Delta Q

[doublepsych]

question: I am a 6/2001 NWA hire date, on vol furlough bypass. If I were on property today, what domiciles/equip/sched might I expect? Particularly west coast stuff...

Also, when might there be any future classes?

Trying to evaluate there v. my current corporate spot. Thanks for any info...I'm pretty well out of the loop.

 

[Noserider76]

Off the top of my head you could:

Carry the canes for the SEA guys

Hold LAX 767ER FO
Be a pretty senior LAX 73N FO

Hold SLC 767 Domestic FO
Hold SLC 73N FO
Be a pretty senior SLC M88/90 FO

SLC M88/90 category rumored to be heading to MSP while SLC gets A320. Seniority range will probably be similar.

I don't see any hiring on the horizon (next 2 years or so). Company is overmanned for the winter but supposedly correctly manned for next summer if the economy stays the same. As you know though, anything can happen. Best of luck.

 

[FlyinPiker]

Actually I'm showing different for a NWA 6/2001 hire although I maybe mistaken. For the above positions as of this last displacement here's what I got:

LAX 73N FO- Very bottom of the list (6/01 hires are paired with someone that just got displaced on the DAL side)

LAX 7ER FO - Can't Hold

SLC 88/90 FO - Bottom Line Holder

SLC 73N FO - Bottom of the List

SLC 767 FO - Can't Hold

 

[Noserider76]

Actually I'm showing different for a NWA 6/2001 hire although I maybe mistaken.

Thanks for the correction. I know that last bid moved quite a few people down. Guess I shouldn't reply off the top of my head.

 

[Sinca3]

I would think that ALPA should have all the info you need. You could probably get a copy of the combined DAL list and see exactely where you would be.
As for being out of the loop that probably means your corporate gig is good enough where you haven't cared much about coming back to NWA....DAL.

 

[FlyinPiker]

Thanks for the correction. I know that last bid moved quite a few people down. Guess I shouldn't reply off the top of my head.

Heck I might be wrong I just know there are a couple of years where things are a little more out of whack than others.

I think NWA 01' hires are all about DAL 07'/early 08' hire seniority .

Kinda like DAL 91' hires are all about equal with NWA 95' seniority.

Hope I didn't just open the door to another thread whining about the SLI. For the most part I've been very impressed with how guys have just kind of shrugged it off and said "It is what it is!".

I look forward to working with our North brothers. Now most of the bull is behind us everyone seems to be posting like we've been pals all along. At least on the APC threads. It's awesome to see.

 

[nwaredtail]

Kinda like DAL 91' hires are all about equal with NWA 95' seniority.[/U]

Hope I didn't just open the door to another thread whining about the SLI. For the most part I've been very impressed with how guys have just kind of shrugged it off and said "It is what it is!".

So you are resorting to the 100 or so NWA guys that didn't lose 750-1000 numbers with the SLI, thanks for that. Reminds me how my teenagers base their arguments. How did you make out? I can tell you if you give me what month and year you were hired. I was Nov, 1996 and am next to a Jan. 1998 with 983 junior DAL Pilots between us(by DOH ahead of me) I'll produce a nice spreadsheet that shows where you would have been at standalone DAL and one at the combined company. Bunch of beer says we both know which one puts you at a higher seniority over your career.

 

[FlyinPiker]

So you are resorting to the 100 or so NWA guys that didn't lose 750-1000 numbers with the SLI, thanks for that. Reminds me how my teenagers base their arguments. How did you make out? I can tell you if you give me what month and year you were hired. I was Nov, 1996 and am next to a Jan. 1998 with 983 junior DAL Pilots between us(by DOH ahead of me) I'll produce a nice spreadsheet that shows where you would have been at standalone DAL and one at the combined company. Bunch of beer says we both know which one puts you at a higher seniority over your career.

I am saying that a DAL 01' hire is different than a NWA 01' hire and the first two response posts display this.

I'm not saying anyone's situation is comparable to anothers. A lot of guys including yourself took it in the shorts. All I can do is offer up my most humblest apology since it obviously is myself and anyone else that came out ahead's fault. We can do this all day long and I don't know where it gets anyone. What are we trying to win? The who got sc.rewed the most award? Bragging rights whether they are positive or negative are going to get these two pilot groups no where fast.

I've had a few pitfalls in my career and I am in no way saying they are equal to yours. But I'm over them and can look back on the last 10 years and be happy where I am.

I am very sorry to hear you are one of the guys that had to take a punch.

I know it's easy for me to say, but keeping that spreadsheet handy seems like it's going to do nothing but be a daily reminder of why you should hold contempt for your South brothers. I hope that is not the case.

 

[michael707767]

I'll produce a nice spreadsheet that shows where you would have been at standalone DAL and one at the combined company. Bunch of beer says we both know which one puts you at a higher seniority over your career.

I lost about 2% in the merger. It gets better for the next 10 or so years until at my peak, I am about 4% better than I would have been in a stand alone Delta. Then it starts to decline again until my last year, when I am with 1% of where I would have been stand alone. IMHO, the extra 4% I have for a few years will not even come close to making up for the increase in seniority that ATL will experiance when NWA pilots start to bid in. I think it will be worse for the DAL pilots in SLC and LAX.

I submit to you that any NWA pilot who stays at a former NWA base will not have any different career progression than they would have had absent the merger. The number of NWA pilots bidding DAL bases will far outweight the number of DAL pilots bidding to NWA bases.

So I will bet you a bunch of beer that we both know this merger and this extra seniority as you call it, will not mean I end up in a higher seat than I would have over my career.

 

[nwaredtail]

The number of NWA pilots bidding DAL bases will far outweight the number of DAL pilots bidding to NWA bases.

So I will bet you a bunch of beer that we both know this merger and this extra seniority as you call it, will not mean I end up in a higher seat than I would have over my career.

[/QUOTE]

I agree with the bases, if there is a re-shuffle NYC and LAX will be largely NWA folks, with maybe a bit of ATL with the GA, FL folks. Although the only way that will happen is with MD's and being junior in a category. Wait and see.

BTW, I lost 1 % at the combined list that peaks @ 9% in 10 years and ends at 6% at 65 retirement.

 

[nwaredtail]

.

I know it's easy for me to say, but keeping that spreadsheet handy seems like it's going to do nothing but be a daily reminder of why you should hold contempt for your South brothers. I hope that is not the case.

Don't worry, it's on the DALPA website. Not too handy

 

[FlyinPiker]

......

 

[FlyinPiker]

Don't worry, it's on the DALPA website. Not too handy

I know. As it should be. It's like any other "results" page I've ever pulled up. Even when there were times in my career where I was downgraded, I look at it and move on.

Take Care.

 

[doublepsych]

Actually I'm showing different for a NWA 6/2001 hire although I maybe mistaken. For the above positions as of this last displacement here's what I got:

LAX 73N FO- Very bottom of the list (6/01 hires are paired with someone that just got displaced on the DAL side)

LAX 7ER FO - Can't Hold

SLC 88/90 FO - Bottom Line Holder

SLC 73N FO - Bottom of the List

SLC 767 FO - Can't Hold

thanks for the info...

 

[RedRum]

I am saying that a DAL 01' hire is different than a NWA 01' hire and the first two response posts display this.

I'm not saying anyone's situation is comparable to anothers. A lot of guys including yourself took it in the shorts. All I can do is offer up my most humblest apology since it obviously is myself and anyone else that came out ahead's fault. We can do this all day long and I don't know where it gets anyone. What are we trying to win? The who got sc.rewed the most award? Bragging rights whether they are positive or negative are going to get these two pilot groups no where fast.

I've had a few pitfalls in my career and I am in no way saying they are equal to yours. But I'm over them and can look back on the last 10 years and be happy where I am.

I am very sorry to hear you are one of the guys that had to take a punch.

I know it's easy for me to say, but keeping that spreadsheet handy seems like it's going to do nothing but be a daily reminder of why you should hold contempt for your South brothers. I hope that is not the case.

Believe me, if you were on the other end of this SLI you would not have the same tone. I GUARANTEE you that! It is so easy for you and the rest to sound like you want us all to get along, but my Delta South brothers kicked me in the balls TWICE. Once when they pulled the Letter 19 BS and then they actually made arguments in fornt of an arbitrator that because of our raises, we shouldn't get anything near DOH. Classy! Really classy. The funny part about the raise part was that it had NOTHING to do with Delta pilots and everything to do with Delta management.

This industry is full of self-serving, what-can-I-do-for-me types who will do anything to step on another guy. Let's not sugarcoat it. An overwhelming majority of NWA guys took it in the shorts, and for me to hear from a DAL-S guy that I should let it go is wise, but unrealistic. I understand the SLI is what it is, but don't think for a MINUTE that I think it is right.

As a refresher, the bottom 2500 guys at Delta would not even be on the property if it wasn't for those early retirements that were offered. That is the rub for a lot of the NWA pilots being upset about the award. Nothing we can do about it now. We aren't going to pull a USAPA. This is going to be a good thing going forward, but it sure is going to be a tough pill to swallow watching those 1000+ pilots that weren't at a major when I was on FURLOUGH for 5 stinking years!

 

[Sedona16]

Believe me, if you were on the other end of this SLI you would not have the same tone. I GUARANTEE you that! It is so easy for you and the rest to sound like you want us all to get along, but my Delta South brothers kicked me in the balls TWICE. Once when they pulled the Letter 19 BS and then they actually made arguments in fornt of an arbitrator that because of our raises, we shouldn't get anything near DOH. Classy! Really classy. The funny part about the raise part was that it had NOTHING to do with Delta pilots and everything to do with Delta management.

This industry is full of self-serving, what-can-I-do-for-me types who will do anything to step on another guy. Let's not sugarcoat it. An overwhelming majority of NWA guys took it in the shorts, and for me to hear from a DAL-S guy that I should let it go is wise, but unrealistic. I understand the SLI is what it is, but don't think for a MINUTE that I think it is right.

As a refresher, the bottom 2500 guys at Delta would not even be on the property if it wasn't for those early retirements that were offered. That is the rub for a lot of the NWA pilots being upset about the award. Nothing we can do about it now. We aren't going to pull a USAPA. This is going to be a good thing going forward, but it sure is going to be a tough pill to swallow watching those 1000+ pilots that weren't at a major when I was on FURLOUGH for 5 stinking years!

Its not all one way brother. There are a lot of original Delta guys who live west, who currently hold western bases, who hired on at Delta because of said western bases who, with their families are about ready to get kicked east for what could be a long period of time. Those folks, including myself, would prefer to never have merged seeing how this all played out.

 

[Kroll]

[/COLOR]

Believe me, if you were on the other end of this SLI you would not have the same tone.

Word!


Once when they pulled the Letter 19 BS


You got that right ........nice pu-ssy move Moak pulled



watching those 1000+ pilots that weren't at a major when I was on FURLOUGH for 5 stinking years!

Yep most of these guys/ gals were Flight instructors when we were furloughed! There is nothing fair about the guys who were furloughed at NWA that were put behind 2007 hires at Delta, nothing! I don't blame Delta guys/gals............ALPA is to blame. It should have never gone to arbitration.

 

[michael707767]

As a refresher, the bottom 2500 guys at Delta would not even be on the property if it wasn't for those early retirements that were offered. That is the rub for a lot of the NWA pilots being upset about the award. Nothing we can do about it now. We aren't going to pull a USAPA. This is going to be a good thing going forward, but it sure is going to be a tough pill to swallow watching those 1000+ pilots that weren't at a major when I was on FURLOUGH for 5 stinking years!

First of all, of the 2500 or so guys who retired early, about 90% of them would have been gone by the time the merger happened anyway. Second, there were never any early retirements offered. Pilots were taking advantage of the lump sum option of our retirement, and option negotiated by the Delta pilots years earlier.

 

[RedRum]

First of all, of the 2500 or so guys who retired early, about 90% of them would have been gone by the time the merger happened anyway. Second, there were never any early retirements offered. Pilots were taking advantage of the lump sum option of our retirement, and option negotiated by the Delta pilots years earlier.

I know what you are saying about the early retirements. I misspoke. I understand they were leaving to get the lump sum. I understand most of your pilots are upset about the way that all panned out but the fact of the matter is that ANY pilot hired after 2007 has absolutely no right to be senior to a pilot who was hired prior to 9/11. Both companies went into BK on the same day!

No amount of whining I do, nor anything you can expound on this forum is going to convince 2000/2001 NWA hires that they didn't get worked over on the arbitration.

Maybe one of the things that bothers us is that we hear this just get over it stance from someone who should just be quiet and try to understand where some of the dissappointment comes from. Like I was saying before, it would be very easy to have your position had I gotten the gift you got when the SLI came out.

We have all worked hard to ge where we are but some have endured more. As far as NWA pushing Delta guys out of westen bases...isn't that the least that could happen considering how much seniority we lost? You can't have everything.

 

[another cfii]

Group hug, anyone? Super?