stock was trading between $12 and $14. It’s a far cry from last summer when shares were trading near $3, but even farther off from the summer of 2008 when the price was hovering around $40.

The possible solution: “UAL has been supportive of consolidation for a long time,” Chief Financial Officer Kathryn Mikells said last week at the Reuters Travel and Leisure Summit. “It is something we will continue to look at.”

United’s stock has responded to the rising talk of consolidation. Since Mikells made the statement on Feb. 23, United’s shares have climbed nearly 15 percent to $17.87 from $15.58. Continental’s stock has risen 3 percent since last Tuesday.

According to a Bloomberg LP survey of 10 analysts, the consensus 12-month target price is $23 with eight buy ratings. However, individual estimates vary widely, perhaps because of consolidation uncertainty. In early February, Helane Becker of Jesup & Lemont Securities Corp., who maintains an 18-month target price of $15.66, downgraded the stock to hold. Daniel McKenzie of Hudson Securities Inc. recently raised his 12-month target price to $26 from $20 and rates the shares as a buy.

In his February note, McKenzie said that his report did not include a valuation premium to account for a potential merger with Continental, but added it's “a merger we believe is inevitable."

The Bloomberg survey of analysts is projecting 2010 earnings per diluted share of $1.04, up from a loss of $4.32 per diluted share in 2009.

“The objective of being in business is to maximize firm value,” Cordle said. “Big airlines are coming up short in covering their average capital costs.”

He points to the Delta-Northwest merger's creation of a combined market capitalization of nearly $10 billion, close to double the current market capitalizations of United and Continental put together, a statistic United CEO Glenn Tilton quoted last week in an interview with the Financial Times.

“The investor seems to have spoken,” he said. “The market seems to have suggested that scope and scale in global business are important.”

According to Cordle’s valuations, a combination of Continental and United could generate enough in synergies to create additional $5 billion in value, moving the combined company into alignment with the new Delta.

“That is the only reason they should merge,” Cordle said. “I would argue that the opportunity cost of not merging is $5 billion.”

He contends that consolidation is attractive because airline profits are inadequate to fix company balance sheets, satisfy labor, reinvest in aircraft and still provide a normal return for shareholders.

United has been stockpiling cash since the end of 2008, going from a negative free cash flow of $1.7 billion to a positive free cash flow of nearly $650 million in 2009. United sits with the most free cash flow among its industry peers.

Sorensen says airline management teams have to consider all possibilities for consolidation in order to avoid elimination.

“It’s a cut-throat business with assets that are very movable,” he said. “If they don’t keep open minds, they can end up like Pan-Am or Eastern Airlines that no longer exist.”

As competition from low-cost carriers like Air Tran and Southwest continues to eat away market share, Sorensen says being a large company is one of United’s most important attributes.

“They can’t beat them in operating cost, but they can try to beat them in size and mass.”

However, not all industry experts agree on the wisdom of consolidation.

“Ninety percent of all airline mergers in the last 30 years have been dismal and utter failures,” said Hubert Horan, an independent airline consultant in Phoenix.

An example he points to is American Airlines’ acquisition of Trans World Airlines in 2001 for more than $600 million in cash and $3 billion in assumed debt. The deal, combined with the shock to the airline industry of Sept. 11, nearly brought the carrier to bankruptcy.

Horan said that while the idea of a United-Continental marriage has been talked about for five years, it remains a long shot because contracts, labor negotiations and management power struggles can get in the way.

“If United and Continental agreed to merge, unions would threaten to disrupt operations if they weren’t taken care of and lessors of planes would still want to get paid for overlapping planes taken out of service,” he said. “In the real world, you have to deal with these things.”

He says that the idea of consolidation keeps getting floated by United management because while United is not near the verge of liquidation as it was several years ago when it filed for bankruptcy protection, it is still stumbling along and not successful at providing a return on investment.

“It’s a lot easier to make money from an M&A deal than to be profitable,” he said.

Where other experts see a potential merger as a way to create billions of value, Horan said not only will the result be minimal cost savings, but the customer will not benefit from the combined airline.

“It’s decimal place stuff, saving money on paper clips and having one frequent flier program instead of two,” he said. “For the consumer, a flight from Chicago to Los Angeles will be no more competitive under a bigger company than it is today.”

Sorensen of IdeaWorks points to more personal issues that keep mergers from being completed.

“In a new airline, they have to agree on things like which management team will stay and where the headquarters will be,” he said.

According to SCordleAB of AirlineForecasts, the longer that large legacy carriers like United wait to consolidate, the worse their position in the market will be moving forward. The large domestic carriers have lost more than $60 billion over the last decade and have continued to lose market share to low-cost carriers. With less market share comes less pricing power.

“Only way to maintain profitability is to control supply of seats where you get high enough price to break even on average capital costs,” he said. “If they continue in the status quo, it will destroy their economic value.”
 
How do CAL and UAL stack up? Following are some relevant numbers. Particularly alarming are the facts that: UAL burned through $1.239 billion in cash just to continue operating in 2008, UAL has net tangible assets of negative $5.117 billion, and UAL's average fleet age is 14.5 years:

  • Market Cap 05 Jan 2010: CAL 2.85 B / UAL 2.32 B
  • Total Liabilities: CAL 12.150 B / UAL 20.992 B
  • Net Tangible Assets: CAL (- 348 M) / UAL (- 5.117 B)
  • 2008 Operating Loss: CAL (- 314 M) / UAL (- 4.438 B)
  • 2008 Net Cash Provided by (Used in) Operating Activity: CAL (324 M) / UAL (1.239 B)
  • 2008 TRESM (Total Revenue per Equivalent Seat Mile) : CAL 17.52 / UAL 16.68
  • Average Fleet Age: CAL 10.6 / UAL 14.5
 
Doesn't matter - if Chase wants it.....it is a done deal.

Well, this was discussed today at our Union meeting~
Even if everyone wants it (except the CAL Pilots), there is a precedent in the past two mergers to look at-

If the pilot groups (especially CAL Pilots) aren't taken care of, this merger will not work and will follow in the footsteps of USAir and America West. A clusterFvck that has not shown the synergies and money making opportunities that it could have.

On the other hand.. If the pilot groups are included (and taken care of) as the pilots at Delta/NorthWest were, then the possibilities of a successful merger increase tenfold.

The elephant in the room are the labor unions, especially the Pilot Unions at both carriers and the fact that both are in contract negotiations.

I still think we are ways away from any merger.
Have the UAL Pilots given their management a contract proposal yet?
 
Well, this was discussed today at our Union meeting~
Even if everyone wants it (except the CAL Pilots), there is a precedent in the past two mergers to look at-

If the pilot groups (especially CAL Pilots) aren't taken care of, this merger will not work and will follow in the footsteps of USAir and America West. A clusterFvck that has not shown the synergies and money making opportunities that it could have.

On the other hand.. If the pilot groups are included (and taken care of) as the pilots at Delta/NorthWest were, then the possibilities of a successful merger increase tenfold.

The elephant in the room are the labor unions, especially the Pilot Unions at both carriers and the fact that both are in contract negotiations.

I still think we are ways away from any merger.
Have the UAL Pilots given their management a contract proposal yet?

I absolutely agree that if done properly it would enhance all of our career outlooks and if not it would be so cost prohibitive that it might kill the merged company as well. If it is done - we need to be fair to BOTH properties and get a combined contract with MASSIVE improvements to both scope and pay.

We have always seen things eye-to-eye in regards to union poilitics and that won't change anytime soon :) Who knows, I may slang gear for you again someday. The route network would be one of the best in the world and I think that will be needed to offset many battles in the future (MPL and cabotage being some of them)

We are sending proposals across and I amsure some are coming back but not what we would like...........ala Hulas-like company proposals.

In the meantime I am in Vietnam working on a contract and socking money away to be prepared to walk with you on the line once again......
 
If/When a merger announcement is made....the pilots won't be making it..and, an upgraded contract is a minor thing in order to make the merger happen in managements eyes. The pilot group really has an upper hand in making this go through.
 
A merger of the pilot groups would be cluster. If the UAL mec is as solid on protecting the 2x's furloughed pilots as they say, it will be ugly. But given the track record of the greed of UAL senior pilots, dangle a nice pay raise to screw the jr pilots and they will fold like a house of cards. I just want to see what happens. On a side note there has been a lot of discussion about protecting the furloughed, so something may be brewing on the horizon. If there was a merger how would prater fit in? would he have to step back and let the screwing process take its course? Remember in a good merger everyone gets screwed, no one is happy except the executives. This has been Tiltons dream and he will not leave until it happens. His contract states he would get 30 mil+ if it happens.
 
Prater also holds the enviable position of being the ALPA president who let UAL leave the fold. What do you think the UAL mec would do if UAL did not get what they wanted in a UAL/CAL merger? Prater is not about to let $20+M in dues walk out the door to an independent union. I hate to say it but the UAL pilots will make out better than the CAL pilots in a merger.
 
Prater also holds the enviable position of being the ALPA president who let UAL leave the fold. What do you think the UAL mec would do if UAL did not get what they wanted in a UAL/CAL merger? Prater is not about to let $20+M in dues walk out the door to an independent union. I hate to say it but the UAL pilots will make out better than the CAL pilots in a merger.

I hate to say it but just watch $20+M in dues walk out the door to an independent union if there is even a chance at CAL pilots getting screwed. What do you think the CAL MEC would do? It ain't the same airline as 1983 anymore. Nobody will make the same mistake as USAirways anymore. The dominated pilot group will decertify ALPA prior to binding arbitration.
 
They believe that United, struggling in an era of depressed industry revenues, could invigorate its market value and its competitiveness in a crowded market by joining with another domestic carrier.

Won't make a dime's worth of difference unless management is brought in that knows how to run a farking airline...
 
I hate to say it but just watch $20+M in dues walk out the door to an independent union if there is even a chance at CAL pilots getting screwed. What do you think the CAL MEC would do? It ain't the same airline as 1983 anymore. Nobody will make the same mistake as USAirways anymore. The dominated pilot group will decertify ALPA prior to binding arbitration.


I will be right there doing anything I can to get ALPA out of here if they screw us with UAL or with our contract. ALPA is on thin ice in my opinion and they need to EARN the money the take from us every month. This is their last chance.
 
A while back I believe CAL opened UAUA's books to consider the feasibility of a merger-- they closed it pretty quick then silence until now. I'm pretty sure the debt UAUA has piled on at the tune of $21 billion is not something CAL is looking for... But then again, it's the airline industry we're talking about here, right?
 
I will be right there doing anything I can to get ALPA out of here if they screw us with UAL or with our contract. ALPA is on thin ice in my opinion and they need to EARN the money the take from us every month. This is their last chance.

I got news for you, here is one UAL guy that would be on the band wagon to dump ALPA right along with you. Don,t believe the crap you read on hear about UAL guys looking to screw CO guys, or that we changed ALPA merger policy. I wish we had that much influence but reality is none of us do. Hopefully when it is all said and done both sides will be really pissed off, then it was done right.

I still fear that without the merger we are just going to end up getting pitted against eachother constantly, a management option that goes away with a merger.
 
I think this merger will go down this year. It just depends if Delta can turn a profit and start kicking our arses. If they do, then a merger announcement will happen shortly thereafter. But, if we can do a virtual merger....which they're doing right now.....and make a steady profit, a merger will never happen. The only thing that will happen is a whipsaw against both pilot groups. This is where we need to concentrate our efforts, not how we're going to get what's "ours". United pilots need to get ahold of their scope and we need to concentrate on DRASTIC changes in our contract. And if a merger does goes down, we need to all work together to improve this career for both pilot groups.
 
It appears today that UAL is making a leap to a 52 week high in stock price due to a recovery cited in all of the business markets it serves. I would think the new Delta will be making a profit very soon with it's market exposure at least twice that of UAL. My guess is a merger is on the way soon too. Either way good luck to all. In the end a merged company done the right way (if and only if) will be much more stable and give mainline pilots the appropriate pay, security and retirement. We must end the outsourcing! That's why I like CAL scope.
 
I think this merger will go down this year. It just depends if Delta can turn a profit and start kicking our arses. If they do, then a merger announcement will happen shortly thereafter. But, if we can do a virtual merger....which they're doing right now.....and make a steady profit, a merger will never happen. The only thing that will happen is a whipsaw against both pilot groups. This is where we need to concentrate our efforts, not how we're going to get what's "ours". United pilots need to get ahold of their scope and we need to concentrate on DRASTIC changes in our contract. And if a merger does goes down, we need to all work together to improve this career for both pilot groups.


Delta is a profitable company operationally, but the large loss stems from the oil hedging that went wrong. That cost a bundle. The merger has been very successful so far, and DL is starting to move planes around to maximize profit potential. Take away the hedges loss, and it would have been all positive numbers. That certainly wasn't a merger related problem, rather one guy rolling the dice it seems.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
It will take more than 1 quarters positive financial results before the merger frenzy begins.
Yes, I believe that once Delta shows a full year's profit, the merger talks will really go full bore.
The fact that CAL and UAL's operations are being co-located in many locations will only help the process.
But again, if an understanding between the two pilot groups isn't negotiated beforehand.. this merger won't work.

If the time comes where-
CAL management wants the merger,
UAL management wants the merger, and..
UAL Pilots was the merger, but
CAL Pilots do not want to merger-

You will see a media blitz where the USAir/AmericaWest merger is brought up, over and over again.

How much money are they making? How many jobs have been lost? How much return have the investors gotten on that deal?

Always
motch

PS> Beside the 2 pilot groups coming to an understanding, there has to be a new contract in hand for CAL pilots AND an incentive package ala Delta..
 




AirTran CEO Bob Fornaro told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution Tuesday that the discount carrier has lost flights and customers to a “much stronger” Delta during the past several years.

“Today, Delta is much stronger than the Delta we saw four or five years ago,” the AirTran exec said during the J.P. Morgan Aviation, Transportation & Defense Conference in New York. “They’ve been able to ultimately take back customers that we actually borrowed for a couple of years. They are a tough competitor.”

Fornaro said AirTran has reduced the number of flights it operates from Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, its largest hub, by more than 20%, from a high of 260 in 2008 to about 200 today.

“We were able to gain a lot of leisure and business travel from Delta,” in the years following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, which helped AirTran post strong profits in 2007, Fornaro told the AJC.

He credited Delta’s successful emergence from bankruptcy in 2007 and the 2008 merger as reasons for Delta’s resurgence.



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Delta is a profitable company operationally, but the large loss stems from the oil hedging that went wrong. That cost a bundle. The merger has been very successful so far, and DL is starting to move planes around to maximize profit potential. Take away the hedges loss, and it would have been all positive numbers. That certainly wasn't a merger related problem, rather one guy rolling the dice it seems.


Bye Bye--General Lee


Sorry General, just saying what our CEO has been saying in the press. As far as the merger goes, you couldn't be more correct. Your merger was well planned and everyone seems to be onboard. Hopefully we'll see the same results. I won't hold my breath....dynamics are way different. :(
 
Sorry General, just saying what our CEO has been saying in the press. As far as the merger goes, you couldn't be more correct. Your merger was well planned and everyone seems to be onboard. Hopefully we'll see the same results. I won't hold my breath....dynamics are way different. :(


Your CEO is getting a bit "cocky" in the press IMO (look at below article), but I am sure they are thinking about a UAL tie up. If they want it to go smoother than the USAir deal, they will give you a joint contract with big improvements before the SLI.



UPDATE 1-Continental CEO: We're 'big threat' to Delta

Tue Mar 9, 2010 12:38pm EST

* CEO says will watch "competitive dynamics" of industry

* Says Continental will "bulk up defensively" if needed
* Says it is "premature" to gauge success of Delta merger

NEW YORK, March 9 (Reuters) - Continental Airlines said its strength in Latin America, Asia and New York poses a "big threat" to its larger rival and former alliance partner Delta Air Lines.

Continental, the world's fifth-largest airline, was part of Delta's SkyTeam alliance until last October, when it quit the airline network following Delta's merger with Northwest, which formed the world's largest carrier.
"In our prior alliance, we were partners with somebody who wanted to kill us," Chief Executive Jeff Smisek said at a J.P Morgan conference on Tuesday. "And it was a lot like being married to a woman who wants to poison your food -- it's just generally not a good idea."


Alliances allow airlines to share pricing and flight information, as well as save on costs. Smisek said Continental's switch to Star Alliance was helping to drive passenger traffiic.


He added that Continental's operations in New York, Asia and Latin America were a looming threat to Delta's network.
"We're a growing threat to them in the Pacific," Smisek said. "You watch the fight over JAL and they were taking out their checkbook and spinning like drunken sailors."Delta ultimately lost its bid to fold JAL into SkyTeam to AMR Corp's American Airlines.

Continental's switch also brought it closer to United Airlines parent UAL Corp, which is a founding member of the Star Alliance. The two talked extensively about merging until talks broke off two years ago.
Continental has said it would prefer to stay independent, rather than merge with another airline. Smisek said the airline would continue to watch "the competitive dynamics" of the industry in the wake of Delta's merger with Northwest Airlines. He added that the merger so far has gone smoothly, although it is "premature" to gauge its success.

"When we chose not to merge with United, it was a point in time decision," Smisek said, adding that he voted against the merger at the time. "If we think it's in our best interest to bulk up defensively, we'll do so," Smisek said. "But I think it's premature to make that decision at this time." (Reporting by Deepa Seetharaman; editing by Gunna Dickson)



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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I will be right there doing anything I can to get ALPA out of here if they screw us...with our contract.

I get a good laugh out of guys that seem to believe there is some mysterious and grand ALPA cabal or illuminati or some collusive force at work that has control over a given pilot group.

The outcome of the CAL contract is ENTIRELY, 100% up to you, me, and the other 4600 of us.

I am ALPA. You are ALPA. We are "they."

The only screwing will be what we do to ourselves.

It was EXACTLY the same way with the IACP. It will be EXACTLY the same way with any other union. If the pilot group doesn't keep the ship upright, it don't matter what letters our union has.

For C'02 the ALPA resources were simply not used the way they should have been. The pilot group was disorganized, fractionalized and plagued with infighting, political wrangling and a level of arrogance. There were groups that tried in vain to utilize National resources and they were rebuffed, not by ALPA National, but rather by members of their own MEC and NC. To that end, the resources at National simply threw up their hands, because there was no saving the pilot group unless it did so itself. In the end, the pilot group capitulated to a wave of fear that was propogated by certain MEC and NC members who will try their darndest to blame it on "ALPA National" or tell you that we got a "great deal."

At the end of the day, it was the NC who tentatively agreed to the deal, the MEC who authorized it to go to the pilots for ratification, and 58% of the pilot group that got us where we are today.

And one more thing...if we continue the "tear the house down and rebuild" M.O. that CAL pilots have followed for the last 10+ years, we will get NOWHERE.
 
Anyone listen to the Smisek/Rowe JP Morgan conference call. They say Cal is at a disadvantage by not having 70 seaters due to scope. Having 70 seaters flown by mainline pilots isn't an option because the economics flip over if that happens. Also they are in negotiations with the pilots about the scope.

Link ....(26-27 min mark)

Cal guys/girls we must not give up on scope. F the A++ and the A+++. Let em merge if they want it. FUPM!

Email your reps and let them know.
 
Continental and Captain X-

Great Posts!

As you said, We are ALPA and We (at least most of the guys and gals I've spoken with) are not going to fold on EITHER Scope issues!

FUPM
Shut it Down~

Always
Motch
 
I get a good laugh out of guys that seem to believe there is some mysterious and grand ALPA cabal or illuminati or some collusive force at work that has control over a given pilot group....The outcome of the CAL contract is ENTIRELY, 100% up to you, me, and the other 4600 of us....I am ALPA. You are ALPA. We are "they."

The only screwing will be what we do to ourselves.

It was EXACTLY the same way with the IACP. It will be EXACTLY the same way with any other union. If the pilot group doesn't keep the ship upright, it don't matter what letters our union has.....And one more thing...if we continue the "tear the house down and rebuild" M.O. that CAL pilots have followed for the last 10+ years, we will get NOWHERE.
That pretty much sums it up. I think the union leadershp is light years ahead C02, but the pilot group hasn't budged. Monthly awards have massive amounts of non-flying credit waived, open time pickup is unabated, and the planes are on time. Hey, it's number one in employee satisfaction.

And, oh, submit your comments here to get the octopus off your face:
http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480a41a09

We can get it done!
 
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Your CEO is getting a bit "cocky" in the press IMO (look at below article), but I am sure they are thinking about a UAL tie up. If they want it to go smoother than the USAir deal, they will give you a joint contract with big improvements before the SLI.


Ahhh, which CEO isn't though. You don't think Anderson goes home and smirks at his greatness? Please. Granted, you're talking about CEO's, but you don't think Delta as an airline isn't cocky? I see so many billboards and commercials about the "World's Biggest Airline". "The World's Largest Premier Airline". So what's gonna happen if we merge and we become the biggest? Man, I'm concerned. What will the Deltoids do? The horror.....
:D
 
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