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So... What are the BIG benefits to F9 with Republic?

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Did the Frontier pilots agree to the unlimited scope that Bedford was looking for? If so, wouldn't that point to growing the E-190 fleet more than the Airbus fleet?

He's gonna grow both fleets ala B6. And what difference does it make when we have one pilot list, you can bid what you want. You can fly the 190 or the stay on the bus.

Putting the bus in MKE makes sense right now because our loads have been 100% with the 94 seaters. I cant see it becoming a base, but I can see it doing MKE-SEA.
 
He estimates that Frontier's pilots cost the carrier $170 an hour in wages and benefits, compared with $99 an hour for Republic's regional jet pilots; Southwest's pilots cost $290 an hour, he estimates.

The problem with that assessment is that it leaves out the impending increase in wages for the Republic pilots. If Republic pilots were to fly the Airbus, a new payscale would have to be negotiated. That would close the gap between his ESTIMATED (for effect) $99/hr for RAH pilots and $170/hr for F9 pilots. If the Airbus was offered to RAH pilots, it would go pretty senior. The senior captains are already making close to $99/hr by themselves on the 175/190. Add in the raise in pay for the 'Bus and the FO pay (even at $30/hr for 2yr RAH FO), and the margin between F9 pay and RAH pay becomes very minimal.

But, to be more realistic, F9 pilots are still operating under their contract. Bedford CAN'T replace them with RAH pilots anytime in the near future. Integration will have to occur first. F9 pilots are not going to let integration happen quickly if they don't get protections that keep them on the Airbus with their current pay. The soonest Bedford could get crew pay savings on the Airbus is either at the end of an arbitrated and appealed integration (look how quickly that can go...US Airways), or upon the signing of a new CBA at RAH, which will have increased crew costs. Both are not going to happen in 2009, and 2010 is even pushing it.

That $99 vs. $170 number will be much closer to $150 vs $170 after new pay is negotiated for RAH pilots on larger equipment. And that is my conservative estimate. That assumes captains making in the 105 range (5yr), and FO's making 45/hr (2yr Airbus). All of you would ridicule RAH for those rates, yet look how those rediculously low rates narrow the gap between the alleged crew costs.

Crew pay will not make a difference. Even if Bedford could call all the shots and ignore everyone's CBA, and he puts RAH pilots on the Airbus and F9 pilots on the 170, any cost savings would be negated by the cost of re-training 1200 pilots (600 F9, 600 RAH), paying for displacement moving costs, and paying for extra staff to buffer the transition time. Not to mention, the costs incurred operationally by having a whole fleet being operated by pilots who are unfamiliar with the equipment would be pretty high.

Southwest's low fares have not prevented Frontier from profiting in Denver. Why would all of that suddenly change? Frontier customers are loyal to Frontier, and will continue to stay loyal as long as they get the service they are accustomed to. Since F9 pilots, gate staff, flight attendants, mechanics, and ramp staff will continue to work F9 flights, I see no reason for the customer experience to change.
 
So when are you boys and girls gonna man/women up and ask for pay that is respectful of your training, experience, and professionalism?


Just a hunch...but it ain't gonna be while they are in bankruptcy.

You wanna give a pilot group some s.hit why don't you go badger the AirTran guys. Their company's been in pretty dam.n good shape for the last decade and still no new pilot contract, not that they haven't been trying.

Give these guys a break already
 
Pilot block hour crew costs are 58% lower at Republic ($100 per capita) versus Frontier ($170) and this suggests that Republic will want to reap the benefits of operating its own lower-cost crews. "
-http://seekingalpha.com/article/156382-southwest-airlines-missed-opportunity-frontier-goes-to-republic

I discount this entire article because it's based on incorrect assumptions. Our Airbus operation is lower CASM than the 190s (6 versus 7) Further, and most obbviously, F9s cokcpit costs are NOT 170/hr. And average Frontier flight deck's hourly rates total more than 200/hr, and that's before the B-fund, 401k match, and insurance costs. Absolute nonsense.
 
I discount this entire article because it's based on incorrect assumptions. Our Airbus operation is lower CASM than the 190s (6 versus 7) Further, and most obbviously, F9s cokcpit costs are NOT 170/hr. And average Frontier flight deck's hourly rates total more than 200/hr, and that's before the B-fund, 401k match, and insurance costs. Absolute nonsense.

Where did you get your cockpit cost info? I'm going on what the analysts are saying.
 
Analysts are mostly idiots in this business. And the Vaughn Cordle quoted in the first article is an fing scab, to boot.

airlinepilotcentral.com is a good place to start. The FAPA CBA is also helpful, along with the 8/1/09 Frontier seniority list. Bear in mind that no Frontier FO is on less than 3rd year pay. Lowest cost scenario, most junior FO paired with most junior CA = $211/hr, book rate. A seniority class from the dead middle of the list = $228/hr.
 
Analysts are mostly idiots in this business. And the Vaughn Cordle quoted in the first article is an fing scab, to boot.

airlinepilotcentral.com is a good place to start. The FAPA CBA is also helpful, along with the 8/1/09 Frontier seniority list. Bear in mind that no Frontier FO is on less than 3rd year pay. Lowest cost scenario, most junior FO paired with most junior CA = $211/hr, book rate. A seniority class from the dead middle of the list = $228/hr.

I think that just adds more fuel to the argument that they will have to take an even bigger pay cut or watch their flying get replaced by gel haired Ipod listeners for 99bucks an hour cockpit costs.
 
The problem with that assessment is that it leaves out the impending increase in wages for the Republic pilots. That $99 vs. $170 number will be much closer to $150 vs $170 after new pay is negotiated for RAH pilots on larger equipment. And that is my conservative estimate. .

If you think you're gonna get $150/hr out of Bedford, in any equipment, you're out of your mind. I know Bedford better than that.
 

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