AS Recalls?

[Chief Pilot]

A Quick ETOPS Update
Dec 17, 2009 -- As of now, the progress of our talks about the establishment of an ETOPS base in SEA has moved along very slowly. The only real outcome has been the company’s position that something needs to be done before the additional Hawaii flying starts this spring. The company has told our Negotiating Committee that a bid will be posted before the middle of January in order to create enough ETOPS trained pilots to meet the increased frequency of Hawaii flying.

There are basically three solutions the company appears willing to consider.
They are:
(1) Create an ETOPS base in SEA;
(2) Increase the number of ETOPS pilots in LA and ANC; or
(3) Open a PDX base.
We really can’t even begin to speculate exactly which outcome is most likely. The only outcome your MEC has any involvement in is the creation of an ETOPS base in SEA. The other two options can be done within the constraints of our CBA. If you have any questions or comments, give Garth or me [Craig] a call.


This is posted on the Council 64 page. I'm betting a PDX base is in our future. Let's hope it results in some recalls.

CP

 

[QCappy]

I think a PDX base would be the best option for the pilots. I know we have many guys that live there that would LOVE a base there. Of course, it would probably add a few more reserves...although shifting flying from one base to another doesn't really add many more. Not to mention the savings in hotel costs that the company occurs from all those PDX overnights.

 

[AKMD80GUY]

The number I heard was a minimum of 56 recalls. That was to cover the increase in HI flying as well as minimum growth. I didn't hear about the PDX base other than in rumors but that would seem logical. The company obviously wants this ASAP. They are going to need the additional pilots to do this. Don't treat the furloughed pilots like hostages. The company needs them to fly the schedule any way.

 

[Going2Baja]

I talked to crew planning today and they said ALL is depending on the ETOPS in SEA. She said 'no comment' on PDX. ANd her responce to recalls was that all was dependent on the unknown Summer block hours. Fingers crossed for LOTS of recalls & a PDX base.

Baja.

 

[turbodriver]

The number I heard was a minimum of 56 recalls. That was to cover the increase in HI flying as well as minimum growth. I didn't hear about the PDX base other than in rumors but that would seem logical. The company obviously wants this ASAP. They are going to need the additional pilots to do this. Don't treat the furloughed pilots like hostages. The company needs them to fly the schedule any way.

Whats the source of the 56 recall rumor?

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Whats the source of the 56 recall rumor?

Um, he's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.

(Sorry, I couldn't help myself.)

 

[QCappy]

I just heard from a reliable source (I know, but I can't disclose who it is), that a number in the 50 range is needed for the summer. Let's hope this will actually happen. Flame on.

 

[scoreboardII]

So, besides about 15 minutes of reading and a slap on the back, how much does it take to train ETOP'S?

 

[Mea25000]

Not much time... You have it about right. One flight, one day in the classroom and we could have the entire SEA base trained. Its the FAA certification that takes all the time. You guys also need to buy some 800's. The 700 just doesn't have the capacity to make it worth the money. I hear GK still believes HI flying is a big loser though.

 

[Green Banana]

You guys also need to buy some 800's. The 700 just doesn't have the capacity to make it worth the money. I hear GK still believes HI flying is a big loser though.

Uh, FACT CHECK....
All AS ETOPS airplanes are 800. As for the $$. I have seen the numbers for my self. As is making $ in Hawaii.

 

[wscrj]

Green Banana, I think Mea was talking to scoreboard (WN) about 700's.

I've heard whispers the recall will be more in the neighborhood of 20-ish, if they elect to recall that is.

 

[Mea25000]

I sure hope we don't cave and give them everything they want. With the SEA ETOPS base within a base scenario the company wants I would be surprised if anyone gets recalled. If the company has to open PDX a thirty to fifty number is about right. Of course that will also depend on the summer schedule the company decides to run. Here is to PDX and a bunch of guys coming back!

 

[Chief Pilot]

Not much time... You have it about right. One flight, one day in the classroom and we could have the entire SEA base trained.

The problem, I've heard with training the entire SEA base is currency. Or more aptly...recency of experience. Training the entire base is not really the issue. It's the fact that you'd have some folks who never, or very rarely, fly ETOPS. Then they get a HI trip and booger up the paperwork and process on the way over and the way back. This would jeopardize our ETOPS status with the Feds as a whole. Smaller ETOPS bases, or ETOPS pilots within a base ensure that everyone stays familiar with the process and nuances of ETOPS flying.

Personally, I hope to see a PDX base. I agree that a SEA base within a base would result in few, if any, recalls.
CP.

 

[igneousy2]

When we last updated you about discussions related to a Seattle ETOPS base, we told you that we were in the process of gathering information from management so that we could evaluate pairing/line and staffing models as they relate to the topic at hand. While we have completed some analysis, we are still waiting for all of the information we requested to become available. In the meantime, ideas have been exchanged and the Company presented us with a formal proposal this afternoon.

Regardless of the outcome of these discussions, it is clear that management will do what they deem necessary to accommodate the increased ETOPS flying beginning this Spring. There are three potential outcomes mentioned by management: a negotiated Seattle ETOPS base, a reallocation of flying between the current bases or the creation of a PDX base. Each of these scenarios will precipitate some level of realignment in staffing in each domicile.

We continue to be in contact with your elected Status Representatives regarding these discussions. Due to the now-tightening time frame, it does not appear that we will have time to conduct full-scale polling on this subject. We encourage any pilots who have thoughts or ideas on this subject to contact their Status Rep.

Wishing you and your family a safe and happy holiday.


Fraternally,




How is it that we have a "tightening time frame" why are we allowing management to dictate the time frame? It seems to me that management has the "tightening time frame"...not us.

I hope we stand firm on this...a "base within a base" is the least desireable outcome from where I sit right now. Unfortunately it seems that the powers that be in our MEC want the Seattle ETOPS base to happen. Obviously their first choice would be to have everyone trained...their second choice I think would be to have a SEA ETOPS base in spite of the increased pilot demands the other options would provide.

Everybody keep your fingers crossed we at least start reversing the trend line and get some pilots back...even if it's just TWO!

Later,

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Igneousy2,

Good point. What is the timeframe rush? Is Mgmt saying we have only so long until they unilaterally change out CBA?

 

[QCappy]

The rush is the March Bay Area-Hawaii flights that they don't have enough ETOPS pilots for. They need to figure out what they are going to do, put out a position bid for it, and train the appropriate number of guys for ETOPS. This takes time. Time that they are running out of to get it all done by mid March.

I have from a good source that a SEA ETOPS base is not going to be a push-over.

 

[igneousy2]

The rush is the March Bay Area-Hawaii flights that they don't have enough ETOPS pilots for. They need to figure out what they are going to do, put out a position bid for it, and train the appropriate number of guys for ETOPS. This takes time. Time that they are running out of to get it all done by mid March.

I have from a good source that a SEA ETOPS base is not going to be a push-over.

Like I said...

It seems to me that management has the "tightening time frame"...not us.

Or as someone else once said..."improper planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part"

I have no doubt we will get something for the ETOPS base...I just hope it helps those of us on the street.

Merry Christmas

 

[QCappy]

Like I said...

It seems to me that management has the "tightening time frame"...not us.

Or as someone else once said..."improper planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part"

I have no doubt we will get something for the ETOPS base...I just hope it helps those of us on the street.

Merry Christmas

100% agree!

Merry Christmas.

 

[AKMD80GUY]

If you take the number of ETOPS trained pilots between the ANC and LAX bases, there is enough to cover the expanded Hawaii flying. The problem then lies in how they staff the other flying. The company will most definitely save money and resources by having a SEA ETOPS base. You could also make the case of opening a PDX base (co terminal) with the SEA base to staff the HI flying out of PDX. That leaves only OAK and SMF as the only two that can't be staffed in base.

I believe that unless the company intends to grow, ,the SEA ETOPS base is nothing more than a grab by the company. If we want to see pilots recalled, it will only come with growth. I heard a new bid will be coming out but I think there are enough former SEA pilots that bid LAX or ANC that are currently ETOPS trained and will just re-bid to SEA. Any promise by the company to recall based on this ETOPS base I think is a stretch. They do need to recall now based on block hours alone but they want to attach it to the HI flying so they don't have to look bad for furloughing too many pilots to begin with.

 

[Chief Pilot]

How is it that we have a "tightening time frame" why are we allowing management to dictate the time frame? It seems to me that management has the "tightening time frame"...not us.

This "tightening time frame" is another way for management to attempt to get what they want by pitting the three existing bases against each other.

If YOU (MEC) don't give us (management) what we want, we will leave ANC as a shell of its former self, we won't grow LAX, and we will reduce SEA flying to staff PDX. YOU better give us SEA ETOPS with SEA super reserves...etc...or you will be sorry.

The MEC sees through this and knows that management's time frame is just that, management's time frame. They made their bed, now they have to sleep in it. I don't think they realize that there are a lot of pilots who would love to see a PDX base, all bluff and bluster aside. I certainly would and feel that it not only gives the company more flexibility, but would result in the most recalls.

CP.