UAL/CAL Merger Buzz Article......(Again)

[motch]

You're worth more than that, Ben~

 

[whatitdoing?]

Jesus Franklin....you work for CAL?? I just tasted vomit.

 

[General Lee]

Your CEO is getting a bit "cocky" in the press IMO (look at below article), but I am sure they are thinking about a UAL tie up. If they want it to go smoother than the USAir deal, they will give you a joint contract with big improvements before the SLI.


Ahhh, which CEO isn't though. You don't think Anderson goes home and smirks at his greatness? Please. Granted, you're talking about CEO's, but you don't think Delta as an airline isn't cocky? I see so many billboards and commercials about the "World's Biggest Airline". "The World's Largest Premier Airline". So what's gonna happen if we merge and we become the biggest? Man, I'm concerned. What will the Deltoids do? The horror.....

Show me one post where RA states "My airline will beat up your airline..." Every airline CEO touts their airline, but not one says "Ummm, we are, ummm, going to, ummmm, threaten your airline, ummmmm." Sounds a bit cocky to me. And, can you dispute the fact that Delta is the biggest airline in the world, and carries the most INTL passengers to NYC? (CAL goes to NJ). But, CAL by a wide margin carries the MOST passengers to New Jersey. Dispute any of that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Anyone listen to the Smisek/Rowe JP Morgan conference call. They say Cal is at a disadvantage by not having 70 seaters due to scope. Having 70 seaters flown by mainline pilots isn't an option because the economics flip over if that happens. Also they are in negotiations with the pilots about the scope.

Link ....(26-27 min mark)

Cal guys/girls we must not give up on scope. F the A++ and the A+++. Let em merge if they want it. FUPM!

Email your reps and let them know.

WHATEVER you do, DON'T give up on the 70 seat scope. Don't do it. You can already see what is happening with the close to 70 seat Dash-8-400s and how they are taking your 737-500 routes up the NE. Don't allow it. Good luck to you guys.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Ben Franklin]

Jesus Franklin....you work for CAL?? I just tasted vomit.

My post is what most would call "humor" directed towards my distinguished colleague and co-worker, Captain X. Lighten up, Francis.

Sorry my humor flew over your head like a 70 seater in UAL colors (<----that one was directed at you).

I find it funny that I have to clarify my position on here, especially to those who know me, but:

No scope? No contract.
FUPM





Sincerely,

B. Franklin
IACP
STARTEAM
ALPA "YES" VOTER
XJTP2P
XJTSPC
CALP2P
FUPM

 

[Ben Franklin]

Read between the lines...

http://www.iata.org/pressroom/airlines-international/february-2010/02.htm


What about the short-haul US domestic markets, which are important feeders to the international routes?

Continental Express is our regional jet operation and Continental Connection is our turboprop aircraft feed. We’ll continue to adjust the size of both depending on the markets and the demand.

Over time, you’ll see us rely less on regional jets. As we grow, we’ll put mainline jets on some of those routes. On the shorter routes, you’ll see us use more Bombardier Q400 turboprops, because they are very attractive aircraft from a unit cost basis. You can think of them as the same trip cost as a 50-seat regional jet, except the turboprop has 74 seats. The aircraft itself is very comfortable and has much lower noise than older turboprops. For a short-haul mission the Q400 is not much slower than a RJ and it has significantly lower unit costs. In the future, I think you’ll see us adding more Q400s and keeping fewer 50-seat RJs in our network.

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Ben Franklin]

I'm sure all the negotiators and MEC's have this info, too:

http://www.iata.org/NR/rdonlyres/2C...7AC86/0/Airline_Labour_Cost_Share_Feb2010.pdf

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Ben Franklin]

A good read when you have to commute on a 70 seater:

http://www.iata.org/NR/rdonlyres/B05ECC6A-C146-4C76-807B-CF5D4DB3D131/0/nerafinalreport.pdf

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Ben Franklin]

"Legacy" airlines need to be more efficient when directly competing with LCC's?.. ok... it's summarized here:

http://www.iata.org/NR/rdonlyres/09...00_Airline_Cost_PerformanceSummary_Report.pdf

Interesting quote from the summary for those "legacy" pilots who don't want to point, click and read:

Cost efficiency is critical for an airline’s ability to compete and survive. Yet not every airline should seek to be the lowest cost operator. There are still many competitive advantages in an efficiently delivered, high quality network model.

FUPM

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[BID]

Scope relief at CAL, I sure hope not. This is one area where the CAL pilot group is somewhat unified. However, it will not be easy. Off the top of my head, Delta has 76 seat jets, and United has an unlimited number of 70 seat aircraft. Our management wants the same deal.

I remember sitting in the jump seat on Delta, pleading with the pilots, please, please don't give up on scope relief. I guess the bankruptcy was just too much pressure for your pilot group.

I recently read where SkyWest was planning on getting the C series aircraft. The economics just make too much sense, said the article. SkyWest wants this airplane really bad, guess they got a taste of the big RJ and want to go bigger. I would prefer to stay under this contract before I vote for any regional airline to fly 50 seat plus regional jets.

 

[contrail67]

Scope relief at CAL, I sure hope not. This is one area where the CAL pilot group is somewhat unified. However, it will not be easy. Off the top of my head, Delta has 76 seat jets, and United has an unlimited number of 70 seat aircraft. Our management wants the same deal.

I remember sitting in the jump seat on Delta, pleading with the pilots, please, please don't give up on scope relief. I guess the bankruptcy was just too much pressure for your pilot group.

I recently read where SkyWest was planning on getting the C series aircraft. The economics just make too much sense, said the article. SkyWest wants this airplane really bad, guess they got a taste of the big RJ and want to go bigger. I would prefer to stay under this contract before I vote for any regional airline to fly 50 seat plus regional jets.

Scope hopefully will get shoved down their throat....If the skywest guys want bigger?...THEN APPLY AT THE MAJORS...PERIOD!

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Hey Skywest.......you guys can piss off! OVER MY DEAD BODY WILL FLY ANYTHING OVER 70 seats.

 

[eaglesview]

Easy there guppy, you are going to peak way to early. It's not just skywest.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Show me one post where RA states "My airline will beat up your airline..." Every airline CEO touts their airline, but not one says "Ummm, we are, ummm, going to, ummmm, threaten your airline, ummmmm." Sounds a bit cocky to me. And, can you dispute the fact that Delta is the biggest airline in the world, and carries the most INTL passengers to NYC? (CAL goes to NJ). But, CAL by a wide margin carries the MOST passengers to New Jersey. Dispute any of that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

So Smisek said, "My airline will beat up your airline"?? Sure, he's confident and abit cocky, but he didn't say anything that wasn't true. Delta didn't even allow us to be a full partner. I'm willing to bet alot of this has to do with our ex execs at Delta now settling personal vendettas. Delta wants to stomp us. By the way, NYC is considered Newark, JFK, and LGA. Hell, even your own schedule screens say (NYC) Newark on them. As far as carrying the most passengers to NYC, I don't know. But the dead Nigerians that keep dropping out of your gearwheels don't count. They have to walk off the plane and be paying.............

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Easy there guppy, you are going to peak way to early. It's not just skywest.

Yes you are correct....it's also the other 10 vendors/scum on the ual expresss side.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

I think the general is gonna get stomped and majorly demoted if there is a merger btw CAL and UAL....LOL!

 

[eaglesview]

Yes you are correct....it's also the other 10 vendors/scum on the ual expresss side.

There you go, now you are pacing yourself. Well done.

 

[General Lee]

I think the general is gonna get stomped and majorly demoted if there is a merger btw CAL and UAL....LOL!

Say what? I am gonna get a huge tub of popcorn and watch a combined UAL and CAL crumble, looking a lot like the USAir East/West debacle. I can't wait. How much debt does UAL have right now again? Hey Yuppy, are you a UAL pilot? You are really going to love that SLI process.

From Jumpilot:

How do CAL and UAL stack up? Following are some relevant numbers. Particularly alarming are the facts that: UAL burned through $1.239 billion in cash just to continue operating in 2008, UAL has net tangible assets of negative $5.117 billion, and UAL's average fleet age is 14.5 years:

• Market Cap 05 Jan 2010: CAL 2.85 B / UAL 2.32 B
• Total Liabilities: CAL 12.150 B / UAL 20.992 B
• Net Tangible Assets: CAL (- 348 M) / UAL (- 5.117 B)
• 2008 Operating Loss: CAL (- 314 M) / UAL (- 4.438 B)
• 2008 Net Cash Provided by (Used in) Operating Activity: CAL (324 M) / UAL (1.239 B)
• 2008 TRESM (Total Revenue per Equivalent Seat Mile) : CAL 17.52 / UAL 16.68
• Average Fleet Age: CAL 10.6 / UAL 14.5

All I can say is WOW.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

So Smisek said, "My airline will beat up your airline"?? Sure, he's confident and abit cocky, but he didn't say anything that wasn't true. Delta didn't even allow us to be a full partner. I'm willing to bet alot of this has to do with our ex execs at Delta now settling personal vendettas. Delta wants to stomp us. By the way, NYC is considered Newark, JFK, and LGA. Hell, even your own schedule screens say (NYC) Newark on them. As far as carrying the most passengers to NYC, I don't know. But the dead Nigerians that keep dropping out of your gearwheels don't count. They have to walk off the plane and be paying.............

Yeah, ok, sure, EWR is part of NYC.........yeah, ok, sure, foohgetaboutit! You can advertise that all you want, it doesn't make it true. And, at least those Nigerians (or parts of them) made it to a real NYC airport, whereas all of your flights to EWR are canncelled thanks to your CEO. But, whatever you do, don't let your planes fall apart and blow up another plane, like a Concorde. How much did that fiasco cost you and your insurance company? Riiiiiight.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Ben Franklin]

How much did that fiasco cost you and your insurance company? Riiiiiight.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Probably about the same as a fuel tank farm in Dallas... but probably a little more than the approach lights in LGA (that's in NYC, btw).

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Ben Franklin]

Say what? I am gonna get a huge tub of popcorn and watch a combined UAL and CAL crumble, looking a lot like the USAir East/West debacle. I can't wait. How much debt does UAL have right now again? Hey Yuppy, are you a UAL pilot? You are really going to love that SLI process.

From Jumpilot:

How do CAL and UAL stack up? Following are some relevant numbers. Particularly alarming are the facts that: UAL burned through $1.239 billion in cash just to continue operating in 2008, UAL has net tangible assets of negative $5.117 billion, and UAL's average fleet age is 14.5 years:

• Market Cap 05 Jan 2010: CAL 2.85 B / UAL 2.32 B
• Total Liabilities: CAL 12.150 B / UAL 20.992 B
• Net Tangible Assets: CAL (- 348 M) / UAL (- 5.117 B)
• 2008 Operating Loss: CAL (- 314 M) / UAL (- 4.438 B)
• 2008 Net Cash Provided by (Used in) Operating Activity: CAL (324 M) / UAL (1.239 B)
• 2008 TRESM (Total Revenue per Equivalent Seat Mile) : CAL 17.52 / UAL 16.68
• Average Fleet Age: CAL 10.6 / UAL 14.5

All I can say is WOW.


Bye Bye--General Lee

DAL market cap (as of MAR 10 2010): $10,450,000,000 (cal + ual combined market cap for same date: $6,270,000,000)
DAL total liabilities: $43,290,000,000
DAL net tangible assets: ($14,371,000,000)
DAL 2008 operating loss: ($1,707,000,000)
DAL average airframe age: 15.4 years

Yeah... WOW... I hope you guys can make it beyond tomorrow at 10:15am with those numbers.

It's also worth mentioning that CAL and UAL, independently each collect roughly an average 5% more in revenue per ticket sold than Delta Airlines. (source: DOT)

WOW, is right.

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[chppr5]

DAL market cap (as of MAR 10 2010): $10,450,000,000 (cal + ual combined market cap for same date: $6,270,000,000)
DAL total liabilities: $43,290,000,000
DAL net tangible assets: ($14,371,000,000)
DAL 2008 operating loss: ($1,707,000,000)
DAL average airframe age: 15.4 years

Yeah... WOW... I hope you guys can make it beyond tomorrow at 10:15am with those numbers.

It's also worth mentioning that CAL and UAL, independently each collect roughly an average 5% more in revenue per ticket sold than Delta Airlines. (source: DOT)

WOW, is right.

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

Now THAT'S funny s#*t right there!!!

 

[contrail67]

Say what? I am gonna get a huge tub of popcorn and watch a combined UAL and CAL crumble, looking a lot like the USAir East/West debacle. I can't wait. How much debt does UAL have right now again? Hey Yuppy, are you a UAL pilot? You are really going to love that SLI process.

From Jumpilot:

How do CAL and UAL stack up? Following are some relevant numbers. Particularly alarming are the facts that: UAL burned through $1.239 billion in cash just to continue operating in 2008, UAL has net tangible assets of negative $5.117 billion, and UAL's average fleet age is 14.5 years:

• Market Cap 05 Jan 2010: CAL 2.85 B / UAL 2.32 B
• Total Liabilities: CAL 12.150 B / UAL 20.992 B
• Net Tangible Assets: CAL (- 348 M) / UAL (- 5.117 B)
• 2008 Operating Loss: CAL (- 314 M) / UAL (- 4.438 B)
• 2008 Net Cash Provided by (Used in) Operating Activity: CAL (324 M) / UAL (1.239 B)
• 2008 TRESM (Total Revenue per Equivalent Seat Mile) : CAL 17.52 / UAL 16.68
• Average Fleet Age: CAL 10.6 / UAL 14.5

All I can say is WOW.


Bye Bye--General Lee

The General will probably be helping throw away all of those signs and advertising saying they are the largest airline in the world!

 

[contrail67]

Yeah, ok, sure, EWR is part of NYC.........yeah, ok, sure, foohgetaboutit! You can advertise that all you want, it doesn't make it true. And, at least those Nigerians (or parts of them) made it to a real NYC airport, whereas all of your flights to EWR are canncelled thanks to your CEO. But, whatever you do, don't let your planes fall apart and blow up another plane, like a Concorde. How much did that fiasco cost you and your insurance company? Riiiiiight.


Bye Bye--General Lee

At least they are not landing on the taxiway....or missing airports.

 

[IAHERJ]

At least they are not landing on the taxiway....or missing airports.

Ummmm, actually, we did that in 2006 or 2007, in EWR(across the river from NYC)....oops

 

[Shrek]

Scope relief at CAL, I sure hope not. This is one area where the CAL pilot group is somewhat unified. However, it will not be easy. Off the top of my head, Delta has 76 seat jets, and United has an unlimited number of 70 seat aircraft. Our management wants the same deal.

I remember sitting in the jump seat on Delta, pleading with the pilots, please, please don't give up on scope relief. I guess the bankruptcy was just too much pressure for your pilot group.

I recently read where SkyWest was planning on getting the C series aircraft. The economics just make too much sense, said the article. SkyWest wants this airplane really bad, guess they got a taste of the big RJ and want to go bigger. I would prefer to stay under this contract before I vote for any regional airline to fly 50 seat plus regional jets.

You are ABSOLUTELY right. Your scope section is your crown jewel of your contract - THAT will be retained in the joint contract - or in yours if there is no merger.....:beer:

Just look what MGT did to us after our scope "changes" during bankruptcy. You have the rare luxery of seeing your future if you relax your scope.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

At least they are not landing on the taxiway....or missing airports.

Well, i don't work for either carrier, and don't mean to interrupt you guys Rant fun...but, guess this is the appropriate time to say that everyone know what 'DELTA' stands for:


Don't Ever Land There Again

Hey, i know its an old joke, but still Funny. And, well, probably get the deltoids all spooled up, as they have NO sense of humor, if the joke is about their 'beloved delta' . . . oh well.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Well, i don't work for either carrier, and don't mean to interrupt you guys Rant fun...but, guess this is the appropriate time to say that everyone know what 'DELTA' stands for:


Don't Ever Land There Again

Hey, i know its an old joke, but still Funny. And, well, probably get the deltoids all spooled up, as they have NO sense of humor, if the joke is about their 'beloved delta' . . . oh well.

I thought it was Doesn't Ever Leave The Airport.

 

[eaglesview]

Your both wrong . it,s Don't Excpect Luggage To Arrive

 

[General Lee]

Probably about the same as a fuel tank farm in Dallas... but probably a little more than the approach lights in LGA (that's in NYC, btw).

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

Thanks for killing the Concorde. Yes, you guys did it. It sure was fun to watch, until your DC10 killed the whole program. Did DL's L1011 deal do that to the L10? Nope. Try to dispute that.


Bye Bye--General Lee