Falcon sms = transonic????

[JJET44]

Rumor has it that Dassault's new SMS (Super-Mid-Size) project will be a M1.0 airplane (12,500 lbs thrust per engine and MGTOW in the mid 30's.) They have supposedly found a way to build an airplane that can travel at M1.0 without creating a sonic boom!!

 

[skier17]

where did this rumor start?

 

[pilot error]

where did this rumor start?

flight info, corporate sub-forum.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Its still not a Grumman.

And hell, so long as it can go to FL520 I would be happy. Id go there and take FMS/Airshow pictures.

 

[Rick James]

Its still not a Grumman.

And hell, so long as it can go to FL520 I would be happy. Id go there and take FMS/Airshow pictures.

I'm curious, you wouldn't be fond of Gulfstreams would you? I noticed it mentioned once or twice in your sig.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I'm curious, you wouldn't be fond of Gulfstreams would you? I noticed it mentioned once or twice in your sig.

Few aircraft embody such an iconic level as genuinely as a Grumman. To a pilot, this jet is a symbol of all that a flying machine should be – and more. A mix of complexity and capability that engages the mind, yet never numbs it; a blend of luxury with the assurance that comfort is still second to safety; a combination of form and function that resonate as one.

 

[2EASYPilot]

Few aircraft embody such an iconic level as genuinely as a Grumman. To a pilot, this jet is a symbol of all that a flying machine should be – and more. A mix of complexity and capability that engages the mind, yet never numbs it; a blend of luxury with the assurance that comfort is still second to safety; a combination of form and function that resonate as one.

Is there a puke icon here somewhere...(-_-).

 

[BoilerUP]

I can't imagine having 12.5k thrust PER SIDE, on a midsize airframe, would do much for Falcon's "legendary fuel burns".

 

[svcta]

A wing that can penetrate Mach 1 with no shockwave= the holy grail of aerodynamics.


I think the best that NASA is working on right now is "shaping" the boom to sound more like a distant thunder clap than what it currently is.

 

[cjdriver]

Few aircraft embody such an iconic level as genuinely as a Grumman. To a pilot, this jet is a symbol of all that a flying machine should be – and more. A mix of complexity and capability that engages the mind, yet never numbs it; a blend of luxury with the assurance that comfort is still second to safety; a combination of form and function that resonate as one.

Nice description of the iconic Bonanza. 60+ years later, unable to be improved upon.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Nice description of the iconic Bonanza. 60+ years later, unable to be improved upon.

Son, I am describing the iconic Gulfstream business jet - gods machine.

Gulfstreams -True aviation Icons...things that we recognize easily because of qualities that elevate them beyond our ordinary levels of awareness to a place where a single word or phrase, a single sound, or even a single image evokes everything we know about them. Icons are so powerful that they do more than inspire thoughts; they elevate feeling to the cusp of our consciousness.

 

[G4G5]

Going supersoinc on a drawing board don't count.

Yeah, plenty of power, that what French Aircraft are known for.

I can see it know, but Monsieur, read the fine print, we only gurantee supersonic while the aircraft is in descent mode, with 2 pilots weighing a combined 180 pounds, no interior ...........

But don't worry we with come out with come out with an A model, a B, a C, an EX, DX, LX, EZ that will do what we originally intended it to do and thats no BS

 

[con-pilot]

Going supersoinc on a drawing board don't count.

Yeah, plenty of power, that what French Aircraft are known for.

I can see it know, but Monsieur, read the fine print, we only gurantee supersonic while the aircraft is in descent mode, with 2 pilots weighing a combined 180 pounds, no interior ...........

But don't worry we with come out with come out with an A model, a B, a C, an EX, DX, LX, EX that will do what we originally intended it to do and thats no BS

Err, right, I guess that is why Gulfstream (not Grumman) never built a GIIb/GIIc/GIIIac/GIIIdc/GIV/GIVsp/G300/G400/G450/GV/G550 after the orginal G-II. All designed around the G-1 fusulage.

 

[Rick James]

Son, I am describing the iconic Gulfstream business jet - gods machine.

Gulfstreams -True aviation Icons...things that we recognize easily because of qualities that elevate them beyond our ordinary levels of awareness to a place where a single word or phrase, a single sound, or even a single image evokes everything we know about them. Icons are so powerful that they do more than inspire thoughts; they elevate feeling to the cusp of our consciousness.

That's awesome, I wish I could drink that Koolaid in my psuedo-French, low riding, RJ derivative, 604.:bawling:

 

[Gulfstream 200]

That's awesome, I wish I could drink that Koolaid in my psuedo-French, low riding, RJ derivative, 604.:bawling:

Maybe someday. Keep up the hard work and you may get here.

Throughout the history of aviation both men and machines alike have reached this loftiest dais of distinction. Indeed, their relationship to one another is often so interwoven that they are often synonymous with one another.

Few aircraft embody such an iconic level as genuinely as a Gulfstream. To a pilot, this jet is a symbol of all that a flying machine should be – and more.

Good Luck, its all worth it.

 

[pilot error]

this gulfstream guy is classic.

 

[Kingairrick]

I read the following in AIN or somewhere:
The SMS will have 12,500lb thrust class engines. I'm sure they will be derated to a reasonable level.
The transonic rumor is that parts of the airframe may operate in that regime. It has to do with the fly-by-wire system. A FBW aircraft can be certified to a narrower margin to onset of undesirable transonic effects than a conventionally controlled aircraft.
I don't know the exact math but an example would be if there is a buffet @ .98, a FBW aircraft can be certified with an MMO of .965 and a conventionally controlled aircraft would be limited to .93. Once again example, NOT real numbers.
I do know that Falcon has stated they will get the "fastest business jet" title back from Cessna with the SMS. Falcon 10 had it previously...

 

[JJET44]

It was stated to me that the airplane is going to do M1.0 over land. Now I don't want to outright reveal my source by name but let's just say that the source is someone who is heading up the 7x training program for the number one training company worldwide.

 

[BoilerUP]

If my limited experience in this industry has shown me anything, its that there's no rumors like schoolhouse rumors...

 

[Kingairrick]

Gee, since there's only one 7X training company, which company could it be? If he's right, that would be very, very, cool!

 

[JJET44]

Gee, since there's only one 7X training company, which company could it be? If he's right, that would be very, very, cool!

One company that is up and running! The other will be online in the fall.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Gee, since there's only one 7X training company, which company could it be? If he's right, that would be very, very, cool!

Along with the current training provider (CAE in MMU) FSI is also gearing up a 7X program in DFW. The existing 2 sims in the world dont seem too busy yet, so it may be a pretty slow start..

Dassault has been talking about fast airplanes (supersonic) for years. However....they, like most others, have enough problems selling airplanes that are piling up everywhere right now.

I'd not expect much effort in $100mil+ supersonic corp jets right away. These days Dassault has ramped up the "green" and "fuel efficient" play in best efforts to outdue other OEMs.

Also - I would DEFINITELY not take much value in any kind of rumor I heard at a training facility!....:erm:...from my experience, those guys are often as far disconnected from whats really going on as one can be - especially with Dassault.

 

[JJET44]

If my limited experience in this industry has shown me anything, its that there's no rumors like schoolhouse rumors...

Boiler,

I agree. I don't think my source would mislead me..........but who's to say that his source hasn't mislead him?......and like someone posted earlier, this could be a goal that fails or falls short. Never-the-less if they succeed in beating out the Citation X in speed, it'll still be a an interesting plane.

 

[JJET44]

along with the current training provider (cae in mmu) fsi is also gearing up a 7x program in dfw.

bingo!!!

 

[JJET44]

Also - I would DEFINITELY not take much value in any kind of rumor I heard at a training facility!....:erm:...from my experience, those guys are often as far disconnected from whats really going on as one can be - especially with Dassault.

Notice the multiple question marks on my original post. There is quite a bit of skepticism on my part that this will become a reality although I can believe that this may be their goal.

 

[JJET44]

Thanks for the discussion but I gots to go make the donuts!!!!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Boiler,

I agree. I don't think my source would mislead me..........but who's to say that his source hasn't mislead him?......and like someone posted earlier, this could be a goal that fails or falls short. Never-the-less if they succeed in beating out the Citation X in speed, it'll still be a an interesting plane.

Interesting yes....big seller? doubt it..

Range and comfort (cabin altitude, humidity, galley, etc) are far higher on buyers lists these days. OEMs also seem to be putting 90% of their effort into the longest range aircraft, and all are going FBW.

I keep hearing of more and more .85+ airplanes being flown at .80-.82 to save money.

There would always be a handful of rich eccentrics willing to pay any price for the hottest, fastest thing...but the current plan of lying low and not being noticed looks like it will (sadly) be here for a LONG LONG time!

 

[waddawurld]

Well, you know what they say-- big airplane, big suitcase-- I'll take my 'barbie jet' and the extra home time anyday.(Big airplanes-BTDT)

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Well, you know what they say-- big airplane, big suitcase-- I'll take my 'barbie jet' and the extra home time anyday.(Big airplanes-BTDT)

The average fractional Cessna pilot and regional RJ/ERJ pilot do far more work days, and overnights, than most "big airplane" corporate pilots I know......and usually for far less money.

The most overnights I ever did in a year in this business was in a Learjet. Id also rather do a 5 day overnight then have a week or so off as opposed to long days and quick 1-2 night overnights in a row...but to each his own.

and really, from my observation -- its not the plane at all that determines QOL --- its the JOB!!

 

[hawkerflyer]

Is there a puke icon here somewhere...(-_-).

Too late, I already threw up a little in my mouth...