Is CAL acting responsibly while serving the traveling public?

[zonker]

"Negotiating capital"--great description of leverage. Problem is there just isn't enough of that to get started. Like the aphorism "it takes money to make money," there has to be some seed money to get started. There is none.

The company has successfully managed to keep the employees so flat out defeated that people end up fighting over scraps. Mostly what has happened the last two contracts is the senior have preserved as much as they've been able to for themselves at the expense of work rules (PBS, vacation that really isn't time off, annual sim events on your days off, half pay until 5th year, no medical to start, etc), disproportionally affecting the bottom of the pilot group.

This was possible because when the contracts were negotiated junior pilots were not on the property due to furlough so they couldn't influence what affected them. What is already an abysmal contract is x2 for them. And the fact that members of the negiating committees for the last two contracts are now working for the company speaks for itself.

If they are on the property during the next vote, it could be ugly. And who could blame them. One group took the scraps twice; when they get their chance the junior folks may just take it back. One example: the lump sum is a negotiated, contractual item. They have zero in the A Plan so they could very well cast deciding votes to get rid of the lump sum and have only the annuity.

Taking care of the junior people in the group is a strategic investment in the future. Reference UAL in Flying the Line. They got the guys in training to not cross the line and then took care of them afterwards. These new guys in turn supported the senior guys in future contracts.

Couldn't paint a more opposite picture in a group that literally steals from each other in ever more imaginitive ways. Last year two dozen got divorced so they could get the lump sum (distributed by the court in the divorce settlement), but then turned right around and got remarried. Seems slick until you realize the A Fund is the pilots' money, not the company's. Yet another way to take from one group to "get mine."

The whole culture of open time pickup, waiving vacation, picking up the slack for the company while guys are on furlough . . . it won't end well.

Don't forget the greatest theft of all (Age 65) was foisted upon us by a CAL pilot.

 

[densoo]

Don't forget the greatest theft of all (Age 65) was foisted upon us by a CAL pilot.

Heard on the TA tours:

-- Two concessionary contracts ago: "We've got to overweight the senior guys to protect their retirement. Got to protect the A-Fund--your A Fund eventually. You junior guys will get yours next round."

Then 9/11 happened. Sorry about that but you're all furloughed, displaced to other bases and are now commuters, or on reserve. Well, stuff happens. Who could have known.

-- One concessionary contract ago: "They're threatening bankruptcy and they're going to take away the A Fund. Got to protect it for the senior guys, but you get none. No more A Fund at all. But, you junior guys will get yours next round because the senior guys will be retired.

Age 65 passes. You'll all be stagnated for five years, furloughs because no one planned on having these extra pilots. Stuff happens. Who could have known.

-- This concessionary contract: "We've got to strengthen to retirement plan because the senior guys lost so much since the lump sum is now calculated from age 65 instead of age 60; five lost years of annuity equivalency. We'll tweak your pay some, but it won't matter because you're all past those pay scales now anyway."

Merger with UAL. Stuff happens. Who could have known.

-- Next concessionary contract: :The bottom of third of the combined pilot list isn't on the property due to furlough. Let's just rob the junior guys (again) and make whole what we senior guys have lost, lo these many years."

And on it goes.

Twenty years from now today's junior guys will be pulling the same stuff. "Got to be made whole after being robbed all these years." They'll have learned from the masters.

 

[SFR]

Continental Airlines schedules international 2 pilot reserve crews for up to 17:30hrs of duty time, and once you report to the airport your time resets.
Safe?

Got a delay, mx or deicing… Guess what you are still good to go… You would be surprise at how many 18-20 hours duty days 2 pilot reserve crews fly at CAL…

It is the responsibility of both the air carrier and the pilot to prevent fatigue, not only by following the regulations, but also by acting responsibly while serving the traveling public. This means taking into consideration weather conditions, air traffic, the health of each pilot, and any other personal circumstances that may affect a pilot’s performance.

http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=6762

I don't care if CAL gives me a 48 hour duty period. When I get tired, I am fatigued. Period, end of story (it is possible that it could happen in a 5 hour duty period, etc..., but I would not have been prudent in my rest duties if that is the case).

I have no problem calling fatigue if I am truly fatigued. In your story, I probably would be.


No need to complain about it. Simply call fatigued. Beleive me, if pilots do that the long periods like that will stop.

Be sure you are truly fatigued if you do play that card. Don't use it for pride or any other reason.

 

[densoo]

I don't care if CAL gives me a 48 hour duty period. When I get tired, I am fatigued. Period, end of story (it is possible that it could happen in a 5 hour duty period, etc..., but I would not have been prudent in my rest duties if that is the case).

I have no problem calling fatigue if I am truly fatigued. In your story, I probably would be.


No need to complain about it. Simply call fatigued. Beleive me, if pilots do that the long periods like that will stop.

Be sure you are truly fatigued if you do play that card. Don't use it for pride or any other reason.

Fewer pilots will call in fatigued or sick when they're going to lose thousands of dollars by doing so. To think otherwise is simple sticking your head in the sand.

The company can shout as loud as they want about safety and no compromise and will say "safety first" until the congressional hearing, but when they put a disincentive like this in place, there can no surprise to the outcome. See the Colgan accident.

The only solution is to have a limited number no-fault "personal days" like many major companies have. Call in and say you won't be there, no reason necessary, fully pay protected. The incentive to be there when you shouldn't be there will be completely eliminated. No loss of pay, no trip to the CPO.

No company will do this because the MBAs understand motivations--people will work when they shouldn't when you don't pay them--but not safety.

 

[waveflyer]

why I thank god I have left aviation.

This is a shame- good luck QT- but the CAL contract has its most shameful victim- those were good boobs in the flight deck- not saggy old flight attendant boobs only seen for 5 minutes on a restroom break- but consistent semi-permanent boobs- juggling in every ripple of turbulence, swaying with every turn-
forced out by a sh!tty contract that you all hate. Sad. Very sad. Boobs in the flight deck are a good thing- but kudos to those talented and thoughtful enough to get out... Hoping the grass is truly greener, and grateful ...

 

[Sandhawk]

This is a shame- good luck QT- but the CAL contract has its most shameful victim- those were good boobs in the flight deck- not saggy old flight attendant boobs only seen for 5 minutes on a restroom break- but consistent semi-permanent boobs- juggling in every ripple of turbulence, swaying with every turn-
forced out by a sh!tty contract that you all hate. Sad. Very sad. Boobs in the flight deck are a good thing- but kudos to those talented and thoughtful enough to get out... Hoping the grass is truly greener, and grateful ...

This post is useless without photos.........

:laugh:

 

[mamba20]

Heard on the TA tours:

-- Two concessionary contracts ago: "We've got to overweight the senior guys to protect their retirement. Got to protect the A-Fund--your A Fund eventually. You junior guys will get yours next round."

Then 9/11 happened. Sorry about that but you're all furloughed, displaced to other bases and are now commuters, or on reserve. Well, stuff happens. Who could have known.

-- One concessionary contract ago: "They're threatening bankruptcy and they're going to take away the A Fund. Got to protect it for the senior guys, but you get none. No more A Fund at all. But, you junior guys will get yours next round because the senior guys will be retired.

Age 65 passes. You'll all be stagnated for five years, furloughs because no one planned on having these extra pilots. Stuff happens. Who could have known.

-- This concessionary contract: "We've got to strengthen to retirement plan because the senior guys lost so much since the lump sum is now calculated from age 65 instead of age 60; five lost years of annuity equivalency. We'll tweak your pay some, but it won't matter because you're all past those pay scales now anyway."

Merger with UAL. Stuff happens. Who could have known.

-- Next concessionary contract: :The bottom of third of the combined pilot list isn't on the property due to furlough. Let's just rob the junior guys (again) and make whole what we senior guys have lost, lo these many years."

And on it goes.

Twenty years from now today's junior guys will be pulling the same stuff. "Got to be made whole after being robbed all these years." They'll have learned from the masters.

Screw the A fund. Its time for the junior guys to get theirs.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Screw the A fund. Its time for the junior guys to get theirs.

WHOA. Easy there Killer.

That's not constructive.
Vote that way if you want but keep that kind of stuff to yourself.

In related news though...

Seems our MEC has warmed up to relaxing our scope clause to allow for "Joint Venture". I myself am now even more skeptical of the idea. I am a little dense (puttin it mildly) but how would this benefit all pilots at CAL? I don't want to see the out going MEC officers and most of the NC jump the fence to mgmt after this idea gets sold to us. Sorry for the ignorance but...

 

[Ben Franklin]

Continental Airlines schedules international 2 pilot reserve crews for up to 17:30hrs of duty time, and once you report to the airport your time resets.
Safe?

Got a delay, mx or deicing… Guess what you are still good to go… You would be surprise at how many 18-20 hours duty days 2 pilot reserve crews fly at CAL…

Which international city pair is scheduled at 17:30 of duty for 2 pilots?

Above, you say, "...you are still good to go". You're only good to go at 19:31 of duty or greater (international) at your option - you can refuse the flight in the case of your duty going over 19:30 on a 2 pilot international flight.

Are you telling guys to waive this provision in their contract during negotiations to help management achieve success on a 20 hour duty period?

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Ex737Driver]

WHOA. Easy there Killer.

That's not constructive.
Vote that way if you want but keep that kind of stuff to yourself.

In related news though...

Seems our MEC has warmed up to relaxing our scope clause to allow for "Joint Venture". I myself am now even more skeptical of the idea. I am a little dense (puttin it mildly) but how would this benefit all pilots at CAL? I don't want to see the out going MEC officers and most of the NC jump the fence to mgmt after this idea gets sold to us. Sorry for the ignorance but...

Source(s) or rumor? Just curious as it would appear that with the JV we seem to have grasped them at the base of their "snardlies".

 

[flygirlqt]

This is a shame- good luck QT- but the CAL contract has its most shameful victim- those were good boobs in the flight deck- not saggy old flight attendant boobs only seen for 5 minutes on a restroom break- but consistent semi-permanent boobs- juggling in every ripple of turbulence, swaying with every turn-
forced out by a sh!tty contract that you all hate. Sad. Very sad. Boobs in the flight deck are a good thing- but kudos to those talented and thoughtful enough to get out... Hoping the grass is truly greener, and grateful ...

That was funny and thanks for the well wishes. I am seeing light at the end of the tunnel for my second year in law school.

p.s.

My boobs used to fill a Hooters T-Shirt As a added bonus the short pants still fit.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Source(s) or rumor? Just curious as it would appear that with the JV we seem to have grasped them at the base of their "snardlies".

More hearsay than anything else.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

Did you read the union blastmail from Friday? Best explanation I've seen so far. Unfortunately I believe mgt would rather destroy this company via a merger with UAL than allow industry standard working conditions for their pilots for the first time since 1983.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Denying Continental pilots industry standard is business as usual for management. Continental pilots not fighting for industry standard is business as usual for Contiental pilots going on 27 years now.

Continental management walked from the UAL merger last year because of their labor advantage. UAL was easy picking at the time but Continental knew it was only a short term advantage compared to the long term advantage it has always had against UAL.

Continental is the legacy slave ship and the prisoners don't know any different after so long.

Continental sucks. Has always sucked. And always will suck.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Did you read the union blastmail from Friday? Best explanation I've seen so far. Unfortunately I believe mgt would rather destroy this company via a merger with UAL than allow industry standard working conditions for their pilots for the first time since 1983.

I have now.