So... What are the BIG benefits to F9 with Republic?

[Cardinal]

Pilot block hour crew costs are 58% lower at Republic ($100 per capita) versus Frontier ($170) and this suggests that Republic will want to reap the benefits of operating its own lower-cost crews. "
-http://seekingalpha.com/article/156382-southwest-airlines-missed-opportunity-frontier-goes-to-republic

I discount this entire article because it's based on incorrect assumptions. Our Airbus operation is lower CASM than the 190s (6 versus 7) Further, and most obbviously, F9s cokcpit costs are NOT 170/hr. And average Frontier flight deck's hourly rates total more than 200/hr, and that's before the B-fund, 401k match, and insurance costs. Absolute nonsense.

 

[FSIGRAD]

There aren't any Republic FOs making maximum FO scale ($37/hr) None of them have been there that long

There are quite a few myself included.

 

[kf4amu]

I discount this entire article because it's based on incorrect assumptions. Our Airbus operation is lower CASM than the 190s (6 versus 7) Further, and most obbviously, F9s cokcpit costs are NOT 170/hr. And average Frontier flight deck's hourly rates total more than 200/hr, and that's before the B-fund, 401k match, and insurance costs. Absolute nonsense.

Where did you get your cockpit cost info? I'm going on what the analysts are saying.

 

[Cardinal]

Analysts are mostly idiots in this business. And the Vaughn Cordle quoted in the first article is an fing scab, to boot.

airlinepilotcentral.com is a good place to start. The FAPA CBA is also helpful, along with the 8/1/09 Frontier seniority list. Bear in mind that no Frontier FO is on less than 3rd year pay. Lowest cost scenario, most junior FO paired with most junior CA = $211/hr, book rate. A seniority class from the dead middle of the list = $228/hr.

 

[dougdrvr]

There are quite a few myself included.

Perhaps, but since 55% of the RAH seniority list has been hired since 8/30/2005 there can't be that many unless they chose not to upgrade or couldn't.

 

[kf4amu]

Analysts are mostly idiots in this business. And the Vaughn Cordle quoted in the first article is an fing scab, to boot.

airlinepilotcentral.com is a good place to start. The FAPA CBA is also helpful, along with the 8/1/09 Frontier seniority list. Bear in mind that no Frontier FO is on less than 3rd year pay. Lowest cost scenario, most junior FO paired with most junior CA = $211/hr, book rate. A seniority class from the dead middle of the list = $228/hr.

I think that just adds more fuel to the argument that they will have to take an even bigger pay cut or watch their flying get replaced by gel haired Ipod listeners for 99bucks an hour cockpit costs.

 

[airlinepilot]

Would Republic Airlines really pull Frontier out of Denver?

Just ran accross this article:

http://www.examiner.com/x-15815-Denver-AirlinesAirport-Examiner~y2009m8d27-Would-Republic-Airlines-really-pull-Frontier-out-of-Denver

Let the guessing begin?

 

[Skyboy722]

The problem with that assessment is that it leaves out the impending increase in wages for the Republic pilots. That $99 vs. $170 number will be much closer to $150 vs $170 after new pay is negotiated for RAH pilots on larger equipment. And that is my conservative estimate. .

If you think you're gonna get $150/hr out of Bedford, in any equipment, you're out of your mind. I know Bedford better than that.

 

[scoreboardII]

That should be fair, let F9 fly without taxation while slamming UAL and SWA, yep, thats fair.

 

[Cardinal]

Mayor Hickenlooper has been giving SWA the reach-around since your arrival. Spare me.

 

[Cometman]

Mayor Hickenlooper has been giving SWA the reach-around since your arrival. Spare me.

If F9 comes out of Chapter 11 it won't be long before they will be in it again or they will be sold off. If they do survive the F9 pilots will be paid what the regional pilots get. They will regret the decision to not accept what SWAPA offered.

 

[Cardinal]

If F9 comes out of Chapter 11 it won't be long before they will be in it again or they will be sold off. If they do survive the F9 pilots will be paid what the regional pilots get. They will regret the decision to not accept what SWAPA offered.

Dodgeball:
"We're better than you, and we know it!"

 

[vixin]

Hence the reason you were Bankrupt.

 

[dude100]

And Lynx L4?

Some benefits (serious, not trying to joke) are...

- F9 pilots get to keep their jobs
- F9 pilots get to keep their seats
- F9 pilots get to stay on their equipment
- F9 pilots get to keep their base
- F9 pilots get to keep their pay
- F9 pilots enter into integration talks with an advantage relative to their standing against the SWAPA pilots.
- F9 pilots will have the ability to help shape the RAH pilot group, and help shape the RAH contract to protect their current QOL.
- F9 pilots are not facing a guaranteed furlough
- F9 pilots get a chance to continue flying the brand they built, which means a lot to a lot of people
- F9 pilots are likely to end up with higher overall seniority compared with an integration at SWA
- F9 staff (mechanics, office staff, flight attendants) are more likely to keep their jobs, since many of the operations positions did not exist at RAH already.
- F9 employees are able to maintain a lot of continuity in their lives based on the stated intentions of RAH management.

Yes, some or all of the above can change over time, but RAH offered more hope for stability in terms of QOL, assuming RAH does not collapse under its ambition. F9 pilots faced the slow wind down of their fleet, which was going to lead to definite furloughs, highly likely base changes, and a future of being at the bottom of a seniority list at a time when growth is very limited and jobs are scarce. SWA may have offered more long term benefit, but MY OPINION is that the likely short term losses were just too much for the majority of F9 pilots to accept. But, I am not on their side of the fence, so my perspective may be off.

What will happen to the pilots at L4 that helped keep this thing afloat?

 

[crashpad]

What will happen to the pilots at L4 that helped keep this thing afloat?

They had a meeting with BB. Since I wasn't there, I'll let them share what they know if they want to. They are equally optimistic judging from the conversations I 've had with them.

 

[airlinepilot]

I think we should have a "top 10 benefits" of having RUH buy F9