For you ALPA bashers

[BILL LUMBERG]

(The preceeding statement is NA when competing routes are flown by 20-yr-old CRJs btw....)

No truer words spoken....I agree...RJ's Suck (so does MESA....I couldn't resist)!!

Good luck with any union drive even if it's not ALPA....you may need representation sooner than later while Blue thinks his bed is lined with Barger's promises, he's really just turning tricks for him.......

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Just who do you think a union is going to favor? The senior guys or the junior ones? So, in fact, if I were looking after my own bum, maybe I would be pushing for that ever so coveted union pin... BTW, we have industry-leading 190 pay now...Isn't Airtran still looking for a contract after 5 years? Ask a CAL pilot how satisfied they are with their contracts. Do they get pay-protected for precancelled flights? How good are the paychecks and benefits at Spirit and Allegiant? How many are being furloughed at UPS? I could go on...

Industry leading 190 pay??? YGBSM?!?!? That's like bragging about being the best football team in Siberia!!! Who gives a $hit? you and Usair fly them, and now the tools at Republic are.

Let's see....worst economy since the twenties. Steepest dropoff of pax revenue since 9/11. No Credit available for anybody....people AND corporations. Maybe these are the reasons the contracts have been drug out by management. I would rather wake up every morning knowing my work rules than letting some 8 dollar an hour phone jockey scheduler dictate them to me.....

Good Luck Blue......pull up the ladder cuz it's all about you!!!

 

[Dizel8]

BTW, we have industry-leading 190 pay now...

What else do we have that is industry leading, or for that matter, that is even PSIA?

This company has been foot dragging for months on any other changes, heck, I would argue they have been foot dragging for years.

I would almost argue, that the jetblue pilots would have been better off financially had we been working under the AAI contract as opposed to our wonderfull PEA. From just a quick read, I can tell, their pay was higher, up untill only recently, the retirement vehicle was better!

As for how long it has taken AAI, is that due to the union or is it due to the fact, that to a company, the longer they drag out negotaitions, the more money they save. You must be clueless if you don't get that fact.

As for furloughs, since the union doesn't hire, it can't fire. Manning decisions are made by the company, not by the union.

Not to be harsh, but you really have to open your eyes and try to understand the game, sadly, you appear to believe in management rhetoric!

 

[Dan Roman]

Just who do you think a union is going to favor? The senior guys or the junior ones? So, in fact, if I were looking after my own bum, maybe I would be pushing for that ever so coveted union pin... BTW, we have industry-leading 190 pay now...Isn't Airtran still looking for a contract after 5 years? Ask a CAL pilot how satisfied they are with their contracts. Do they get pay-protected for precancelled flights? How good are the paychecks and benefits at Spirit and Allegiant? How many are being furloughed at UPS? I could go on...

Blue, let me start out that I am not bashing you or Jet Blue, I think it's funny that no one seems to want to acknowledge the fact that Jet Blue is the only airline that doesn't outsource RJ flying. You guys did that right. But I don't think your comparisons hold water. Every airline is different and goes through many business cycles and many changes in management teams. The airlines you mentioned are at a diferent stage, but they would all be even worse off without ALPA. It was ALPA that got CO their greatest gains since Lorenzo raped them. Any problems they have now would be far worse without ALPA. I don't think you believe if Air Tran got rid of ALPA their CEO would give them a raise. He would, of course unilaterely cut their pay and benefits and increase the companies profits and management bonus's. Seems to me Jet Blue is doing pretty good right now. The one thing for sure is that will change at some point. It may do even better and it will have hard times at some point. Might be in 5 years or it might be in 15, but your's and everyone else's career there would be better off if you were ALPA and had a proactive pilot group like you appear to have. ALPA is an excellent vehicle for protecting the integrity of the profession through good times and bad. Of course it's not perfect, but without a union you will, at some point wish you had one. I was at People Express for a couple years. At one point everyone there thought management had a better plan and would take care of them. It started out that way too, with great profit sharing and stock options. It went south real fast. Trying the non-union, let's all work together for the sake of all our futures doesn't last, never has and never will. Even SWA realizes that. They would be be making way less if they had stayed non union. It's a shame we need unions in this country, but then it's an even bigger shame we have so many corporate execs that are so greedy and sadly enough there are some pretty incompetent ones too. One's that will make mistakes and will leave the employees holding the bag while they leave with a bonus in pocket and go to another airline. There are good and bad managers out there, you will encounter both, but again,a union can protect you from the potentially devastating effect of stupid management decisions. Without unions the gap between the workers and top management would be far greater than the already obscene level we have in this country.

 

[Dan Roman]

OK I got long winded, but all those airlines you mentioned would be far worse of if they did not not have ALPA trying to protect them. In fact, if our industry never had ALPA we would ALL (including Jet Blue) be working for less and the airlines would be less safe than they are now had management not had the benefit of someone looking out for something other than just increasing the bottom line.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Dan-

Good posts but I am afraid that you are singing to the wrong choir.... Trying to convince the haters is like trying to tell a Grand Dragon that blacks are all right.

Unions including ALPA are simply expected to provide a good contract, etc. For example, when a pax buys a ticket on your airline they expect good pilots. (Hence the Colgan BUF fiasco). Your post would be akin to a Hawaiian Capt coming out of the cockpit looking for praise and accolades for safely flying pax from HNL to LAX. The pax paid for and expect good airmanship.

For comedic value how about a Capt coming out of the flightdeck like a football player who just scored a TD doing a chicken dance and spiking his hat or Jepps. "Yeah, in your face! How do you like me now! Not in our house!!!"

Since ALPA is expected to provide a good contract, when they do, in your case, there is no cause for recognition. Expectations were simply met. When they do not, then all hell breaks loose, despite reality.

The problem with the haters is they operate on a platform of ignorance and irresponsibility. They refuse to get educated on the issues and leave the ownership of their profession to others. What is the difference between one union pilot who steps up to the plate to volunteer and another who does nothing but sneer, chide and demand entitlement?


Nonetheless, I am glad your pilot group has a good CBA. Enjoy it, protect it.

 

[Turtle21]

It's interesting that a good contract is attributed to ALPA and a bad one is attributed to the MEC.

That is the ALPA way! They get the glory, we get the guilt. And they are comfy wit dat. Maybe Rez and PC can jump in here and tell us how things will be better for us if we just get involved. I agree.. vote... VOTE ALPO OFF THE PROPERTY! We did.

 

[Dan Roman]

That is the ALPA way! They get the glory, we get the guilt. And they are comfy wit dat. Maybe Rez and PC can jump in here and tell us how things will be better for us if we just get involved. I agree.. vote... VOTE ALPO OFF THE PROPERTY! We did.

So how's that USAPy thingy thing working out? Sorry, I could resist after your other post.

 

[Dan Roman]

Dan-

Trying to convince the haters is like trying to tell a Grand Dragon that blacks are all right.

.

True, my feeling is the inflexible haters are a small majority and most people are open minded and in fact do listen to and are interested in various viewpoints. I think a lot of people read, but don't post.
I recently saw a saying that is applicable to so many things and it sums up the haters perfectly.

"Perception isn't how things are, it's how you are"

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

True, my feeling is the inflexible haters are a small majority and most people are open minded and in fact do listen to and are interested in various viewpoints. I think a lot of people read, but don't post.
I recently saw a saying that is applicable to so many things and it sums up the haters perfectly.

"Perception isn't how things are, it's how you are"

The haters are a small minority, however, for the same reason you (and I) appeal to 'most people who are open minded', the haters use FI and flightdecks (a captive audience) to validate their illogical hatred by trying to influence others. To be fair, you did goad the haters with the thread title, whereas the thread title could have stated 'ALPA helps HAL pilots gain new CBA' or the like.

Without a doubt, it is a weak character that uses a moniker message board to spread hate and populist drivel.... but some are attracted to it. Those who have allowed themselves to be owned by puerile wit and logical fallacies easily gravitate to the haters finding value in what they say..... In the end it allows them shun responsibility and ownership not only for their own lives and career but the profession as well....

 

[Dan Roman]

Good point about the goading, I didn't even think of it, but you are right. Anyway, gotta go and fill up some buckets with drinking water, we just had a Tsunami warning here. I may not have to fly to PDX today!

 

[flygirlqt]

It was ALPA that got CO their greatest gains since Lorenzo raped them. Any problems they have now would be far worse without ALPA.

ALPA's pos02 contract was delivered to us by liars and thieves and was a disgrace to the profession. It was by far and large a giant step backwards for the CAL pilots. To even think that ALPA has made any gains on the property is a joke.

 

[Turtle21]

So how's that USAPy thingy thing working out? Sorry, I could resist after your other post.

Very well.

 

[J and E's Daddy]

Your union is as only as strong as its membership. For those of you who hate ALPA, nobody is forcing you to be a member. You still have to pay shop fees, and your work rules are still covered under your respective CBA, though.
ALPA has screwed me over. That is why they got my job back from a wrongful termination a few years ago . And when I lost my medical, is was ALPA aeromedical that went to bat for me and helped me re-obtain my medical.
ALPA is not the supreme savior of this profession. Only WE, as pilots are. When we had pilots paying for training or taking jobs with substandard pay, things got bad. If we continue, then things would NEVER get better. During the middle 2000's, many regionals took deep concessions for growth. What if, every regional grew a set of b*lls and said "No concessions for growth." Trust me, it would not have degraded our profession as much as it did. And I am sure the race to the bottom would never have started. ALPA can not control whether an airline furloughs, run under staffed or shuts down, but they can lobby the idiots in DC who constantly try to further degrade the profession.
Now I know many of you will not agree and will probably bash me, but that's ok. As long as you do not threaten me or my family.
But look who goes to fight for our profession on capital hill. Who squares off the the TSA everytime they come up with some senseless security directive that affects pilots. Who is being a bane to congress and senate on bankruptcy and pension reform? Who is still harassing the senate over flight time and duty times and rest?
I do not necessarily agree with evrything they do. But I doubt they sit up their in the offices in Herndon, VA thinking how they can screw people over.
They made mistakes, but one should learn from them and move on.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ALPA's pos02 contract was delivered to us by liars and thieves and was a disgrace to the profession. It was by far and large a giant step backwards for the CAL pilots. To even think that ALPA has made any gains on the property is a joke.

Why did you elect liars and thieves? Why did you not recall liars and thieves? If you elected these people isn't it fair to say the contract you'd get would be unsat?

Why do you put coal in and expect a diamond?

Why are you not part of the problem....?

 

[Turtle21]

Why did you elect liars and thieves? Why did you not recall liars and thieves? If you elected these people isn't it fair to say the contract you'd get would be unsat?

Why do you put coal in and expect a diamond?

Why are you not part of the problem....?

Yeah.. typical ALPA line. "Its all your fault for letting us screw you."

That is exactly what our reps at USAir said for years. Now they bitch that we listened to them and tossed their A$$ (and their national handlers) OUT.

 

[PCL_128]

Yeah, and it's really worked wonders for you, too. Those $125/hr 737 captains are just living the dream under uSAPa.

 

[Turtle21]

Yeah, and it's really worked wonders for you, too. Those $125/hr 737 captains are just living the dream under uSAPa.

PCL, It means more than you will ever know that you were the first to respond to my post. I was really hoping for it to be Rez, but I suppose you'll have to do.

xxoo

Turtle

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yeah.. typical ALPA line. "Its all your fault for letting us screw you."

That is exactly what our reps at USAir said for years. Now they bitch that we listened to them and tossed their A$$ (and their national handlers) OUT.

Claiming victim status for yourself is embarrasing.

 

[Turtle21]

Claiming victim status for yourself is embarrasing.

Does the caviar really taste that good? Gonna let the ALPAphiles vote on their president yet?


I voted on him, April 17th.


Rez, you want to be in the circle of trust. I know ya do. All ya gotta do is submit to the pilot vote. I know, I know. Its scary to think you might not be smarter than all the pilots put together.