The Brits show Americans the way. STRIKE!

[KarmaPolice]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8411214.stm

British Airways cabin crew vote for Christmas strike

British Airways cabin crew have voted overwhelmingly in favour of strike action in a dispute over job cuts and changes to staff contracts.
The strikes are set to begin on 22 December and run until 2 January.
Cabin crew voted by nine to one in favour of the strike action, with an 80% turnout.
BA's chief executive Willie Walsh said the decision was "cynical" and betrayed "a lack of concern for our customers, our business and other employees".
Len McCluskey, assistant general secretary of the Unite union, said: "It goes without saying that we have taken this decision to disrupt passengers and customers over the Christmas period with a heavy heart."
He stressed that the union was keen to continue negotiations.
"We will wait, ready to meet, anytime, anywhere, 24 hours a day, to try to see if we can resolve the dispute."
Contacting passengers

BA's chief executive Willie Walsh said the company would be doing everything it could to limit the effect of the strike action.
"We are going to look at all our options [to minimise disruption]; operational, legal and industrial relations options," he told BBC News.
BA offered passengers who are booked to travel during the strike period - or 48 hours either side of it - the chance to rebook their flights at no extra cost.
Otherwise it said it would inform customers of changes to its schedules by email or SMS text.
"We will use the contact details supplied at the time of booking, so we ask customers to please ensure these are correct and up-to-date," BA said in a statement.
Mr Walsh said he had told the Unite union he was available for talks, but was uncompromising on the central issue of the dispute.
"The changes that we introduced in the middle of November will not be reversed. Those changes enabled us to offer voluntary redundancy to 1,000 cabin crew and those people have left the business."

Cuts concerns

Unions are unhappy about job cuts and changes to staff contracts, which they say they have not been consulted on.
BA has reduced the number of cabin crew from 15 to 14 on all long-haul flights, and has frozen pay for two years.
Unite said that the cuts involved imposing "significant contractual changes" on cabin crew employees, resulting in extended working hours, and reduced wages for new starters.
BA says it urgently needs to cut costs to ride out its dire financial situation. Last month it revealed it had lost £292m in the first half of the year - the worst period in its history - and said it would have to cut a further 1,200 staff.

 

[DYLIN]

Here in the land of the free, you go to jail if you strike without permission.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

Here in the land of the free, you go to jail if you strike without permission.

God bless America eh?

 

[flygirlqt]

Good thing ALPA has been trying so hard to ammend the RLA

 

[Captain Morgan]

Here in the land of the free, you go to jail if you strike without permission.

Yeah, but it might be worth it...

 

[Mookie]

Here in the land of the free, you go to jail if you strike without permission.

And upgraded to Captain if you cross the picket line.....

 

[SFR]

God bless America eh?

You are welcome to leave and go live somewhere else.

 

[Lear70]

Good thing ALPA has been trying so hard to ammend the RLA

And what are the atlernatives? Oh yeah...

Here in the land of the free, you go to jail if you strike without permission.

And get fined Millions of dollars for your union, and have the "me" people cross the picket lines anyway.

We'll definitely keep fighting the fight, but unless the Brits want to allow us to apply to THEIR companies just like THEY can apply to OURS, or can figure out a way to force our government to change the RLA just as they want to force our government to change Cabotage and Open Skies laws, then no, they aren't showing us anything useful at all.

 

[mach none]

Good thing ALPA has been trying so hard to ammend the RLA

Be careful what you ask for. If the RLA gets opened up, the pilots won't be the only ones at the rule making process.

 

[Grandpa +65]

The Brits show Americans the way. STRIKE!
Yeap! We can do the same, when only ONE big National airline does exist in USA.

 

[DC10]

We'll definitely keep fighting the fight, but unless the Brits want to allow us to apply to THEIR companies just like THEY can apply to OURS, or can figure out a way to force our government to change the RLA just as they want to force our government to change Cabotage and Open Skies laws, then no, they aren't showing us anything useful at all.

Lear, I'm usually a fan of yours but I have to correct you here as your facts are wrong. As a dual UK/US citizen I can tell you that I know for a fact that the British airlines have hiring requirements that are no different from the US airlines. These are, local (JAA) licenses, as well as the LEGAL right to live and work in the UK. To state that Americans can't apply to British airlines while Brits can apply to US airlines is absolutely wrong. For the record, I personally know Americans flying for BA, Ryanair and Easyjet in the UK, as well as Air France and SAS.

Also, don't believe for a second that Cabotage and Open Skies are a one way street; the major US airlines want Cabotage and Open Skies so that they can start flying revenue flights within Europe every bit as much as the European airlines want it in the US. The US airlines have been lobbying the European Union very strongly in favor of Open Skies agreements.

Other than that, thanks for all you've done for our pilot group and hopefully we'll see you online again soon.

 

[clippyrip]

Be careful what you ask for. If the RLA gets opened up, the pilots won't be the only ones at the rule making process.

So true. One of the VPs at AK Air is a family friend and we spoke about the RLA and how he wants to see it go away. That makes one wonder, if management wants it and the pilots want it, who wins? Can't be both...

 

[Lear70]

Lear, I'm usually a fan of yours but I have to correct you here as your facts are wrong. As a dual UK/US citizen I can tell you that I know for a fact that the British airlines have hiring requirements that are no different from the US airlines. These are, local (JAA) licenses, as well as the LEGAL right to live and work in the UK. To state that Americans can't apply to British airlines while Brits can apply to US airlines is absolutely wrong. For the record, I personally know Americans flying for BA, Ryanair and Easyjet in the UK, as well as Air France and SAS.

Not trying to pick a fight, but I am definitely going to have to disagree with you that this is a level playing field.

It's almost IMPOSSIBLE these days to get long-term EU right of abode without a sponsor (someone who is going to hire you for a job you are uniquely suitable for - none of the airlines will do that in the EU), or marrying a EU citizen (and who wants to do that just for a job?), or having a child in the UK (and even that has its own strict terms and conditions and, again, who's going to do that just to increase their job possibilities?). Unless you want to change your citizenship away from the U.S., and I don't know of too many people who are eager to do that...

Conversely, it has been much easier, historically-speaking, for foreigners to come to the U.S., get their ratings, get a job, then use that job as a basis for permanent citizenship and get it within a reasonable amount of time. It's one of the things this country was founded on, just the nature of the beast, and has been this way for as long as I have been a pilot (20+ years), and has only gotten worse with so many U.S. pilots out of a job.

Also, don't believe for a second that Cabotage and Open Skies are a one way street; the major US airlines want Cabotage and Open Skies so that they can start flying revenue flights within Europe every bit as much as the European airlines want it in the US. The US airlines have been lobbying the European Union very strongly in favor of Open Skies agreements.

Granted, but I still think it's a terrible idea for labor.

It's part of that "life cycle of an airline" I was talking about in another thread regarding deregulation. If an airline can't grow, it will die as its costs increase without new routes and income to support those increasing costs since other companies with lower costs keep the prices artificially depressed and prevent raising ticket prices to cover costs. U.S. airlines want Open Skies in Europe so they can expand to survive. Either way, labor loses, which is why I vehemently oppose Open Skies and Cabotage, as it will put more downward pressure on wages with more ASM's which always drives down fares.

Other than that, thanks for all you've done for our pilot group and hopefully we'll see you online again soon.

Thanks, I appreciate that. 2 more months to Arbitration, then 60-90 days for the award... Lots of work left to do, still. Merry Christmas!

 

[Dieterly]

We'll definitely keep fighting the fight, but unless the Brits want to allow us to apply to THEIR companies just like THEY can apply to OURS.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Lear70]

What the hell are you talking about?

You have to have PERMANENT EU right of abode in order to work for any of the EU companies.

Have you ever tried to get that as a U.S. citizen? It's difficult in the extreme, and that's an understatement. I looked into it last year when I spent a month flying in Italy. It's not even the JAA licensing that's the hard part (although that's time consuming), it's getting an EU passport and/or EU right of abode on a permanent basis that's the hard part.

But thanks for being so polite about it...

 

[Lear70]

So true. One of the VPs at AK Air is a family friend and we spoke about the RLA and how he wants to see it go away. That makes one wonder, if management wants it and the pilots want it, who wins? Can't be both...

One thing the RLA does is give time to the unions to get all the pilots on board for a strike. That can be useful, since pilots are loathe to risk their jobs (and no one wants to see their company go out of business), and it takes a while to get everyone on board in this country, unlike the EU where strikes and labor unions are just the same way they've done business for centuries. Their employees are much more used to that type of process.

Another thing the RLA does is prevent management from unilaterally imposing new work rules / pay rates on the very day that the contract is amendable, and forces them to go through the bargaining process or the court system in bankruptcy to obtain concessions.

Using AirTran as an example, back when the contract became amendable and we had a weak union on property (about 5 years ago), if there were no RLA on the day the contract became amendable, management could have walked in and said, "We're going to unilaterally cut wages by 20%, cut your B fund by 50%, and get rid of the Twomey/Casher award". The pilots would be up in arms, but afraid to walk off the line that very day. Then the company comes in at the last second and says "Unless you sign this new contract that freezes all wages for another 10 years, we're going to follow through with our cuts". It's possible it would have passed. Today is another story.

Now that we've had time to get our ducks in order, stronger union, more organized, and ready to fight that battle, management is in a much worse position to do any such thing once we're released into self-help.

So it's a two-way street. Yes, we'd get the ability to wildcat strike, sympathy strike, and not wait half a decade or longer for the process to work, but management at airlines that weren't prepared could seriously mess with the pilot group. It would require an entirely new method of preparation and operation by unions in this country.

 

[DC10]

Lear, I understand what you're saying, however, contrary to popular belief, it's almost impossible for a non US citizen to come to flying school over here and get anything other than a non-extendable 2 year work visa to build experience as a flight instructor. There's practically no chance of getting a green card / citizenship without marrying a US citizen. No different to the situation in Europe. I know many who have tried and failed. I also know 2 Americans who married Brits just to obtain UK residency and then divorced as soon as their papers came through.

I totally agree with you that Cabotage / Open Skies is a bad idea for labor. Good luck with the Arbitration, there are lots of FL pilots hoping you get reinstated.

 

[pilotyip]

Strikes at union companies only help non-union companies. Where the employees do not have beome unemployed while striking. And thier enlightened employer matches the union pay and benefits. i.e Toyota, Honda etc. Strikes and threat of strikes have done wonders for the UAW haven't they?

 

[Dornier 335]

about US and EU

The fact is that aviation used to be a less complicated world 10 years ago/pre-911. Back then with some luck EU citizens were able to get a work visa with the help of $$$ and a good immigration attorney. I believe Ryanair helped qualified pilots to obtain work visas for Europe. You could transfer your foreign type on your FAA ATP without any major complications.

One thing I don't understand is how UPS is able to maintain a hub in CGN (Cologne-Bonn). I believe it would be impossible if DHL decided to make an airport in the US a hub and staffed it entirely with EU pilots (not trying to start a flight - just sayin').

Unfortunately today, both regulatory worlds have made it impossible to move back and forth between the EU and US market. Licenses and TR are not transferable or recognized and the general perception on both sides towards any foreigner is "why don't you just go back home". It's a shame really considering that nothing is more international than aviation. Most pilots these days are busier with Union CBAs, FARs or JARs, and dumb laws that restrict them and aim to take the fun out of this profession.

 

[BOOZENEWS]

And what are the atlernatives? Oh yeah...

Don't you think we could get it amended drastically in our favor with a democratic pres, a majority in the house and a filabuster proof majority in the Senate? Seems like it to me. Maybe not everything, but a lot more than now.

While the dems won't likely support us, I can't imagine they will WORK AGAINST US and therefore anger labor at large (outside of aviation) in time for the 2010 elections.

Thoughts?

 

[A-V-8]

Another thing the RLA does is prevent management from unilaterally imposing new work rules / pay rates on the very day that the contract is amendable, and forces them to go through the bargaining process or the court system in bankruptcy to obtain concessions.

Maybe on paper but Crew tracking at Mesa makes up new rules every day. Before you ask me or tell me to file a GIR I will be happy to send you a screen shot of all of my pending GIRs. Just PM your email to me.

 

[mesaserf]

Don't you think we could get it amended drastically in our favor with a democratic pres, a majority in the house and a filabuster proof majority in the Senate? Seems like it to me. Maybe not everything, but a lot more than now.

While the dems won't likely support us, I can't imagine they will WORK AGAINST US and therefore anger labor at large (outside of aviation) in time for the 2010 elections.

Thoughts?

Well for starters The Big O and the majority Dem’s let organized labors attempt at amending the secret ballot vote initiative die on the table. More than likely they will also let the modifications allowing a simple majority vote for unionization die too. (That is, as of now an unreturned vote card is considered a “NO” vote for union representation.)

By his actions and not his words our would-be savoir of the common man has shown us exactly whom he takes his marching orders from.

And it sure as hell isn’t us.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

You are welcome to leave and go live somewhere else.

Actively trying to, thank you.

 

[Lear70]

Lear, I understand what you're saying, however, contrary to popular belief, it's almost impossible for a non US citizen to come to flying school over here and get anything other than a non-extendable 2 year work visa to build experience as a flight instructor. There's practically no chance of getting a green card / citizenship without marrying a US citizen. No different to the situation in Europe. I know many who have tried and failed. I also know 2 Americans who married Brits just to obtain UK residency and then divorced as soon as their papers came through.

I totally agree with you that Cabotage / Open Skies is a bad idea for labor. Good luck with the Arbitration, there are lots of FL pilots hoping you get reinstated.

Admittedly, I haven't talked to anyone who's tried the EU to US move in about a decade (we had quite a few at the old Express One, especially with E-net). Too bad there aren't more jobs with great career potential in both countries to worry more about it... Maybe in a decade or so.

Thanks for the kind words, hope to be back in class in the next 6 months and join you guys back out on the picket lines until we get a contract worth making this a career, not just the pit stop that management wants it to be for us.

 

[saabservant]

I don't think alpa representation is interested in amending the RLA. It is a great guarantee of employment for them....endless negotiations.

 

[Smash312]

And what are the atlernatives? Oh yeah...


And get fined Millions of dollars for your union, and have the "me" people cross the picket lines anyway.

We'll definitely keep fighting the fight, but unless the Brits want to allow us to apply to THEIR companies just like THEY can apply to OURS, or can figure out a way to force our government to change the RLA just as they want to force our government to change Cabotage and Open Skies laws, then no, they aren't showing us anything useful at all.

Errrr.... how can Brits apply to YOUR airlines exactly? Unless they're permanent residents or citizens of the US they can't last time I checked. Don't be fooled, there are Americans who fly for BA, Ryanair and EasyJet. You just don't know of them.

 

[flygirlqt]

My post was not intended that the rla needs to be thrown out, but amended. There has to be some process to allow self help at some point. This in itself is weighted against labor with the endless time frame the nmb is allowed to park negotiations.

I do not believe ALPA has any desire to change the status quo either. ALPA is in my opinion a failed organization when it comes to representation.

 

[jonjuan]

Strike declared illegal by British court

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8418805.stm

British Airways cabin crew strike illegal, court rules


A strike by British Airways cabin crew planned for Christmas has been declared illegal in a High Court ruling.
The court agreed with BA that the cabin crew's union, Unite, had not correctly balloted its members on the strike action.
The injunction means that the 12-day strike cannot now go ahead.
Unite called it "a disgraceful day for democracy" and vowed to hold a fresh ballot of cabin crew if the dispute with BA was not resolved.
British Airways said the decision would be welcomed by "hundreds of thousands of families in the UK and around the world".
"There was never any need for a strike and we hope that Unite will take this opportunity to reflect before deciding its next steps," a statement from the company said.
"In recent days, we believe Unite has formed a better understanding of our position and of the ways in which we could move forward.
"It has also become very clear that our customers do not believe that old-style trade union militancy is relevant to our efforts to move British Airways back toward profitability."
Unite's joint general secretaries, Derek Simpson and Tony Woodley said the dispute was "far from settled".
"While we have never wanted this dispute, it is a disgraceful day for democracy when a court can overrule such an overwhelming decision by employees taken in a secret ballot," they said.
"The fact remains that this dispute is not settled.
"BA must accept that there can be no resolution except through negotiation, failing which there will inevitably be a further ballot for industrial action."

 

[PurpleInMEM]

Why can't we just be part of the "free market" and influence it the way Wall Street and bad management does all the time. Rid the "free market" of the artificial environment imposed by the RLA, let us fall under the same NLRA rules as school teachers, cops, and garbage men. When the contract expires, it's expired baby. Time to light up some 55 gallon drums, eat takeout, and bust heads of any schlub willing to take a 2x4 upside the head for trying to collect the trash...er I mean fly the air machine. The RLA is sham legislation originally designed to keep those uppity railroad unions from disrupting the profit pipeline. It has NOTHING to do with national interest.

Pilot-sheep need to toss off the starched white collar professional BS and realize that conflict is the only way to get what they want; a bigger slice of the pie.

 

[Mike man]

When the contract expires, it's expired baby

What did Congress say was the primary purpose of the RLA?
Railroad management wanted to keep the trains moving by putting an end to “wildcat” strikes. Railroad workers wanted to make sure they had an opportunity to organize, be recognized as the exclusive bargaining agent in dealing with a company, negotiate new agreements and enforce existing ones. Both sides “won” with the passage of the RLA. Workers won the right to form unions, negotiate with the railroads and to have a grievance system imposed on the companies. The railroads won the right to keep commerce from being disrupted without going through a lengthy and complicated process.


We can't have that, we have to keep the trains moving, what would all of our train passengers do if we had a wildcat strike?


There would be no trains to get them from San Juan to NYC...clearly a law passed in 1926 (amended in 1936 to include airlines) is relevant to the working conditions of a nearly railroadless country, 90+ years since it was passed.


Wasn't there a mass transit strike during the world series in PHL? It seem to me like the trains would be considered, well, a train...why do they get to go on strike?