Put Down The Laptops and Fly the Plane NWA

[jetpilotbc]

I bet they were distracted by each other. Using your laptop sounds better than your doing your co-pilot.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

"These guys have had 80% of their procedures and policy in their airline get changed over the past few months, plus the way they bid changed very significantly this month."


Read between the lines...The excuses are coming out...The new procedures shouldn't even be a factor unless you are trying to make excuses......

So every time the NTSB investigates an accident, they put out a "probable excuse"?

No, they put out the facts - an "explanation," to use a fancy word I heard somewhere.

Step away from the keyboard.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Yup...

No excuses for what they did. They farked up bad... and what's coming to them is coming.

I can see that their explaination (both excuse and explaination start with the same to letters, Joe. They do not mean the same thing. Pull out the webster's next time) is plausible for what was actually going on in the cockpit, though.

 

[JohnDoe]

"These guys have had 80% of their procedures and policy in their airline get changed over the past few months, plus the way they bid changed very significantly this month."


Read between the lines...The excuses are coming out...The new procedures shouldn't even be a factor unless you are trying to make excuses......

It's ok joe. You can admit you were wrong.

You accused Peanuckle of making an excuse as to why they did this. He did no such thing. He was simply saying that the explanation for how this happened was plausible. In other words, believable.

He in no way said it was a valid excuse or justification for their actions.

 

[ron burgundy]

What's getting stupid isn't the media coverage. Who can blame them? These two morons keep changing their story to make this whole situation look more and more egregious each time. First everyone thought they were asleep. Then they said "no, we were in a heated discussion" about company policy. Now they say they were on their laptops. They are progressively making this profession look more and more like a joke with each statement. Tomorrow they're going to say they were mutually masturbating.

The media has multiple goals. Sensationalism and accountability are among them. They found a sensational story, and they want accountability. No thanks to these two d**chebags. It only took a few months for multiple boneheaded incidents to make what Sully did for pilot PR to completely be overshadowed and vanish.

Wait a second. Is that not allowed? Damnit!

 

[ron burgundy]

Should have been running "Flight Aware" in the backround.

 

[Flybywire44]

Hopefully they're over age 60 anyway...

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Hopefully they're over age 60 anyway...

CA is 53-- a 1985 hire, FO is 54, hired in 1997.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Hopefully they're over age 60 anyway...

Why do you hope that?

 

[Abernathy]

Should have been running "Flight Aware" in the backround.

Touché

 

[rumorhasit]

Just deactivate the auto pilot and make everyone hand fly the damn thing.... That'll show em all!!!!!!!

 

[Checknsix]

I'm sure there is a guy or two here that has had a laptop open in the cockpit...legitimately or not.

Do you really think you could miss an irate controller calling your name repeatedly?

Not a plausible explanation in my experience.

 

[Eagle757shark]

I bet they were distracted by each other. Using your laptop sounds better than your doing your co-pilot.

For some reason I believe you may be on to something that no one wants to even acknowledge! Since this thing went down, we've heard several stories and each time it keeps changing with these two. Sounds like the cheating spouse that keeps lying to cover a lie. This story still doesn't add up! How the HELL do you miss radio calls, ACARS messages dinging at you, and all those other things after so long if you were not sleep? This story still doesn't add up. Now they say they were on their laptops? Hmmm.....convienent but still doesn't make sense! I BELIEVE THESE TWO PILOTS WERE ENGAGED IN SOME TYPE OF SEXUAL ACTIVITY!
Boys come clean and stop lying!!! This profession just keeps taking the hits!

 

[JumpersAway]

I was hoping that it was true regarding the "heated argument". I figure that between Colgan and another debate in the cockpit about the crappy state of our industry, it might shed more light on our plight to increase pay and attain better work rules.

I've got some real questions about a Captain that allows the use of a laptop (especially two) in the flight deck........

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Now, if this had been a Southwest crew -- We all here at the "Forum" would have chimed a prediction around, "...heard there was a flight attendant or two in the cockpit, lap dances etc..." and it would be, hmm - plausible, and perhaps believable.

Got to admit, they have a corporate culture you can embrace.
Oh, for the good ole days and young flight attendants.


Chances happening at NW: nil.

You aren't trying to imply we still have young - and female - FA's at Southwest are you?

 

[PlaneDrvr]

Heck, don't let your memories get short...we had a guy have his gun go off in the cockpit, and he just got his job back.

Think this is any worse?

At least your guy had something to back him up as to why it happened.[/QUOTE]

Well, i can even remember the charter airline (i think it was a B737) that had an actual 'wet T-shirt contest' on the airplane, inflight, during spring break time; and they managed not to 'overshoot' the airport.

Heck, they even let the girls change clothes in the cockpit (that's what got the Capt. fired), and still didn't overshoot.

But, that would have been a better 'distraction'

PD

maybe someone with a better memory can chime in with the airline name, can't think if it right now. Getting old, duh.

 

[mamba20]

Guys calm down! My god they have barley begun the investigation on this thing and your already saying were going to have cameras and cavity checks?! First and foremost I don't buy the we were both on our lap tops thing. Something weird was going on there, look at home many times they have changed their stories! They are lying about something thats for sure but let the system work and discover what it was.

Second, If they were truly distracted by reading, using their computers, whatever then THEY not us are going to pay the price for that. I don't think there is a single FOM out there that dosen't say something to the effect of "reading of books, newspapers, listening to music or use of personal computers is prohibited" IF this is what really happened then this crew and this crew only violated the regs and they will be punished accordingly. I seriously doubt there are going to be cameras in the cockpit because of this. Stop blowing this out of proportion. Let the system work and lets see what happens.

 

[screamingpax]

I honestly still think they were sleeping. To go an hour and 18 min without contact? Who can do that and not start to wonder what is going on? Even if they weren't sleeping, had they just said from the beginning, we had inadvertantly fallen asleep due to lack of rest and being fatigued but feared for getting in trouble for calling in fatigued this would be pointed in a different direction entirely.

 

[AKAAB]

I bet they were distracted by each other. Using your laptop sounds better than your doing your co-pilot.

Gives new meaning to when a guy announces, "I'm heads-down."

 

[Scope out RJ's]

"These guys have had 80% of their procedures and policy in their airline get changed over the past few months, plus the way they bid changed very significantly this month."


Read between the lines...The excuses are coming out...The new procedures shouldn't even be a factor unless you are trying to make excuses......

:crying::crying::crying:

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Maybe they can now go to work for ASA joe?
After all, your past flying record is the reason you're stuck there!:laugh:
Of course to follow in your footsteps, they'll have to PFT!

 

[Fugawe]

Guys shoulda stuck with a 'sleeping' story. Might have been defensible with all the attention on fatigue today.

Laptop story will get them fired, and probably tickets pulled.

They screwed up, they know it and we know it. We've all screwed up. No metal was bent fortunately, just tons of egg face.

I don't condone what they did -- it was a professional screw up, no matter what the excuse is. But, I do know that I (and any of us) can be a heartbeat away from a hearing on any given day of flying. So save the personal attacks on these guys.

 

[b82rez]

CNN is interviewing a flight instructor in a Cessna simulator right now. Awesomeness

 

[Fugawe]

CNN is interviewing a flight instructor in a Cessna simulator right now. Awesomeness

Gotta love how the press goes right to the experts..............

 

[densoo]

If that's the case then I think we'll see USA Todays blowing around taxiways everywhere...

...........

 

[rigger]

Guys shoulda stuck with a 'sleeping' story. Might have been defensible with all the attention on fatigue today.

Laptop story will get them fired, and probably tickets pulled.

They screwed up, they know it and we know it. We've all screwed up. No metal was bent fortunately, just tons of egg face.

I don't condone what they did -- it was a professional screw up, no matter what the excuse is. But, I do know that I (and any of us) can be a heartbeat away from a hearing on any given day of flying. So save the personal attacks on these guys.

Of course they were asleep! You are right they should have told the truth and moved on, but they did not have the balls to admit a screw up and now it get's worse for all of us.

I have a real problem with this whole thing....we are professionals, we are always on here harping on being a professional, but when it's time for two of our brothers to stand up and be a professional we make excuses for them and fall back on the "anyone of us could be here next" Well no kidding, If you screw up as a professional then stand up make no excuses and take what is going to happen, Then put your head down and work your butt off to make sure it can't/wont happen to the next guy!

I and you have all screwed up plenty of times...the big difference in todays world is it's not MY fault!!! I am so damn sick and tired of that attitude....this is no different then landing on a taxie-way or missing your altitude or _______________ fill in the blank!!!! If you make a MISTAKE admit it move on and help the industry get better....don't act like these two losers and try to hide inside the industry and make it worse for those of us who have tried to be a true professional during the good and the BAD times.....

 

[Whine Lover]

"I don't think there is a single FOM out there that dosen't say something to the effect of "reading of books, newspapers, listening to music or use of personal computers is prohibited"

Hmmm...Both airlines I worked at had no such policy or prohibitive statement in the GOM/FOM or anywhere else for that matter.



YKMKR

 

[skyaddict]

"I don't think there is a single FOM out there that dosen't say something to the effect of "reading of books, newspapers, listening to music or use of personal computers is prohibited"

Hmmm...Both airlines I worked at had no such policy or prohibitive statement in the GOM/FOM or anywhere else for that matter.



YKMKR

Rest assured that every company will soon have it plastered all over the place and even added to some checklists- just pray one is not paired too long with a FOM Nazi. Plus, I am betting this publicity just subtracted ten years from the time until cockpit video recorders are forced on us. Chuck Schumer or some other grandstander is probably calling for new FARs and a special task force as we speak.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I keep hearing that the CVR was pulled for investigation. I thought the CVR could not be used to go after pilots in investigations? They should have kept their damn mouths shut and let the union handle it. Now they are screwed.

 

[CaptJax]

Another Wag on NWA Flt 188

Jon Carroll - SF Chron

Tuesday, October 27, 2009

Well, this is mysterious. It seems that a Northwest Airlines flight bound from San Diego to Minneapolis overshot its mark by about 150 miles, then had to turn around, come back and land, more than an hour behind schedule.

Now, I know Minneapolis is not Mexico City, but surely something must have been visible even at 37,000 feet. And besides, as I understand it, airplanes are now equipped with instruments that tell the pilots where they are on the globe (your car may have a similar device), so the confusion is, well, confusing.

Maybe they had the woman's voice switched off. You know, the one that says "Turn left in two blocks" or, my favorite, "You have reached your destination." It's hard to imagine that the woman was being annoying, as she sometimes is, because she can't have been saying much. "You're still flying toward Minneapolis. Good going!" That would be unprofessional.

But the story gets more bizarre. The pilots did not respond to radio calls from various ground control functionaries saying, "Uh, guys, you might want to start descending to Minneapolis because it's, like, right under you."

And you have to wonder about the passengers. They knew they were supposed to get in at 8:01; they might have become suspicious at 8:05 when the plane had not started descending and they were still free to move about the cabin and it was entirely OK for them to have their seat backs in the full downright position.

I envision at least one person asking a flight attendant what was going on, and the flight attendant (who might also have been aware of the time, because she probably wanted to have a real meal just like everyone else on the plane) saying, "Let me just ask the captain" and going up to the front. And what would she have found?

Well, according to sources, the pilots told the FBI that "they were in a heated discussion over airline policy and they lost situational awareness." Now, that's never a phrase you want to hear in an official airplane report - the pilots "lost situational awareness." I mean, I don't care how heated your discussion is, if the flight controllers are squawking at you and the little clock is saying 8:20 and you haven't even begun to take the plane down, that's gotta be one hell of an argument.

"OK, Ted, you want to take it outside? Let's take it outside. Put this damn thing down anywhere and we'll pop the emergency chute and we'll see who has a better understanding of corporate governance."

One online friend suggested: "Perhaps they were in a serious argument about their likelihood of being laid off, having their salaries cut by 75%, being shifted to the airline's nonunion, cut-rate regional affiliate, or losing their health insurance or pension plan."

It is true that being a pilot is not quite as glamorous as it used to be, but that's true of being a doctor too. Heck, I remember when television shows featured newspaper columnists as heroes. Still, one would hope that the pilots would be able to control their resentments while they were on the job, just as I do, except in the previous sentence.

In a way, I suppose it's comforting to know that the plane can just fly itself off into the vasty wastelands of the North Woods while the pilots debated FCC regulations in re: cockpit safety. Although, personally, I think there was a woman involved, or a man, an object of affection who had claim to the hearts of both pilots, because only physical passion can make a person forget that he or she is carrying 144 passengers on a big airplane.

Another suggestion has been made: In February 2007, a plane overshot the Hilo airport in Hawaii by 30 miles, and both pilots eventually acknowledged that they had fallen asleep. Ah, that island languor; so intoxicating. So maybe the pilots, rather than being deep in a complex argument about airline regulations, were in a deep snooze, dreaming of good times to come in St. Paul.

In which case, I think, even better news. A plane can fly itself safely and comfortably for 150 miles (beating the old record by 120 miles) while both pilots are in the arms of Morpheus. Didn't the flight attendants suspect something? Where was that deadheading air marshal who's supposed to be guarding our welfare? Maybe terrorists just have to wait for the pilots to doze off before initiating their evil plans. OK, that last part is not such good news.

I think maybe cabins need another automatic voice device that just screams "Wake up!" at random intervals. What could it hurt?

Uh, tower, we have a situation here.

I think I see Nome, Alaska, off to my left. Can you check my position?

 

[crashpad]

I and you have all screwed up plenty of times...the big difference in todays world is it's not MY fault!!! I am so damn sick and tired of that attitude.......

Amen brother! I threw a middle aged man off my plane last week when he told my flight attendant: "You need to get your $hit together!"...
The look on his face when he was escorted from the plane was one of utter confusion as to what was going on.
Hmmm, let me check my tolerance meter for people who don't take accountability for their behavior......Yep, still at zero. Buh-Bye Pretzel-Boi.