Am I The Only One Left?

[crj567]

Instead of calling me a tool why don't you logically debunk my reasoning? Grow up and act like an adult. Name calling shows your own immaturity.

Here is some logic for your silly ass:

A-You used to wait tables, so you know what happens to non-tippers. (You would simply spit in their food the next time you see them dining at your fine establishment.) Don't try and pretend that this doesn't happen.

PLUS

B-Since the van driver has no real recourse-(you simply don't see him or her again,) you do not feel compelled to tip, despite the fact that he or she has just performed a service for you, and that service has value.

EQUALS:

You being a GIGANTIC TOOL.

People with any level of class tip drivers simply because it is the right thing to do. I fail to see the difference between the service the driver has just performed by placing your bags at your feet (saving you the time and trouble of wresting them out of the van) and the service performed by the guy who refills your Shirley Temple and gets you another side of Hannah Montana Kraft Cheese and Macaroni.

-I am not here to understand or excuse your rudeness. My only objective is to highlight the fact that you, sir, are a cheapskate toolbag. You (and all those like you) should be ashamed.

 

[xjgearbtch]

Who peed in your cherrio's thanks for the good laugh

 

[DrewBlows]

Who peed in your cherrio's thanks for the good laugh

The van driver, because you didn't tip him!

 

[pipejockey]

Why should a van driver be tipped and not a pilot? Are we not doing the same thing? And I just as soon put my own damn bag in the van and take it out again. And do you really think the RJ pilots should have to tip? The van driver is paid more money than them, at least more than the FO's. It's one thing if you ask to be taken somewhere to eat or something. But no way should the driver be tipped for doing his damn job of picking you up at the airport and taking you back the next day. It's his job!!

 

[Gator1999]

Why should a van driver be tipped and not a pilot? Are we not doing the same thing? And I just as soon put my own damn bag in the van and take it out again. And do you really think the RJ pilots should have to tip? The van driver is paid more money than them, at least more than the FO's. It's one thing if you ask to be taken somewhere to eat or something. But no way should the driver be tipped for doing his damn job of picking you up at the airport and taking you back the next day. It's his job!!

Man, I could have saved a lot of money in tips if I had only taken your advice and compared W2's with the van driver to and from the airport to determine if I had to tip him or not...and since I was an RJ pilot I was automatically exempted from tipping as opposed to non-RJ pilots. Classy!

 

[Max Q]

There seems to be quite a number of people in here who are aware of the van driver's pay. Care to indulge?

 

[regionalcap]

I just saw a listing for a van driver at a Dallas hotel. Pay is $7.50 an hour.

 

[pipejockey]

first of all, many so called van drivers are much more than just that. They are a hotel "everyman". MX, engineering, driver, etc etc. And I am sure few, if any at all have anything more than a highschool diploma, many have not even graduated from HS based on the quality I have seen from some. If they want decent pay, perhaps they should have gone to college and earned a college degree or some sort of technical training in some profession. Based on the the nature of the job they do, and the lack of much responsibility or expectation of their performance, I don't think I should have to pay a hotel employee for picking me up at the airport and driving me to the hotel. I mean it is not a function above and beyond what they are obligated to do. Now taking you to a local restaurant, thats a different story and I will compensate them for that.

And no one has yet told me what a van driver does in the process of taking you to the hotel and returning you to the airport the next day that warrants a tip. Pilots pretty much do the same thing involving MUCH more responsibility and competence and technical training not too mention the exacting standards we must adhere to. I'm not saying I think we deserve tips, I'm just saying a van driver doesn't deserve a handout either.

And maybe the buffoon who said that I stated we should compare W2's to determine if we should tip him or not apparently didn't read my post. I merely contend that those who are suffering financial hardship, which any Regional FO does and even some TP CA's are if they are trying to support themselves on their salary alone, should not have to spend upwards of 30 bucks a month, nearly $400 a year just because our jobs require us to receive hotel transportation to and from the job. If you have 400 bucks a year to tip van drivers, congratulations. I DON'T!! If the van drivers want more money then maybe they too can spend a small fortune on a college degree and tons of flight training and become pilots like us!! Errr, uhhh, what am I thinking? Disregard. Momentarily I thought I was a pilot pre 9-11 when we actually had a reasonable career path to big money. Silly me. I forgot I am involved in a profession with a bunch of back stabbers and sellouts with the most impotent union known to the history of mankind. ALPO!!

 

[pipejockey]

I just saw a listing for a van driver at a Dallas hotel. Pay is $7.50 an hour.

That is on the low side. Average is going to be 10 an hour. Considering all the hotel vans I have taken with multiple crews and other common passengers, and an average of a van every 30 mins with 4 people on board. That is an extra 8 bucks an hour on top of their hourly rate. So on average you can say they earn at least 15 up to over 20 bucks an hour. Thats 500 to over 600 a week. Thats more than most regional fo's. So I won't be shedding a tear for the van drivers who have absolutely nothing invested in their dead end careers unlike most pilots who actually paid for their own education and training(mommy and daddy funded pilots don't count) who have EVERYTHING invested in our dead end careers!!

 

[Crash Bandicoot]

There is no excuse to not tipping. You are a cheap bastard if you don't. You should feel like sh!t every time you don't. It's etiquette just like tipping at a restaurant. There is no way to justify it other than it does not bother you to stiff people.

There are reasons not to tip other than being cheap. Lazy, late, dangerous or rude are all legitimate excuses not to tip.

I still tip the guy for loading my bags although I would rather do it myself.

 

[Gator1999]

And maybe the buffoon who said that I stated we should compare W2's to determine if we should tip him or not apparently didn't read my post. I merely contend that those who are suffering financial hardship, which any Regional FO does and even some TP CA's are if they are trying to support themselves on their salary alone, should not have to spend upwards of 30 bucks a month, nearly $400 a year just because our jobs require us to receive hotel transportation to and from the job. If you have 400 bucks a year to tip van drivers, congratulations. I DON'T!! If the van drivers want more money then maybe they too can spend a small fortune on a college degree and tons of flight training and become pilots like us!! Errr, uhhh, what am I thinking? Disregard. Momentarily I thought I was a pilot pre 9-11 when we actually had a reasonable career path to big money. Silly me. I forgot I am involved in a profession with a bunch of back stabbers and sellouts with the most impotent union known to the history of mankind. ALPO!!

And I merely contend that if you are of the mindset that since you are poor and that the van driver obviously makes more money than you is good enough for you to be the cheap a$$ that you are and not throw a buck his way. Cry me a river you RJ scumbag, I was once where you were and you know what...I tipped the drivers because it's the "right" thing to do. They provide a service, and you tip them...that's the way it works here in the US of A ******************************. That is the way it is whether you like it or not. You think you are the only one making crap wages and paying off that expensive degree? You think you are the only one trying to make more out of this once glorious career? You are the epitome of bitter RJ scum that I have long forgotten since I was lucky enough to escape from years ago. It's people like you that bitch about your career, bitch about your regional ALPA representation, what you didn't get and who's to blame, where your resume is out to and then plant one and kill a bunch of people because you lost focus and took off on the wrong runway. I hope NetJets never buys me a ticket on your flight, I'd rather take the van with the driver who you stiffed on the tip. Cheap A$$.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

I never tip the van driver. I suppose all you wussies who do also tip Starbucks coffee girls, sub shop employees, and the Great American Bagel stooges.
You see a tip jar or a van driver and feel that people will think you're cheap if you don't leave a tip? Man up, and don't wear cowboy boots in the cockpit.

 

[Ezralite]

Thanks to all the non-tippers for further degrading our profession with your lack of class. Now go spend that extra dollar on your tall boy of Natty Light.

 

[crj567]

Yep-

The next time I fly with some non-tipper, I will take a wiz in his NattyLight while he is away from the bar.... He will never be able to taste the difference.

-Cheap Bastards.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I will always tip unless there is some serious attitude from the driver or unless I've spent all my dollar bills on General Lee's wife.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I will always tip unless there is some serious attitude from the driver or unless I've spent all my dollar bills on General Lee's wife.

Whoa....some inhouse division?

 

[platinum750]

You are cheap bastards who complain about the cheap passengers and you all the same

 

[Aviation Geek]

first of all, many so called van drivers are much more than just that. They are a hotel "everyman". MX, engineering, driver, etc etc. And I am sure few, if any at all have anything more than a highschool diploma, many have not even graduated from HS based on the quality I have seen from some. If they want decent pay, perhaps they should have gone to college and earned a college degree or some sort of technical training in some profession. Based on the the nature of the job they do, and the lack of much responsibility or expectation of their performance, I don't think I should have to pay a hotel employee for picking me up at the airport and driving me to the hotel. I mean it is not a function above and beyond what they are obligated to do. Now taking you to a local restaurant, thats a different story and I will compensate them for that.

Um. I was a hotel van driver. MEI/CFI, BA and MA. I did it to earn money while I was finishing up my CFIs. Would still do it now as there is a lull right now in folks seeking flight instruction. I find it rather insulting that you consider yourself superior to us low life's at the hotel. I find it rather sad that you just assume that all people in customer service are incapable of anything else. Or that it is somehow work that is not worthy.

FYI, the actual van driver. in most cases DOES NOT,decide when to run the van. The front desk clerk or front office supervisor tells them when to go based on their needs at the desk. The actual van schedule can be a nightmare. Flights are late, crews run behind, some station staff call when your flight is in range, others call when you hit the curb. Sometimes there are other guests that need picked up. The schedule of runs is different every single day, soemtimes every hour, because the needs of the customer change everyday.

Look at it like this... at 1800 Debbie Desk Clerk calls me and says the Express Jet crew needs picked up at Applebees; there is a Net Jets crew arriving at 1815 at the FBO and you need to drop off the ASA crew as the plane came off MX and is ready to go. I grab the keys and... oh the guest in room 348 needs to go to the mall.

Not everybody gets what they need. It has to be prioritized. We have contracts and commitments to each of those customers. MOST staff will do their best to take care of the customers. We, believe it or not, want you to come back despite being just a dumb beast of burden placed at the hotel only because I cannot do anything else. I needed that job while I experienced that magic that is flight.

 

[Aviation Geek]

Um. I was a hotel van driver. MEI/CFI, BA and MA. I did it to earn money while I was finishing up my CFIs. Would still do it now as there is a lull right now in folks seeking flight instruction. I find it rather insulting that you consider yourself superior to us low life's at the hotel. I find it rather sad that you just assume that all people in customer service are incapable of anything else. Or that it is somehow work that is not worthy.

FYI, the actual van driver. in most cases DOES NOT,decide when to run the van. The front desk clerk or front office supervisor tells them when to go based on their needs at the desk. The actual van schedule can be a nightmare. Flights are late, crews run behind, some station staff call when your flight is in range, others call when you hit the curb. Sometimes there are other guests that need picked up. The schedule of runs is different every single day, soemtimes every hour, because the needs of the customer change everyday.

Look at it like this... at 1800 Debbie Desk Clerk calls me and says the Express Jet crew needs picked up at Applebees; there is a Net Jets crew arriving at 1815 at the FBO and you need to drop off the ASA crew as the plane came off MX and is ready to go. I grab the keys and... oh the guest in room 348 needs to go to the mall.

Not everybody gets what they need. It has to be prioritized. We have contracts and commitments to each of those customers. MOST staff will do their best to take care of the customers. We, believe it or not, want you to come back despite being just a dumb beast of burden placed at the hotel only because I cannot do anything else. I needed that job while I experienced that magic that is flight.

And THANKS for all the dollar bills and advice. Most crews still tip.

 

[crj567]

And THANKS for all the dollar bills and advice. Most crews still tip.

I am glad to see that is the case.... I never would have guessed-given the cheapness of the crews I get stuck with. I guess it must have something to do with the crappy job our hiring people were doing back then...

 

[Max Q]

I am glad to see that is the case.... I never would have guessed-given the cheapness of the crews I get stuck with. I guess it must have something to do with the crappy job our hiring people were doing back then...

Back when?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Whoa....some inhouse division?

I've always made fun of GL with a few rare exceptions...

 

[WayBack]

Times are tough, knucklehead.

If I have cash, I tip. But at the rate of four 4 days a month, that's almost 300 hundred bucks a year. For a 10 year captain like yourself, that's pocket change... But not for the rest of us.

I agree.
But it's guys like this who think that the junior FO's who aren't furloughed should "just be happy to have a job, and deal with it". This guy probably hasn't been a FO in 9 yrs, and doesn't remember what it's like to live off ramen noodles while your 2 children eat the mac & cheese.

 

[pipejockey]

I never tip the van driver. I suppose all you wussies who do also tip Starbucks coffee girls, sub shop employees, and the Great American Bagel stooges.
You see a tip jar or a van driver and feel that people will think you're cheap if you don't leave a tip? Man up, and don't wear cowboy boots in the cockpit.

I whole heartedly agree. So all you holier than thou people who have 400 extra bucks a year to give a van driver, answer the question posed above? Do you tip the starbucks people, how about the fast food servers, the housekeeping staff, what about the rampers delivering you all those gate checked bags to you? What makes the van driver so special that he deserves a tip? The hotel employs them and is responsible for paying them a reasonable wage. If they are not paid a reasonable wage, it is not my concern. Just ask all the people who bitch about air fares and bag fees without any concern shown for the wages paid to half of the regional pilot workforce, which in many cases qualifies you for welfare and charity care.

I used to tip until I realized there would never be a financial payoff to having this job, and decided I needed to track my expenses to the penny and figure out where I could reasonably cut back just to put food in my mouth and a roof over my head, plus pay off my student loan debt by the time I lose my medical and be forced out of work. I saw 400 bucks went to van drivers and I just about fainted!! So needless to say, that is an unrealistic expense when you are living hand to mouth.

So for all you people who are so concerned about the financial welfare of the van driver....cry me a river!! And I never said that I was better than a van driver. I merely pointed out that those of us choosing this career attempted to make a better life for ourselves by getting a degree and going through all the flight training required involving a great deal of study and tanacity to complete. Just to have the legs cut out from under us by unscrupulous airline management teams that have taken away any semblance of a reasonable career path for about 70% of us. On the other hand a van driver merely had to answer a ad for a driver in the classified. Lets be a little realistic here. Most of the drivers I have encountered are not just earning a little money to get themselves through school, some yes, but most really have no other skill set they can use to earn a living. I don't think I am any better than anyone else. On the contrary, most of us are total losers for continuing to let management take a dump on us and not only expect, but demand what they demand from us for the pittance that many receive in this profession.

Do you all realize that mainline gate agents are paid more than regional fo's? Not to mention the guy that fuels the plane as well! I'm just saying that when you have a group of employees who are just struggling to survive, I think the last thing they need to be given a hard time about is their inability, and make no mistake it is an INABILITY to tip these drivers 400 a year. They are not choosing not to, they CAN'T!!! So for those of you that have a problem with it, blame this industries despicable management teams that value gate agents, skycaps, fuelers, rampers, and mechanics more than they do pilots as evidenced by all of these employee groups who are paid more than most regional fo's.

 

[LazyLightnin']

I agree.
But it's guys like this who think that the junior FO's who aren't furloughed should "just be happy to have a job, and deal with it". This guy probably hasn't been a FO in 9 yrs, and doesn't remember what it's like to live off ramen noodles while your 2 children eat the mac & cheese.

Exactly, the ones you hear in the crew lounge or on the bus saying, "I wish they'd just furlough so I could get my hours back up" so they can afford more gas for the boat. Then they get off the the bus, go to work, and one of those very junior FO's saves their jobs by keeping them from crossing the active without clearance.

 

[ke4akj1976]

Heres how I do it

I am a 12 year captain and can afford to tip a buck. If the rest of my crew for whatever reason cannot afford to do so, then I will cover for them. This is all contingent on being treated decently and not nearly killed.

 

[Dubya]

I am a 12 year captain and can afford to tip a buck. If the rest of my crew for whatever reason cannot afford to do so, then I will cover for them. This is all contingent on being treated decently and not nearly killed.

Dude, what's with the common sense and reason? Do you know where you are? Either join in the petty bickering or stand down.

Can i get a Mesa sucks?


W

 

[hockeypilot44]

I whole heartedly agree. So all you holier than thou people who have 400 extra bucks a year to give a van driver, answer the question posed above? Do you tip the starbucks people, how about the fast food servers, the housekeeping staff, what about the rampers delivering you all those gate checked bags to you? What makes the van driver so special that he deserves a tip? The hotel employs them and is responsible for paying them a reasonable wage. If they are not paid a reasonable wage, it is not my concern. Just ask all the people who bitch about air fares and bag fees without any concern shown for the wages paid to half of the regional pilot workforce, which in many cases qualifies you for welfare and charity care.

I used to tip until I realized there would never be a financial payoff to having this job, and decided I needed to track my expenses to the penny and figure out where I could reasonably cut back just to put food in my mouth and a roof over my head, plus pay off my student loan debt by the time I lose my medical and be forced out of work. I saw 400 bucks went to van drivers and I just about fainted!! So needless to say, that is an unrealistic expense when you are living hand to mouth.

So for all you people who are so concerned about the financial welfare of the van driver....cry me a river!! And I never said that I was better than a van driver. I merely pointed out that those of us choosing this career attempted to make a better life for ourselves by getting a degree and going through all the flight training required involving a great deal of study and tanacity to complete. Just to have the legs cut out from under us by unscrupulous airline management teams that have taken away any semblance of a reasonable career path for about 70% of us. On the other hand a van driver merely had to answer a ad for a driver in the classified. Lets be a little realistic here. Most of the drivers I have encountered are not just earning a little money to get themselves through school, some yes, but most really have no other skill set they can use to earn a living. I don't think I am any better than anyone else. On the contrary, most of us are total losers for continuing to let management take a dump on us and not only expect, but demand what they demand from us for the pittance that many receive in this profession.

Do you all realize that mainline gate agents are paid more than regional fo's? Not to mention the guy that fuels the plane as well! I'm just saying that when you have a group of employees who are just struggling to survive, I think the last thing they need to be given a hard time about is their inability, and make no mistake it is an INABILITY to tip these drivers 400 a year. They are not choosing not to, they CAN'T!!! So for those of you that have a problem with it, blame this industries despicable management teams that value gate agents, skycaps, fuelers, rampers, and mechanics more than they do pilots as evidenced by all of these employee groups who are paid more than most regional fo's.

You're a cheap bastard. You chose to work for a company that pays as little as it does just as the van driver chose not to get his degree (if he doesn't have one). I don't believe in tipping everyone, but tipping hotel van drivers and servers is industry standard. If you stiff him, it is because you are cheap. No excuses. You are just justifying how pathetic you are.

 

[WayBack]

You're a cheap bastard. You chose to work for a company that pays as little as it does just as the van driver chose not to get his degree (if he doesn't have one). I don't believe in tipping everyone, but tipping hotel van drivers and servers is industry standard. If you stiff him, it is because you are cheap. No excuses. You are just justifying how pathetic you are.

You ever watch the general public while getting off the van? I never see passengers tipping the van driver. So it's NOT industry standard.

 

[LazyLightnin']

Plus, comparing servers (someone who makes $2.50 an hour) to van drivers ($7.50 an hour) is a friggin stretch. Unlike servers, I doubt drivers expect a tip every time.

If I don't have a single I can't tip. Period. Even the Mexican drivers should understand that logic.