Republic Teamsters, please be honest

[CitationLover]

If I recall, MidEx pay rates cover aircraft up to A320 sized. A YX'er will chime in, but I believe those airframes are covered. Right?

We had one pay rate for all of our aircraft, but you are correct it covered the A319 series. From our contract:

The following rates of pay will apply to “small” narrow body aircraft (e.g., DC-9 and Derivatives, including the B-717; all B-737; B-727; and the Airbus 318, 319 and 320).

 

[Airline Driver]

Come together? You STOLE my job and now you have the balls to say this?

I stole your job.................I love these statements. It really dumbfounds me as to how narrow minded pilots are. I didn't steel anything. last time I checked, I had nothing to do with the business decisions between your management and ours. Did your CEO come to you and ask your permission to make this business deal? mmmmmm NO, Nor did mine. This is not the fault of Pilots, it is the fault of management. Stop blaming RAH pilots for your companies lack of direction and financial trouble. We were not the reason your company went bankrupt. My Paycheck is signed by Republic not Midwest, So how did I take Your Job when I am flying My metal? "If" I walked onto a 717 to fly your metal with a Midwest paycheck, then thats different.

 

[dougdrvr]

Did your CEO come to you and ask your permission to make this business deal? mmmmmm NO, Nor did mine. This is not the fault of Pilots, it is the fault of management. Stop blaming RAH pilots for your companies lack of direction and financial trouble. We were not the reason your company went bankrupt.

Actually, in a manner of speaking, he did. All we had to do was trash our work rules and cut our pay in half and we would be flying the E-jets. And Midwest never filed for bankruptcy which is very strange, we would probably be better off it they had.

 

[BUDDHA145]

First let me apologize if I offend any one but this is my ignorance not yours or any ones!!! why you guys turn down Airtran??? I actually never heard and awnser about it. or what happend there???

 

[Donsa320]

First let me apologize if I offend any one but this is my ignorance not yours or any ones!!! why you guys turn down Airtran??? I actually never heard and awnser about it. or what happend there???

$17.00 cash a share from TPG/NWA versus a couple of bucks a share cash and some Airtran stock from AAI. The pilots had no say in the matter, the Board of Directors would have been sued off the face of the Earth if they had turned TPG down.

 

[CitationLover]

I stole your job.................I love these statements. It really dumbfounds me as to how narrow minded pilots are. I didn't steel anything. last time I checked, I had nothing to do with the business decisions between your management and ours. Did your CEO come to you and ask your permission to make this business deal? mmmmmm NO, Nor did mine. This is not the fault of Pilots, it is the fault of management. Stop blaming RAH pilots for your companies lack of direction and financial trouble. We were not the reason your company went bankrupt. My Paycheck is signed by Republic not Midwest, So how did I take Your Job when I am flying My metal? "If" I walked onto a 717 to fly your metal with a Midwest paycheck, then thats different.

It's ok, you can fly for peanuts and keep nailing your own coffin in career earnings potential. When the Indians and Chinese come knocking for 60% less than what you earn don't come crying to me.

And Himmler used the same excuse you used. Now the IBT is stalling and showing their true colors. It's ok because I am "blessed" by my new CEO.

 

[AV1ATRX]

Just curious, CitationLover: when you get recalled to a 190, are you going to take it?

 

[likeitis]

Just curious, CitationLover: when you get recalled to a 190, are you going to take it?

Who could afford it? For What he is making right now it would be retarded. Taking recall right now from a job anywhere above lumber specialists at Home Depot would be foolish. At least at Home Depot you don't have to read a weekly sermon from some fool.

 

[ultrarunner]

$17.00 cash a share from TPG/NWA versus a couple of bucks a share cash and some Airtran stock from AAI. The pilots had no say in the matter, the Board of Directors would have been sued off the face of the Earth if they had turned TPG down.

Yeah, no doubt about it. 17 bucks a share for the shareholders was an incredible deal!

Airtran wasn't going to sweeten the pot, and their existing offer was going to expire, so MEH HAD to do something, or the stock would have tumbled to a buck or two at the time.

Smart move on managements part.

Now, had the MidEx pilot group been smart enough to demand it, or had the MidEx MEC been competent enough during initial contract negotitations to put in the language, there would have been SCOPE protection for the pilot group, and they wouldn't be facing extinction like they are now.

IMHO, THAT is why the MidEx pilot group lost their flying and their jobs along with it.

Jay S. is essentially an idiot, and you can blame him and ALPA national for not babysitting him during contract negotiations. There was NO reason whatsoever that the original TA should have ever been sent to the pilot group without SCOPE protection. C'mon folks, it 'aint like SCOPE was some new fangled issue at that time!

I know it's not popular opinion, but pilot groups LOVE to blame management for their woes, and that just does not apply in this case.

MEH did WAY more for their shareholders than the MidEx MEC EVER did for their pilot group.

And I lived it.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

 

[dougdrvr]

Yeah, no doubt about it. 17 bucks a share for the shareholders was an incredible deal!

Airtran wasn't going to sweeten the pot, and their existing offer was going to expire, so MEH HAD to do something, or the stock would have tumbled to a buck or two at the time.

Smart move on managements part.

Now, had the MidEx pilot group been smart enough to demand it, or had the MidEx MEC been competent enough during initial contract negotitations to put in the language, there would have been SCOPE protection for the pilot group, and they wouldn't be facing extinction like they are now.

IMHO, THAT is why the MidEx pilot group lost their flying and their jobs along with it.

Jay S. is essentially an idiot, and you can blame him and ALPA national for not babysitting him during contract negotiations. There was NO reason whatsoever that the original TA should have ever been sent to the pilot group without SCOPE protection. C'mon folks, it 'aint like SCOPE was some new fangled issue at that time!

I know it's not popular opinion, but pilot groups LOVE to blame management for their woes, and that just does not apply in this case.

MEH did WAY more for their shareholders than the MidEx MEC EVER did for their pilot group.

And I lived it.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

You can have the most air tight scope protection in the world but when it comes down to grieving an outragious violation to an arbitraitor and he gets sent on an all exspense paid vacation to the south of France by the other side, who do you think he's going to rule for?

 

[ultrarunner]

You can have the most air tight scope protection in the world but when it comes down to grieving an outragious violation to an arbitraitor and he gets sent on an all exspense paid vacation to the south of France by the other side, who do you think he's going to rule for?

Operative words are "air tight scope".

And you didn't even have that to begin with. That's my point.

 

[fam62c]

Yeah, no doubt about it. 17 bucks a share for the shareholders was an incredible deal!

Airtran wasn't going to sweeten the pot, and their existing offer was going to expire, so MEH HAD to do something, or the stock would have tumbled to a buck or two at the time.

Smart move on managements part.

Now, had the MidEx pilot group been smart enough to demand it, or had the MidEx MEC been competent enough during initial contract negotitations to put in the language, there would have been SCOPE protection for the pilot group, and they wouldn't be facing extinction like they are now.

IMHO, THAT is why the MidEx pilot group lost their flying and their jobs along with it.

Jay S. is essentially an idiot, and you can blame him and ALPA national for not babysitting him during contract negotiations. There was NO reason whatsoever that the original TA should have ever been sent to the pilot group without SCOPE protection. C'mon folks, it 'aint like SCOPE was some new fangled issue at that time!

I know it's not popular opinion, but pilot groups LOVE to blame management for their woes, and that just does not apply in this case.

MEH did WAY more for their shareholders than the MidEx MEC EVER did for their pilot group.

And I lived it.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Do you really think it's that simple? If you just have scope language that's tight enough an airline that can't make a profit just keeps all the planes and all the pilots? It's a business, if you can't make money you go away and Midwest struggled to make money after 9-11 even after things improved. In the weak economy after the TPG/NWA buyout Midex didn't stand a chance and no scope language on the planet was going to change that. The end was coming for Midwest one way or another and that die was cast years ago when the airline chose to stay small and cling to an outdated business model.

When are pilots going to figure out that scope doesn't mean anything unless the airline is profitable? The best scope in the world goes out the window if it gets modified in a bankruptcy hearing or if the company liquidates. It's a terrible situation for many pilots right now including the Midwest pilots and I feel bad for everybody who is without work (I'm one of them) but it is what it is and with or without Republic Midex was doomed by TH's lack of vision. This is just one of several potential end-game scenarios for Midwest, all of which would have resulted in all or most of the Midwest pilots out of work. Midwest as a business was unsustainable in anything other than a booming economy like the 1990's. If operating 37 717's and MD-80's out of a Milwaukee hub generated profits then the company would not have been broken up and then sold. It turned out like this because the company was a serial money loser. Small, boutique airlines just don't survive in this industry; their cost structure eventually kills them because they have no economy of scale. Midwest made it farther than any of the others in the past but in the end suffered the same fate.

 

[ultrarunner]

Fam62c, excellent post, and you are correct. The business model was simply not sustainable. TH and company did what they had to do when the end was near. The pilots would have been screwed in any event. I agree.

Ultra

 

[Airline Driver]

Actually, in a manner of speaking, he did. All we had to do was trash our work rules and cut our pay in half and we would be flying the E-jets. And Midwest never filed for bankruptcy which is very strange, we would probably be better off it they had.

I see your point sir, I should have used financial trouble vs Bankruptcy. My main point was simply to state that It is not the fault of a Pilot group for the financial trouble of another business. Pilots pointing fingers at other pilots is ludicrous.

 

[Airline Driver]

It's ok, you can fly for peanuts and keep nailing your own coffin in career earnings potential. When the Indians and Chinese come knocking for 60% less than what you earn don't come crying to me.

And Himmler used the same excuse you used. Now the IBT is stalling and showing their true colors. It's ok because I am "blessed" by my new CEO.

You are one bitter human being!!