When does/Will the RAH/F9 deal close?

[Quiet Flight]

Anybody know if there is a date scheduled to finalize and close the RAH purchase of Frontier? Hearing rumors on the coconut telegraph that the deal may or may not happen due to funding. Thanks.

 

[Metro752]

The deal has a very good chance of not happening.

 

[BoilerUP]

The deal has a very good chance of not happening.

Have a source for that, or is it just wishful thinking?

 

[Metro752]

Speculation from message boards, and articles I've read. Nothing clearly written in stone.

Oh, and wishful thinking Boiler,

 

[Avee8tr]

It has a very GOOD chance of happening:


Sep 2, 2009
Frontier Airlines’ Plan of Reorganization Approved By Creditors



Important Step toward Bankruptcy Emergence
DENVER, September 02, 2009 - Frontier Airlines Holdings, Inc. (OTCBB: FRNTQ) today announced that its Plan of Reorganization has been approved by the necessary majority of creditors enabled to vote on the Plan. In fact, an overwhelming majority of eligible voting creditors voted in favor of the Plan, with 92.58 percent of the voting creditors and 99.84 percent of the dollar amount of voting claims approving the Plan.
In addition, the deadline for filing objections to the Plan has now passed and only a small number of objections were filed. Frontier’s legal representatives believe most are technical or procedural in nature, and Frontier should be able to consensually resolve most or all of the objections, setting the stage for a largely uncontested Confirmation Hearing.
“This has been the hallmark of our restructuring efforts,” said Frontier President and CEO Sean Menke. “We have been able to completely restructure our business and reduce our costs to among the lowest in the industry. We have also developed alternative revenue streams through our branded AirFairs program, the introduction of ancillary revenues and the expansion of our network. We were able to do all of this in a cooperative manner with the constituents in our bankruptcy case, and we expect that to continue as we enter the final stage of our bankruptcy proceedings.”
Frontier’s Confirmation Hearing is scheduled for Thursday, Sept. 10, in the Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York.

 

[Daddy]

Closes on 9/17 I think

 

[RedDogC130]

TAKEN FROM ANOTHER SITE.....NAME OF PERSON BEING WITHHELD

I was chatting with a friend of mine yesterday who’s pretty senior at Frontier (12 years). Apparently, Republic’s fearless leader was in Denver two or three days ago, addressing Frontier employees and addressing their concerns. He made it clear that he would hang on to F9 as long as it was profitable. If F9 were then to lose money, all bets would be off. My friend was pretty upset and said, “in retrospect, our pilots’ animosity for Southwest may have caused us to not examine Republic closely enough.”

 

[PropPiedmont]

TAKEN FROM ANOTHER SITE.....NAME OF PERSON BEING WITHHELD

I was chatting with a friend of mine yesterday who’s pretty senior at Frontier (12 years). Apparently, Republic’s fearless leader was in Denver two or three days ago, addressing Frontier employees and addressing their concerns. He made it clear that he would hang on to F9 as long as it was profitable. If F9 were then to lose money, all bets would be off. My friend was pretty upset and said, “in retrospect, our pilots’ animosity for Southwest may have caused us to not examine Republic closely enough.”

Those two lines just don't make any sense together. Either this "friend" has been living in a dark closet for the last 20 years, or it's B.S. I truly can't understand ignorance of this nature.

 

[The Drizzle]

TAKEN FROM ANOTHER SITE.....NAME OF PERSON BEING WITHHELD

I was chatting with a friend of mine yesterday who’s pretty senior at Frontier (12 years). Apparently, Republic’s fearless leader was in Denver two or three days ago, addressing Frontier employees and addressing their concerns. He made it clear that he would hang on to F9 as long as it was profitable. If F9 were then to lose money, all bets would be off. My friend was pretty upset and said, “in retrospect, our pilots’ animosity for Southwest may have caused us to not examine Republic closely enough.”

So, RAh should hold on to an unprofitable asset? Who do you think BB is, teh CEO of UAL?

 

[Avee8tr]

"He made it clear that he would hang on to F9 as long as it was profitable. If F9 were then to lose money, all bets would be off."

I went to every meeting with BB and this is completely false. It was never said nor did he ever "make it clear".
Maybe the SWA guys should worry about more about their shotty maintenance and less about the well being of the F9 guys.
Get over it already.

 

[dougdrvr]

"He made it clear that he would hang on to F9 as long as it was profitable. If F9 were then to lose money, all bets would be off."

I went to every meeting with BB and this is completely false. It was never said nor did he ever "make it clear".
Maybe the SWA guys should worry about more about their shotty maintenance and less about the well being of the F9 guys.
Get over it already.

Did you still have your wallet when it was over?

 

[Daddy]

shotty?

 

[huronip]

"He made it clear that he would hang on to F9 as long as it was profitable. If F9 were then to lose money, all bets would be off."

I went to every meeting with BB and this is completely false. It was never said nor did he ever "make it clear".
Maybe the SWA guys should worry about more about their shotty maintenance and less about the well being of the F9 guys.
Get over it already.

SWA will handle the maintenance. How will F9 guys handle this if it happens?

Republic trims more Midwest crews as Frontier acquisition nears completion

September 3, 2:15 AM

More Midwest Airlines flight attendants and pilots will lose their jobs as the airline transitions from Boeing 717’s to regional jet equipment operated by new parent company Republic Airways Holdings. The airline will trim 59 more flight crew jobs effective October 31. Republic-operated flights are staffed with crews represented by the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, whose contracted pay rates are much lower than their MidwestAir Line Pilots Association and the Association of Flight Attendants. counterparts, currently represented by the The two companies are in the process of merging the seniority lists, and current Midwest crews will have the option to rejoin the company once the lists are combined, albeit at lower pay and likely less seniority, depending on how the contract negotiations develop.
AFA leaders indicated their members expressed frustration over the slow progress, while Teamsters representatives explained the process is being delayed to discuss the inclusion of the thousand strong group of non-union Frontier flight attendants. That group is expected to be integrated into the seniority list once Republic completes acquisition of Frontier in October. Republic has not yet announced whether there will be similar layoffs at Frontier, as the acquisition is not yet complete and the company’s plans for Frontier have not yet been made public. Frontier operates a fleet of Airbus equipment, which Republic has made no statement on, but if it makes a similar move and replaces some of those aircraft with its own regional jet equipment, layoffs could be expected from the Frontier work group as well.
ALPA is still in negotiations with Republic, but the holding company has already made plans to completely eliminate their work group when the Boeing 717’s they fly are phased out of the Midwest fleet in favor of Republic-operated regional jets. Republic already operates some flights for Frontier Airlines, and may have a more difficult time merging seniority lists with the union represented Frontier flight crews, the same group that failed to reach an agreement with Southwest Airlines pilots in August, effectively killing Southwest’s bid for Frontier. The Southwest deal would have offered a position to every existing Frontier pilot with a substantial pay increase, but the two groups could not come to an agreement on integrating the two seniority lists. That leaves the Frontier Airlines Pilots Association to strike a bargain with the Teamsters – a notoriously thorny process. Teamsters and the AFA have already requested federal arbitration to settle their seniority issues, a procedure that normally leaves one group disappointed.
In other news, Frontier announced a code share agreement with Midwest effective September 2, 2009 for flights departing September 8 or later. The agreement adds Pittsburgh and Cleveland to the Frontier route map, and increases service to other destinations, although a quick check of Frontier’s website shows significantly higher fares for the Midwest-operated flights. The code share is currently only unilateral, with Frontier selling seats on Midwest flights, and not vice versa.
The furloughed flight crews join over a hundred other staff already laid off by Republic almost immediately after the sale was complete.

 

[ricj41]

You do understand that Frontier made a profit of 17 mil in July don't you. We initially were going to get rid of 3 318s in the fall. They are now staying and we are getting I believe 5 320s in feb-march. The old management of midwest made the decision to get rid of the 717s a long time ago. Before Republic bought them.
The business models of Midwest and Frontier were completely different. They couldn't even get to the west coast with the 17s. Frontiers casm is the lowest in the industry. Don't worry about us.

 

[vixin]

Boy and think how much extra money I would have if only I didnt have to pay that damn mortgage note I signed. Silly me!

 

[StaySeated]

Boy and think how much extra money I would have if only I didnt have to pay that damn mortgage note I signed. Silly me!

Yet another "you dont pay your bills in bk" mis-statements.

F9 is still publicly held, and all of the SEC statements are public as well. Feel free to find any operating expenses that are being skipped. The fact of the matter is operating in BK is actually more costly than operating outside Ch. 11. F9 has been paying over $2 Million per month since last April in legal fees. Obviously, several contracts were rejected at the beginning (RAH, hotels, leases, oh yeah, pieces of FAPA's CBA) but to say that F9 is not "paying the mortagage" is not accurate. Every aircraft is being paid for, as well as every other operating expense. But don't take my word for it, you can look it up and verify the info.

Also, the BB quote is false. He was in Denver for two days. He had two pilot-only meetings and one employee-wide meeting. He never said anything about keeping F9 as long as it is profitable. He did, very clearly, state that there were going to be massive job losses due to the fact that over 21 cities currently have F9 and YX operations. There are going to be huge layoffs.

He also said all 56 furloughed FAPA pilots will be recalled within a year.

 

[airlinepilot]

Massive job losses but all FAPA pilots will be back to work within a year. Sooooo....does that mean FAPA pilots will not face any of the layoffs?

 

[ricj41]

At the outstations where we both operate we won't need duplicate gates, ticket counters, etc. That is where the layoffs are coming from. As well as the back office stuff. Don't need corporate offices in Milwaukee, Denver and Indy.

 

[hockeypilot44]

I think the Frontier pilots are being naive. Either they're going to end up with substantially less pay or their planes will be replaced with 190's.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

They can't replace Frontier's planes with -190s, because the -190s aren't big enought. It's different with the -717s at MWA, because they only held 100 people. Now, Republic may change routes around, and put some -190s on old Frontier Airbus routes, but then they'll put those Airbus' on other different routes to take advantage of their attributes, that no other plane in the Republic system has right now.

cliff
NBO

 

[dougdrvr]

Hi!

They can't replace Frontier's planes with -190s, because the -190s aren't big enought. It's different with the -717s at MWA, because they only held 100 people. Now, Republic may change routes around, and put some -190s on old Frontier Airbus routes, but then they'll put those Airbus' on other different routes to take advantage of their attributes, that no other plane in the Republic system has right now.

cliff
NBO

The 190s are replacing 147 seat aircraft also and so will the Airbus. Everyone seems to forget that Midwest operated 13 Md80s aat this time last year when the 170s started showing up.

 

[BE200drvr]

The problem is no one is looking at the economy. Everyone is thinking the economy is improving. Take another look.... unemployment just reached 9.7 %. If you include part-time workers and people who have given up looking for work, it is 16.8 %. I'm not buying the stimulus working for many many reasons, which will soon play out.

RAH will most likely put 190's on the F9 routes because of the amount of people (recession) flying and the cost effectiveness of the airplane and the amount you have to pay the crews flying that airplane.

RAH is backed by Wexford Captial and they have the cash to close the deal. That rumor is far fetched, only BB trying to get lower gate prices in DEN. RAH will close the deal.

SWA guys lay off and let this play out. I'm tired of seeing SWA people still hoping the deal fails. Ultimately SWA will add increased pressure on RAH and eventually the economy will force BB to disband the whole operation.

Hi!

They can't replace Frontier's planes with -190s, because the -190s aren't big enought. It's different with the -717s at MWA, because they only held 100 people. Now, Republic may change routes around, and put some -190s on old Frontier Airbus routes, but then they'll put those Airbus' on other different routes to take advantage of their attributes, that no other plane in the Republic system has right now.

cliff
NBO

 

[BoilerUP]

The problem is no one is looking at the economy. Everyone is thinking the economy is improving. Take another look.... unemployment just reached 9.7 %. If you include part-time workers and people who have given up looking for work, it is 16.8 %. I'm not buying the stimulus working for many many reasons, which will soon play out.

Unemployment is usually the last metric to show improvement as a recession ends.

 

[firstthird]

which is why it is called a 'lagging' indicator. but don't let basic econ 101 interfere with a good argument is what I always say.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Bedford has already said that for lots of the MKE routes, the -170s are too small. I'm sure they will find a lot of routes to use the Airbus' on.

cliff
NBO