Delta Q

[RedRum]

Boo Frickin Hoooo Redrum....

My heart bleeds for ya....give it a rest ya damn $hitstirrer......

Boy that was a really enlightening post. Thanks for your input.

If you had a choice between Asia flying or a 5 day trip in the upper Midwest in the dead of Winter, which one would you take?

P.S. I am not trying to stir the pot, it already has been stirred. Life is good. I have a job, and more importantly, my health.

Cheers.

 

[licorice]

I know what you are saying about the early retirements. I misspoke. I understand they were leaving to get the lump sum. I understand most of your pilots are upset about the way that all panned out but the fact of the matter is that ANY pilot hired after 2007 has absolutely no right to be senior to a pilot who was hired prior to 9/11. Both companies went into BK on the same day!
...Agreed, but I wouldn't say "absolutely no right"...more like "shouldn't be". Afterall, it was your MEC who went for the GRAND SLAM HOME RUN in the form of across-the-board DOH, knowing that the worst they could possibly get was a relative position merge. Did it ever occur to you that the arbitrators had to choose between the lesser of two evils...and that DOH with 10 year fences would have been a complete, and utter disaster, not only for the DAL pilots (example: typical of 85/86 hired pilots, I would have gone from +-650 (combined) to +-3100! -yeah, from 777 capt. to A320 capt!) but for NWA also...albeit in the form of a totally seperate, animosity-filled group of pilots for at least 10 years...animosity to the extent that it would make your disgruntlement with the present situation (or the red-green book battles) look like a Sunday school picnic by comparison. Perhaps your MEC could have accepted relative seniority as fair in principle, and negotiated the extreme DOH seniority inversions that say, specifically involve furlough demographics like yours, (and the DAL late 91/92 hires, who also were on furlough when NWA had new-hires in 95). Your MEC gambled big-time with your seniority, they had nothing to lose (or maybe they did, given your situation) Three unbiased experts...specialists in seniority list mergers -picked the way-lesser of two evils....get mad at them for being rational and doing their jobs, not the DAL pilots...the arbitrators are the ones, specifically, who put you in this position....

 

[FBN0223]

I know what you are saying about the early retirements. I misspoke. I understand they were leaving to get the lump sum. I understand most of your pilots are upset about the way that all panned out but the fact of the matter is that ANY pilot hired after 2007 has absolutely no right to be senior to a pilot who was hired prior to 9/11. Both companies went into BK on the same day!
...Agreed, but I wouldn't say "absolutely no right"...more like "shouldn't be". Afterall, it was your MEC who went for the GRAND SLAM HOME RUN in the form of across-the-board DOH, knowing that the worst they could possibly get was a relative position merge. Did it ever occur to you that the arbitrators had to choose between the lesser of two evils...and that DOH with 10 year fences would have been a complete, and utter disaster, not only for the DAL pilots (example: typical of 85/86 hired pilots, I would have gone from +-650 (combined) to +-3100! -yeah, from 777 capt. to A320 capt!) but for NWA also...albeit in the form of a totally seperate, animosity-filled group of pilots for at least 10 years...animosity to the extent that it would make your disgruntlement with the present situation (or the red-green book battles) look like a Sunday school picnic by comparison. Perhaps your MEC could have accepted relative seniority as fair in principle, and negotiated the extreme DOH seniority inversions that say, specifically involve furlough demographics like yours, (and the DAL late 91/92 hires, who also were on furlough when NWA had new-hires in 95). Your MEC gambled big-time with your seniority, they had nothing to lose (or maybe they did, given your situation) Three unbiased experts...specialists in seniority list mergers -picked the way-lesser of two evils....get mad at them for being rational and doing their jobs, not the DAL pilots...the arbitrators are the ones, specifically, who put you in this position....

Give it rest. We're going to be flying with you guys in less than year. Hopefully, the ranting on the SLI will have ebbed by then.

 

[JOPILOT]

As a fly on the wall, I heard an ex-Republic NWA captain whining in the weight room in TPA Hotel yesterday about how he got screwed, lost some of his future payout etc. etc. etc., I have yet to fly with such a bitching, whiny, complainer in my career. I hope to God this is not what we are in for in the near future. It is what it is, and hopefully our jobs are more secure because of the merge! I for one will not listen to these kind people for a four day trip, I will simply tell him to grow a pair and shut the fauk up! For the goodness of our new pilot group we should all try to move on and act like grown men and women. JP

 

[General Lee]

Deal! Enjoy Africa.

Our A330s may be doing more of that shortly. Regardless, this is all stupid. We are one group now. Quit the bitching. We all are going to go through with this whether we like it or not. Let's not make this another USAir deal. Let's all hold hands, get together in a circle, and sing "WE ARE THE WORLD..." Really, infighting has got to stop.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[andyd]

Heard second hand that Jim Graham at the Flt Ops meetings at the different bases has quashed the SEA 767 rumor and that the 330's will be staying....anyone hear this? Also that the 90's and 320's in SLC/MSP WILL be doing the swap right after SOC...

 

[General Lee]

Heard second hand that Jim Graham at the Flt Ops meetings at the different bases has quashed the SEA 767 rumor and that the 330's will be staying....anyone hear this? Also that the 90's and 320's in SLC/MSP WILL be doing the swap right after SOC...

I did not hear that. One of the reasons we put winglets on some 76ERs was to fly to Asia from SEA. Hmmmm. I have heard that we will replace the 757 intra-Asia flying with 76ERs (for cargo reasons also), so maybe that will be done through LAX (via HNL) or via PDX (nonstop NRT). I was told the first 757 flight from Ho Chi Min City to NRT was maxed out with cargo, and that an ER could be used soon.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[licorice]

Give it rest. We're going to be flying with you guys in less than year. Hopefully, the ranting on the SLI will have ebbed by then.

I agree, please pass that idea along to nwaredtail and redrum, who pulled out the switchblades on an otherwise staightforward reply by flyinpiker to a simple question....

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Heard second hand that Jim Graham at the Flt Ops meetings at the different bases has quashed the SEA 767 rumor and that the 330's will be staying....anyone hear this? Also that the 90's and 320's in SLC/MSP WILL be doing the swap right after SOC...

That pretty much jives with what I've been hearing. The SEA 7ER may take a little while- I think it is very likely in the long run, though. The 767ER is a perfect match for a lot of our intra asia stuff.

Granted...things change from week to week.
I'm not gonna get in the SLI food food in this thread. What's done is done...and besides, it's not like NWA knew exactly how to do a SLI. We're still having Red/Green tizzies 23 years later! Freaking rediculous.

 

[nwaredtail]

I agree, please pass that idea along to nwaredtail and redrum, who pulled out the switchblades on an otherwise staightforward reply by flyinpiker to a simple question....

Switchblade? The flight attendant forum is just a click away junior. SLI is what it is, but just remember, it's easier to say "let's move forward", when you gain at others expense.

 

[avrodriver]

Did Delta N ever have a NRT pilot base?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

They have put all of the major base moves on hold. With the new data they are seeing and a few other important factors, they are deciding to sharp shoot the movement than to just do it all at once.
There will be big jets moved, but it will take time.

 

[~~~^~~~]

No amount of whining I do, nor anything you can expound on this forum is going to convince 2000/2001 NWA hires that they didn't get worked over on the arbitration.

Huh? My friends say the huge pay increase and restoration of longevity are appreciated. They are looking forward to bidding larger equipment in what they consider to be better bases this spring. They are happy.

 

[nonstop]

Huh? My friends say the huge pay increase and restoration of longevity are appreciated. They are looking forward to bidding larger equipment in what they consider to be better bases this spring. They are happy.

Fail.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Acl,

Can you elaborate? Specifically on the new data and other important factors? Thanks

They have put all of the major base moves on hold. With the new data they are seeing and a few other important factors, they are deciding to sharp shoot the movement than to just do it all at once.
There will be big jets moved, but it will take time.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fail.

I'd debate you with quotes from your own pilots on this board, but as RedRum has pointed out NOTHING would help you appreciate the position you find yourself in.

Being forever frustrated about something you can't change will not do you any favors. Might as well look at the good side, as most of your pilots have.

 

[hockeypilot44]

I'd debate you with quotes from your own pilots on this board, but as RedRum has pointed out NOTHING would help you appreciate the position you find yourself in.

Being forever frustrated about something you can't change will not do you any favors. Might as well look at the good side, as most of your pilots have.

The good of the situation is Redrum had his longevity adjusted to include his furloughed time. Time to let the seniority issue go. It's done. Bitching does nothing other than pissing off your colleagues.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Acl,

Can you elaborate? Specifically on the new data and other important factors? Thanks

Yes Sir;

From what I was told last month, the notion of having a lot of categories move bases (330 to ATL, ER to SEA etc) are on hold. That is not to say that they are not going to happen, just that they are doing going to be done right off the bat.
Also, instead of surplussing and AEing in the same bid they may just but out lets say an AE for the 330, or 9 in ATL and see who bid is. After the bid closes, they will put out a surplus to bring down the category where the aircraft is moving from. It is a way to cut down on training costs etc. It was just an idea that was floated around, but it makes sense. This way people are not getting bumped out of seats bid after bid.

Now that DAL has had the chance to watch the NWA system first hand some of their initial thoughts and ideas have changed. Initially they wanted DTW to be a RJ base with larger jets doing the major population centers. Now they see DTW having the resiliency that you guys have touted. They do not see moving large mainline aircraft like they initially did. That does not mean they will not change the type of aircraft, it just means that mainline will have a bigger presence than they initially planned.

As for the 7ER in SEA. They are looking at it, but in reality it would be a lot cheaper for them to have the NRT flying flow out of an existing ER base like LAX and eventually SLC. It is possible, but we would need some way to get the crews to NRT that did not involve Deadheading. This type of stuff will be made clearer as we move past SOC.

The only thing that they really want to do is move the 320 to SLC and the 90 to MSP. That allows both aircraft to hit the coasts from their respective bases. It also will free up some 73N's and 757's out of SLC to do other things.

IMO you will see base and aircraft moves coming down the pike. They will be big, but you are not going to see a "Big Bang" like we all initially feared. Now of course you definition and mine are different. It also depends on where you sit on the list. A big bang to the top guys is getting knocked down a number or two, and to a junior guy it is getting bumped from base to base.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The good of the situation is Redrum had his longevity adjusted to include his furloughed time. Time to let the seniority issue go. It's done. Bitching does nothing other than pissing off your colleagues.

I think that one thing most DAL guys need to get are real quick, is we forget and move on, our new brothers and sisters never forget. It is going to be a different DAL. That is good. I look forward to C2012 with some different thinkers on board.

As we move past this economic storm, we will grow and prosper, that will be the best medicine to heal any wounds that were caused. Fact is that this award was arbitrated. I am sure I will lose a seat or to as the bids start coming, but it is what it is, and hey I have had a year to prepare for it. If it comes as a shock to me, I can only blame myself.

 

[B. Rubble]

Pay vs. Vac./Sick Longevity


"Being forever frustrated about something you can't change will not do you any favors. Might as well look at the good side, as most of your pilots have".
"The good of the situation is Redrum had his longevity adjusted to include his furloughed time. Time to let the seniority issue go. It's done. Bitching does nothing other than pissing off your colleagues".

While the longevity parity is appreciated, it is for pay only. Vacation and sick time accrual remains at the previous NWA longevity (2 years vs. 8 years for the longest term previously furloughed pilots).

 

[ACL65PILOT]

"Being forever frustrated about something you can't change will not do you any favors. Might as well look at the good side, as most of your pilots have".
"The good of the situation is Redrum had his longevity adjusted to include his furloughed time. Time to let the seniority issue go. It's done. Bitching does nothing other than pissing off your colleagues".

While the longevity parity is appreciated, it is for pay only. Vacation and sick time accrual remains at the previous NWA longevity (2 years vs. 8 years for the longest term previously furloughed pilots).

And that is something that should be dealt with. Let your reps know, and have them bring it to the LEC then the MEC level. Let the process work.

 

[B. Rubble]

Longevity

Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Rubble

"Being forever frustrated about something you can't change will not do you any favors. Might as well look at the good side, as most of your pilots have".
"The good of the situation is Redrum had his longevity adjusted to include his furloughed time. Time to let the seniority issue go. It's done. Bitching does nothing other than pissing off your colleagues".

While the longevity parity is appreciated, it is for pay only. Vacation and sick time accrual remains at the previous NWA longevity (2 years vs. 8 years for the longest term previously furloughed pilots).


"And that is something that should be dealt with. Let your reps know, and have them bring it to the LEC then the MEC level. Let the process work".
__________________
Regards;
ACL65pilot


All of that has been done since last year, including the grievance process. We have been attempting to find out it's status (the grievance) without success.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I see, well I will look where I can.

 

[doublepsych]

another question...

one more question,

as a pilot on voluntary bypass, do I have any travel privileges with Delta?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

one more question,

as a pilot on voluntary bypass, do I have any travel privileges with Delta?

Call your furlough coordinator.

 

[doublepsych]

Call your furlough coordinator.

no idea who that is...thanks for the help

 

[ACL65PILOT]

no idea who that is...thanks for the help

Call the MEC offices or the ALPA national number and they will be able to point you in the correct direction.

 

[Sinca3]

no idea who that is...thanks for the help

That tells me that you don't care much about DAL or coming backor you didn't until now....or you are interested in it now if it improves your pay or quality of life.

 

[DTW320]

Our A330s may be doing more of that shortly. Regardless, this is all stupid. We are one group now. Quit the bitching. We all are going to go through with this whether we like it or not. Let's not make this another USAir deal. Let's all hold hands, get together in a circle, and sing "WE ARE THE WORLD..." Really, infighting has got to stop.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Umm...I wasn't "bitching"....I was responding to the "bitching" of your DAL-S buddy Mr. Lumberg about NWA's "garbage" Asia flying. Quote the right thing/guy next time Kay?

 

[General Lee]

Umm...I wasn't "bitching"....I was responding to the "bitching" of your DAL-S buddy Mr. Lumberg about NWA's "garbage" Asia flying. Quote the right thing/guy next time Kay?

So, do you think this is all about YOU??? I was saying the GROUP needs to stop bitching, KAY??? Looks like you need to re-read it yourself and try to understand the quote. "We are one group now. Quit the bitching." It was never intended to be a response to one person, meaning YOU. Re-read it again and look at the overall tone. And, you said enjoy Africa, which may be seen by more DL-N guys sooner than later. Apology accepted.

Bye Bye---General Lee