Ram Air Freight - Selling Aircraft

[Flyerdan]

Any current Ramex pilots have any news? I was looking at aero trader online and saw several Ram Air Lances, Seneca's, and Barons up for sale. Are they looking to upgrade aircraft or are they struggling for business/revenue?

I hope business is still good. I really miss that freight flying sometimes since moving on to the airlines.

 

[StarHustler]

I used to fly for Package Express, which Ram Air bought back in 2004 I think. Package Express sold out after the Electronic Check Act was passed and the future flying paper checks around looked bleak. It would not surprise me if it is starting to affect Ram Air now. Kind of shame though, that was one heck of a way to build time and expreience as a younger pilot. I miss it too in a way, but don't miss the lower pay and getting the crap kicked out of me in bad weather, LOL. I will probably never be as good a 'stick' as I was then though..

 

[G-force]

Re: Scuzball operation!!!!!!

Talked to guy about a year ago that worked for this outfit.He was a high timer that had quit ASA( I understand there are a lot of guys in this category),he hated the place!!This outfit did not do any mx,if you had a serious squawk,you were expected to fly anyway!!
What does this sound like??? Any place that you want to work??
I don't think so!!!
This is a scuzball operation from what I hear!!!!

 

[Way2Broke]

Talked to guy about a year ago that worked for this outfit.He was a high timer that had quit ASA( I understand there are a lot of guys in this category),he hated the place!!This outfit did not do any mx,if you had a serious squawk,you were expected to fly anyway!!
What does this sound like??? Any place that you want to work??
I don't think so!!!
This is a scuzball operation from what I hear!!!!

I bet you never flew checks.

 

[av8tor76]

there's only 14 pilots on the seniority list if that tells you anything...

 

[Flyerdan]

Talked to guy about a year ago that worked for this outfit.He was a high timer that had quit ASA( I understand there are a lot of guys in this category),he hated the place!!This outfit did not do any mx,if you had a serious squawk,you were expected to fly anyway!!
What does this sound like??? Any place that you want to work??
I don't think so!!!
This is a scuzball operation from what I hear!!!!

You shouldn't really make judgments based on something you HEARD from someone a year ago.

That operation has FAA oversight just like other Part 135 operations. Flying freight is not everyones cup of tea. It's challenging and the aircraft are pretty beat up because they are work horses. The truth is that the MX is done where it counts because the goal is to make it to the destination on time.

You need to be a good pilot and understand the full meaning of PIC in order to fly freight safely. If you can't make and hold firm on a no go decision you shouldn't be there. My experience was that it was 98% really fun flying and 2% crap. I think that is an honest evaluation.

 

[1flier]

Flying checks usually doesnt have the prettiest birds, but Ram Air was far from the best to work for. I was a CFI at one thier bases in VA and seeing their Senaca or Baron come in with only one engine was a common event. This was over 5 years ago and I know the chief pilot from then has left, but the pilots didnt have much good to say except quick multi PIC and easy schedule. The remark about write ups is closer to fact than fiction at out bases.
As far as PIC authority, well one of our CFI's that took an opportunity to work with Ram Air was "taken off the schedule" as they told him when we wanted to delay departure because of a line of thunderstorms crossing the state that he could not find a way through. Of course he was never called to be put back on the schedule. Its 50/50, some pilots came out of there saying it enhanced their skills 1000% and others come out saying the place should be shutdown and they are just happy to be alive. I have worked for 2 check haulers, one had no MEL so if it was broke, they fixed it. The other one we lived by the MEL and minimal mx. Unfortunately its the nature of check hauling in general, cutting cost to get the customer usually consist of pilot pay (lack of) and mx budget (almost non-existant).

 

[G-force]

Re:Resting My Case!!!!!!!

Flying checks usually doesnt have the prettiest birds, but Ram Air was far from the best to work for. I was a CFI at one thier bases in VA and seeing their Senaca or Baron come in with only one engine was a common event. This was over 5 years ago and I know the chief pilot from then has left, but the pilots didnt have much good to say except quick multi PIC and easy schedule. The remark about write ups is closer to fact than fiction at out bases.
As far as PIC authority, well one of our CFI's that took an opportunity to work with Ram Air was "taken off the schedule" as they told him when we wanted to delay departure because of a line of thunderstorms crossing the state that he could not find a way through. Of course he was never called to be put back on the schedule. Its 50/50, some pilots came out of there saying it enhanced their skills 1000% and others come out saying the place should be shutdown and they are just happy to be alive. I have worked for 2 check haulers, one had no MEL so if it was broke, they fixed it. The other one we lived by the MEL and minimal mx. Unfortunately its the nature of check hauling in general, cutting cost to get the customer usually consist of pilot pay (lack of) and mx budget (almost non-existant).

Hey Flyerdan dude,I rest my case!!!!!!!!!To answer your other question,I did "fly checks" breifly with another "scuzball operator",BankAir!!! I have worked for "too many scuzball operators "in my lifetime!!!If you do "what they say and take too many chances,it will cost you your certificates,but also may cost you your life"!!!!!
How many pilots has RamAir killed?????BankAir has killed many pilots over the last 5 decades!!!!!!!

 

[Flyerdan]

Hey Flyerdan dude,I rest my case!!!!!!!!!To answer your other question,I did "fly checks" breifly with another "scuzball operator",BankAir!!! I have worked for "too many scuzball operators "in my lifetime!!!If you do "what they say and take too many chances,it will cost you your certificates,but also may cost you your life"!!!!!
How many pilots has RamAir killed?????BankAir has killed many pilots over the last 5 decades!!!!!!!

You rest your case based on another post by a person with second hand knowledge?

I can tell you that while I flew for RamAir I made the no go decision a few times and yes they did push me to go but when I held firm there were no negative consequences. Most of the equipment/mx issues I ran into were from other pilots who were too lazy to write up an aircraft. The A & P's were awesome! They even had some folks who did great metal work and paint work.

As far as I know there was only 1 pilot killed there and he flew into a tower because he was flying low level into the sun. Since then, they changed their flight rules to IFR flight plans only so pilots would comply with MEA's, etc.

As for pay, yea it is low. But the decision we often make is if we want to build time by renting a twin at $150 or more an hour, or if we want to get paid (even paid at a low salary) while flying and building experience in the IFR system.

Like I said, it isn't everyones cup of tea. Some people have the money to build time flying nice shiny twins and others have to do it the hard way. I can tell you one thing for certain and that is when it comes time for an airline interview you will get a leg up if you have freight dog experience on your resume.

 

[Way2Broke]

Hey Flyerdan dude,I rest my case!!!!!!!!!To answer your other question,I did "fly checks" breifly with another "scuzball operator",BankAir!!! I have worked for "too many scuzball operators "in my lifetime!!!If you do "what they say and take too many chances,it will cost you your certificates,but also may cost you your life"!!!!!
How many pilots has RamAir killed?????BankAir has killed many pilots over the last 5 decades!!!!!!!

Only one fatal that I know of. A pilot decided to fly VFR in IFR conditions, and impacted a antenna. Now you can not fly VFR there.

It is what it is, a experience building job. Anyone wanting to stay there any longer than they have to is nuts.

I think its sad that we are seeing stick and rudder type jobs disappear from the market, and I am not saying that Ram Air is top notch either, but it is a check hauler, and besides Airnet, I have never heard of a check hauler that someone hung around at. There is a reason for that.

 

[aveator]

i use to know a guy named chad ? he was there in the mid 90`s,,any one know him or keep in touch with him? thanks

 

[BigLebowski]

I used to work at Ram Air. It's shocking they are down to 14 pilots...how did you find that out? When I left I want to say there was around 30 or so on the seniority list.

I have to agree it was a stepping stone, but I had a BLAST flying there. I tell people all the time...flying cancelled checks is when I learned how to fly. I actually felt like a pilot when I worked there, now I feel like a systems manager.

I can always tell when I have an old 135 guy flying next to me, they're sharp as a razor when it comes to knowledge and we have so many stories to compare this and that.

I truly feel that check flying is an essential step in the road to the airlines. Those of you that didn't get the opportunity to do it...missed out.

 

[aewanabe]

Former Ramex here. Had a GREAT time, kept in touch with several bubbas after I made my way into the 121 world. Don't miss the low pay, or loading proof bags in the sleet/90 degree weather, or dealing with some of the 3-toothed bank couriers, but the flying was mostly a blast.

Did they "encourage" us to get the job done no matter what? A little, but far less than what I've heard about from other check-hauler veterans. I put my foot down a few times about weather or mx issues I was not comfortable with and was never punished. I fully agree with a previous poster; we had darned good mechanics with experience from Midway, the Air Force, and Corpex, among others. I always felt like they did what they could with 25-year old piston twins flying 100+ hours/month. Plus we had IFR GPS with current databases in every plane, something I'm told was a real luxury in that segment.

I've been wondering what they were gonna do come Check-21; we had 30-ish guys when I was there and am sorry to hear if they are really down to 14 or so guys. My short time there was the most fun I've had making a living in aviation and all these kids going CFI to RJ have no idea what they've missed.

 

[Buddy1958]

I too flew a RAMEX call sign (singles and twins) at a couple of WAY outbases - and can tell you from first-hand experience that Ram Air may not be for every one. Push you, yes. But like others have said, if you stuck to your decision (and backed it up with sound knowledge of the regs and company manuals, etc.), you were supported. It's those who weren't confident in their abilities and judgment who, more often than not, quit or got taken off the schedule. Gotta tell you, my stick & rudder skills improved 1000% while at Ram Air - and my love for flying and flying safely - increased immeasurably. Since leaving Ram over 5 years ago (and staying in the 135-world), I can't tell you how many big talkers (mostly coming from right or left seats in RJs) we've washed out or who simply didn't show for the next training flight. There is DEFINITELY a place for safety-minded light cargo haulers. Read history (i.e., Fate is the Hunter), some of the best and longest lived pilots started their career in a smelly, dinged-up old freight-dog airplane. I sure hope Ram Air isn't another victim of this friggin economic downturn. I will always smile when I think of some of the "learning" I got while single-pilot in an old smelly, drafty, dirty Seneca or Lance.

 

[momalley81]

Another satisfied former Ramex'er here. Enjoyed my time there, one of the most fun flying jobs I ever had. Yeah, the planes were a little tired looking, and yeah they broke sometimes. I was there for over a year, and learned a lot. Did dispatch try and push you? Sometimes. Other times they put the brakes on for you, too. But if you put your foot down, it was respected.

What I DID see often times, were guys that didn't want to work, or didn't want to fly, causing others to have to pickup the slack. They didn't last long. They either quit or were taken off the schedule.

I was outbased, and wrote up many planes when it was called for. I even remember a few times breaking down at some of the remotest outbases. My judgment was never questioned. It would be a shame to see it go; I keep in contact with more than a few former coworkers, last I heard they had sold the last of the 402's. The end of an era, I fear.

Just hope they can survive the current downturn and find a way to reorganize their business.

 

[bailey3083]

I was at Ram Air back in the 90's. At that time we had no dispatchers just canned flight plans. It was up to us to check the weather,fuel plan, etc. At that time they had more Cheetah's then anything else and it was a privilege to get into the Baron. We were pushed to fly around storms but never thru one. The few times I did take off into bad weather it was because I did not want to spend the night somewhere because I was broke. In the 2 years I was there we lost no pilots and at that point there had been no lost pilots at all. MX did a great job keeping those planes flying and if I wrote a plane up(regardless of where) it was fixed.
I went from there to BankAir for almost 4 years. Again no dispatchers just canned flight plans. BankAir pushed you to fly also but never made it a requirement, if you said no then they stop bugging you. The planes were kept in good shape by MX but showed their age. From my knowledge BankAir during its History lost only 4 people with 3 of those in a training accident when a C172 took off at a LR35 doing a practice single circling without making a single announcement.
Both companies taught me alot which has stayed with me since then. While at the airlines/Fractionals I saw a HUGE difference between us Freight Dogs and everyone
else. When you are stuck in the soup by yourself on a dark night shooting an approach to mins with no autopilot and only your skill you become a good pilot.
I hate to hear that RamAir might shut down but it will join a list of other companies that now only provide memories.

 

[bushrat]

I used to work at Ram Air. It's shocking they are down to 14 pilots...how did you find that out? When I left I want to say there was around 30 or so on the seniority list.

I have to agree it was a stepping stone, but I had a BLAST flying there. I tell people all the time...flying cancelled checks is when I learned how to fly. I actually felt like a pilot when I worked there, now I feel like a systems manager.

I can always tell when I have an old 135 guy flying next to me, they're sharp as a razor when it comes to knowledge and we have so many stories to compare this and that.

I truly feel that check flying is an essential step in the road to the airlines. Those of you that didn't get the opportunity to do it...missed out.

From one former check hauler to another:

That's a pretty arrogant statement you made, so here goes.

Those of you check haulers that didn't get the opportunity to fly for hire in Alaska couldn't hold a candle.

 

[acpilot]

When you are stuck in the soup by yourself on a dark night shooting an approach to mins with no autopilot and only your skill you become a good pilot.

Too bad it doesn't pay what it should pay. That job requires a pilot to be a PILOT!

 

[sleddriver71]

From one former check hauler to another:

That's a pretty arrogant statement you made, so here goes.

Those of you check haulers that didn't get the opportunity to fly for hire in Alaska couldn't hold a candle.

Hmmm, I don't think anyone cares Mr. Alaska.

 

[BGSM]

Ram Air

I flew for Ram ... yes the planes were ugly but maintained, they did push about flying in weather but if you said No! that was the end of it. I was outbased, only pilot there great schedule take off 930 home by 1830 till the bases closed. Most fun flying I have ever done Ram was an awesome experience.