Republic Teamsters, please be honest

[flying zephyr]

I have heard and read all the talk on here about "fair integration", "let's do this right", "pilots need to work together", etc. Well now it's time to put your money where your mouth is. Was this all a lie? The Republic pilots/IBT no show for talks and now say that they won't be able to meet until at the earliest at the end of September. They will say it's a scheduling thing, but we all know the real reason, wait 'til the airplanes are gone and get rid of the pilots.

All of you Republic pilots can look at my posts and see that I have never said anything bad about you and hoped that this would go as you all have said, but now I see the true story and want to know what you all think. I am saddend by this news and expected it, but hoped against hope that maybe you all were going to treat this fairly, now I see the true colors. PROVE ME WRONG. I am used to being lied to by management, but this is low.

 

[likeitis]

I have heard and read all the talk on here about "fair integration", "let's do this right", "pilots need to work together", etc. Well now it's time to put your money where your mouth is. Was this all a lie? The Republic pilots/IBT no show for talks and now say that they won't be able to meet until at the earliest at the end of September. They will say it's a scheduling thing, but we all know the real reason, wait 'til the airplanes are gone and get rid of the pilots.

All of you Republic pilots can look at my posts and see that I have never said anything bad about you and hoped that this would go as you all have said, but now I see the true story and want to know what you all think. I am saddend by this news and expected it, but hoped against hope that maybe you all were going to treat this fairly, now I see the true colors. PROVE ME WRONG. I am used to being lied to by management, but this is low.

Wow, no surprise there. They won't meet with the midwest pilots until all are gone. No loss, time to spend the IBT's, ALPA's and BB's money. Some lawyers as usual will be getting rich.

 

[MCOE175]

Trying to talk to any of our EXCO is like talking to a blind deaf retarded person. It is BS that they will not meet! I too hope for a fair intergration for everyone. If we don't band together now then who knows how the next contract will come to play.
With RP XY F9 and Mokulele all having to intergrate we will be almost 4000 pilots strong. We need to show RP and our unions who actually can run this show!
For any of my cohorts, I am sorry but our union and our EXCO needs to go! I am sick of hearing we need to give them a chance... They stole our money! You don't f**K with a persons money!

 

[godsgift2aviatn]

Their first meeting was on the 6th.

 

[Minimaniac]

The honest truth is our EXCO likes to operate beyond the peering eyes of the membership, and we end up finding out about missed meetings from you, not them. Our body of representatives is small and underfunded, and beyond broke thanks to the financial improprieties of our former Local president. They are trying to accomplish a lot with minimal resources. There is the YX, the F9, and the Mokulele integrations, plus legal proceedings that require the attendance of our EXCO and other committee members, and ongoing Section 6 meetings. On top of that, there has been a big push at the local to clear the backlog of grievences that our former legal counsel (and former local president, all the same loser) left us with.

From my experience, most senior list integrations are based upon a seniority list snapshot from the day the transaction was finalized. Any changes in active/furlough status from that date are ignored. SO, a week or two ago the YX deal was finalized. Whoever was an active YX pilot on that day SHOULD be entitled to active pilot considerations in the integration, even if they are furloughed at some point afterwards. I hope that holds up, and I hope an acceptable agreement is reached without unnecessary in-fighting, but we are pilots, afterall.

All I can say is judge based on the end result, NOT the intermediate demands. Both sides will shoot for unrealistic goals at first, and work their way towards a middle ground. That is negotiating. Good luck to all. I look forward to having experienced individuals of diverse backgrounds with fresh perspectives in our cockpits, whichever seat it may be. No one wants to lose seniority or pay, but I do think we have plenty of pilots at RAH who need the insights of F9 and YX pilots to help them become well rounded pilots, and frankly beat the newness out of them. The US Airways J4J pilots did that for me, and I am better for it.

 

[dougdrvr]

The honest truth is our EXCO likes to operate beyond the peering eyes of the membership, and we end up finding out about missed meetings from you, not them. Our body of representatives is small and underfunded, and beyond broke thanks to the financial improprieties of our former Local president. They are trying to accomplish a lot with minimal resources. There is the YX, the F9, and the Mokulele integrations, plus legal proceedings that require the attendance of our EXCO and other committee members, and ongoing Section 6 meetings. On top of that, there has been a big push at the local to clear the backlog of grievences that our former legal counsel (and former local president, all the same loser) left us with.

After the mess this excuse for a lawyer left you with, I can't beleive they are not going after his family. This is certainly not a ringing endorsement for any future organizing effort if your(our) local is not getting any support from above.

Dragging their feet on merger committee meetings is just poisoning the well and creating an atmosphere that will survive until all involved are either dead or retired. And lining the pockets of more lawyers, then maybe that is the intent all along.

The TA with the F9 pilots for a 2% raise looks like a nice tactic to drive the wedge even deeper

 

[pilotdad]

Also current negotiations for new contract are ongoing

Also, current negotiations for a new contract are ongoing. New payscales for the 190 and now the added Airbuses will have to be negotiated as well as integrating seniority lists. It won't be done overnight.

 

[CitationLover]

Also, current negotiations for a new contract are ongoing. New payscales for the 190 and now the added Airbuses will have to be negotiated as well as integrating seniority lists. It won't be done overnight.

Frontier has pay rates for Airbus.
Midwest has pay rates for 90+ seat aircraft (190's).

That wasn't too hard now wasn't it?

The republic plague is stalling so they can staple ALL midwest pilots, pure and simple, showing them to be the prostitutes they are.

 

[jravi8tor]

Frontier has pay rates for Airbus.
Midwest has pay rates for 90+ seat aircraft (190's).

That wasn't too hard now wasn't it?

The republic plague is stalling so they can staple ALL midwest pilots, pure and simple, showing them to be the prostitutes they are.

If you consider the RAH group a bunch of prostitutes, then we need to learn from JAY and SILENT BOB! They know how to make a prostitute quit!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl3IjeG90mQ

 

[jetupset]

Will you help us or should we just fade away silently?

YX pilots blaming management will have no effect on our situation. Management is making a concerted effort to eradicate every one of us.

Republic Pilots: I've read many posts that state "we're just doing our job," "it's not our fault, we feel bad for the YX guys but there is nothing we can do about it." A comparison that I would draw would be the many war atrocities which have occurred throughout history where the offending parties who committed horrible crimes stated, "it's not our fault, we were following orders." Granted, what's being done to the YX pilots is not nearly as egregious as my example, however, to us this is a life altering experience. I'm also reading posts regarding Republic contract negotiations which state "we have to get our pay up to industry standards for the good of the profession". You came into MKE, under cut our rates until all the YX Pilots are gone AND NOW YOU WANT A PAY RAISE? WHAT ABOUT US! I don't mean to be inflammatory but actions speak louder than words.

F9 Pilots: You were recently on the bubble concerned about your future. You now have a new lease on life. F9 will be flying YX flights under some bogus code share agreement, further ensuring the end of our careers.

We need a grass roots effort from both Republic and Frontier line pilots. WILL YOU HELP?

 

[Airline Driver]

Frontier has pay rates for Airbus.
Midwest has pay rates for 90+ seat aircraft (190's).

That wasn't too hard now wasn't it?

The republic plague is stalling so they can staple ALL midwest pilots, pure and simple, showing them to be the prostitutes they are.

RAH is not using the word Staple. Nor will any Pilot on the the Active list be stapled. I was an "Old Shuttle America" Pilot who was integrated in to the CHQ list back in 05. Needless to say that was not a pretty integration. The S5 pilots lost big time. I understand your hostility and wish the best for all of our groups in this endeavor.

Instead of pointing fingers at fellow pilots, (WHICH MANAGEMENT LOVES) we need to come together and negotiate a contract that will benefit us All so we can all be reasonably happy. I look forward to the diverse experience that Midwest and Frontier brings to the table. I hope we can all get through this with as little blood shed as possible.

 

[tyuwerty]

RAH is not using the word Staple. Nor will any Pilot on the the Active list be stapled. I was an "Old Shuttle America" Pilot who was integrated in to the CHQ list back in 05. Needless to say that was not a pretty integration. The S5 pilots lost big time. I understand your hostility and wish the best for all of our groups in this endeavor.

I hope for F9 you are right AD.

Except for Sowell, all of the same players from the Original Shuttle merger are still active in the union at RJET.

RJET still employs the same "ME" first generation of FO's that were p1ssed because a handful of "Old Shuttle" ended up before them on the list. Delaying their god given right to upgrade by a few months.

The "Old Shuttle" folks were f***ed by their own union, so F9 doesn't have to worry on that front and the law is now on their side.

 

[Airline Driver]

I hope for F9 you are right AD.

Except for Sowell, all of the same players from the Original Shuttle merger are still active in the union at RJET.

RJET still employs the same "ME" first generation of FO's that were p1ssed because a handful of "Old Shuttle" ended up before them on the list. Delaying their god given right to upgrade by a few months.

The "Old Shuttle" folks were f***ed by their own union, so F9 doesn't have to worry on that front and the law is now on their side.

No one on our EXCO is using the word Staple. We have also had numerous letters sent out by the union not to use the word Staple in public. I agree hold heartedly. I truly do hope that all 5 airlines, RAH, F9 Midwest,Lynx,and Moleke or however you spell them, can work together and stump management. The only way to get a decent contract is if we unite as one and that will not be easy.

 

[ultrarunner]

Frontier has pay rates for Airbus.
Midwest has pay rates for 90+ seat aircraft (190's).

If I recall, MidEx pay rates cover aircraft up to A320 sized. A YX'er will chime in, but I believe those airframes are covered. Right?

 

[CitationLover]

RAH is not using the word Staple. Nor will any Pilot on the the Active list be stapled. I was an "Old Shuttle America" Pilot who was integrated in to the CHQ list back in 05. Needless to say that was not a pretty integration. The S5 pilots lost big time. I understand your hostility and wish the best for all of our groups in this endeavor.

Instead of pointing fingers at fellow pilots, (WHICH MANAGEMENT LOVES) we need to come together and negotiate a contract that will benefit us All so we can all be reasonably happy. I look forward to the diverse experience that Midwest and Frontier brings to the table. I hope we can all get through this with as little blood shed as possible.

Come together? You STOLE my job and now you have the balls to say this?

 

[CitationLover]

If I recall, MidEx pay rates cover aircraft up to A320 sized. A YX'er will chime in, but I believe those airframes are covered. Right?

We had one pay rate for all of our aircraft, but you are correct it covered the A319 series. From our contract:

The following rates of pay will apply to “small” narrow body aircraft (e.g., DC-9 and Derivatives, including the B-717; all B-737; B-727; and the Airbus 318, 319 and 320).

 

[Airline Driver]

Come together? You STOLE my job and now you have the balls to say this?

I stole your job.................I love these statements. It really dumbfounds me as to how narrow minded pilots are. I didn't steel anything. last time I checked, I had nothing to do with the business decisions between your management and ours. Did your CEO come to you and ask your permission to make this business deal? mmmmmm NO, Nor did mine. This is not the fault of Pilots, it is the fault of management. Stop blaming RAH pilots for your companies lack of direction and financial trouble. We were not the reason your company went bankrupt. My Paycheck is signed by Republic not Midwest, So how did I take Your Job when I am flying My metal? "If" I walked onto a 717 to fly your metal with a Midwest paycheck, then thats different.

 

[dougdrvr]

Did your CEO come to you and ask your permission to make this business deal? mmmmmm NO, Nor did mine. This is not the fault of Pilots, it is the fault of management. Stop blaming RAH pilots for your companies lack of direction and financial trouble. We were not the reason your company went bankrupt.

Actually, in a manner of speaking, he did. All we had to do was trash our work rules and cut our pay in half and we would be flying the E-jets. And Midwest never filed for bankruptcy which is very strange, we would probably be better off it they had.

 

[BUDDHA145]

First let me apologize if I offend any one but this is my ignorance not yours or any ones!!! why you guys turn down Airtran??? I actually never heard and awnser about it. or what happend there???

 

[Donsa320]

First let me apologize if I offend any one but this is my ignorance not yours or any ones!!! why you guys turn down Airtran??? I actually never heard and awnser about it. or what happend there???

$17.00 cash a share from TPG/NWA versus a couple of bucks a share cash and some Airtran stock from AAI. The pilots had no say in the matter, the Board of Directors would have been sued off the face of the Earth if they had turned TPG down.

 

[CitationLover]

I stole your job.................I love these statements. It really dumbfounds me as to how narrow minded pilots are. I didn't steel anything. last time I checked, I had nothing to do with the business decisions between your management and ours. Did your CEO come to you and ask your permission to make this business deal? mmmmmm NO, Nor did mine. This is not the fault of Pilots, it is the fault of management. Stop blaming RAH pilots for your companies lack of direction and financial trouble. We were not the reason your company went bankrupt. My Paycheck is signed by Republic not Midwest, So how did I take Your Job when I am flying My metal? "If" I walked onto a 717 to fly your metal with a Midwest paycheck, then thats different.

It's ok, you can fly for peanuts and keep nailing your own coffin in career earnings potential. When the Indians and Chinese come knocking for 60% less than what you earn don't come crying to me.

And Himmler used the same excuse you used. Now the IBT is stalling and showing their true colors. It's ok because I am "blessed" by my new CEO.

 

[AV1ATRX]

Just curious, CitationLover: when you get recalled to a 190, are you going to take it?

 

[likeitis]

Just curious, CitationLover: when you get recalled to a 190, are you going to take it?

Who could afford it? For What he is making right now it would be retarded. Taking recall right now from a job anywhere above lumber specialists at Home Depot would be foolish. At least at Home Depot you don't have to read a weekly sermon from some fool.

 

[ultrarunner]

$17.00 cash a share from TPG/NWA versus a couple of bucks a share cash and some Airtran stock from AAI. The pilots had no say in the matter, the Board of Directors would have been sued off the face of the Earth if they had turned TPG down.

Yeah, no doubt about it. 17 bucks a share for the shareholders was an incredible deal!

Airtran wasn't going to sweeten the pot, and their existing offer was going to expire, so MEH HAD to do something, or the stock would have tumbled to a buck or two at the time.

Smart move on managements part.

Now, had the MidEx pilot group been smart enough to demand it, or had the MidEx MEC been competent enough during initial contract negotitations to put in the language, there would have been SCOPE protection for the pilot group, and they wouldn't be facing extinction like they are now.

IMHO, THAT is why the MidEx pilot group lost their flying and their jobs along with it.

Jay S. is essentially an idiot, and you can blame him and ALPA national for not babysitting him during contract negotiations. There was NO reason whatsoever that the original TA should have ever been sent to the pilot group without SCOPE protection. C'mon folks, it 'aint like SCOPE was some new fangled issue at that time!

I know it's not popular opinion, but pilot groups LOVE to blame management for their woes, and that just does not apply in this case.

MEH did WAY more for their shareholders than the MidEx MEC EVER did for their pilot group.

And I lived it.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

 

[dougdrvr]

Yeah, no doubt about it. 17 bucks a share for the shareholders was an incredible deal!

Airtran wasn't going to sweeten the pot, and their existing offer was going to expire, so MEH HAD to do something, or the stock would have tumbled to a buck or two at the time.

Smart move on managements part.

Now, had the MidEx pilot group been smart enough to demand it, or had the MidEx MEC been competent enough during initial contract negotitations to put in the language, there would have been SCOPE protection for the pilot group, and they wouldn't be facing extinction like they are now.

IMHO, THAT is why the MidEx pilot group lost their flying and their jobs along with it.

Jay S. is essentially an idiot, and you can blame him and ALPA national for not babysitting him during contract negotiations. There was NO reason whatsoever that the original TA should have ever been sent to the pilot group without SCOPE protection. C'mon folks, it 'aint like SCOPE was some new fangled issue at that time!

I know it's not popular opinion, but pilot groups LOVE to blame management for their woes, and that just does not apply in this case.

MEH did WAY more for their shareholders than the MidEx MEC EVER did for their pilot group.

And I lived it.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

You can have the most air tight scope protection in the world but when it comes down to grieving an outragious violation to an arbitraitor and he gets sent on an all exspense paid vacation to the south of France by the other side, who do you think he's going to rule for?

 

[ultrarunner]

You can have the most air tight scope protection in the world but when it comes down to grieving an outragious violation to an arbitraitor and he gets sent on an all exspense paid vacation to the south of France by the other side, who do you think he's going to rule for?

Operative words are "air tight scope".

And you didn't even have that to begin with. That's my point.

 

[fam62c]

Yeah, no doubt about it. 17 bucks a share for the shareholders was an incredible deal!

Airtran wasn't going to sweeten the pot, and their existing offer was going to expire, so MEH HAD to do something, or the stock would have tumbled to a buck or two at the time.

Smart move on managements part.

Now, had the MidEx pilot group been smart enough to demand it, or had the MidEx MEC been competent enough during initial contract negotitations to put in the language, there would have been SCOPE protection for the pilot group, and they wouldn't be facing extinction like they are now.

IMHO, THAT is why the MidEx pilot group lost their flying and their jobs along with it.

Jay S. is essentially an idiot, and you can blame him and ALPA national for not babysitting him during contract negotiations. There was NO reason whatsoever that the original TA should have ever been sent to the pilot group without SCOPE protection. C'mon folks, it 'aint like SCOPE was some new fangled issue at that time!

I know it's not popular opinion, but pilot groups LOVE to blame management for their woes, and that just does not apply in this case.

MEH did WAY more for their shareholders than the MidEx MEC EVER did for their pilot group.

And I lived it.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Do you really think it's that simple? If you just have scope language that's tight enough an airline that can't make a profit just keeps all the planes and all the pilots? It's a business, if you can't make money you go away and Midwest struggled to make money after 9-11 even after things improved. In the weak economy after the TPG/NWA buyout Midex didn't stand a chance and no scope language on the planet was going to change that. The end was coming for Midwest one way or another and that die was cast years ago when the airline chose to stay small and cling to an outdated business model.

When are pilots going to figure out that scope doesn't mean anything unless the airline is profitable? The best scope in the world goes out the window if it gets modified in a bankruptcy hearing or if the company liquidates. It's a terrible situation for many pilots right now including the Midwest pilots and I feel bad for everybody who is without work (I'm one of them) but it is what it is and with or without Republic Midex was doomed by TH's lack of vision. This is just one of several potential end-game scenarios for Midwest, all of which would have resulted in all or most of the Midwest pilots out of work. Midwest as a business was unsustainable in anything other than a booming economy like the 1990's. If operating 37 717's and MD-80's out of a Milwaukee hub generated profits then the company would not have been broken up and then sold. It turned out like this because the company was a serial money loser. Small, boutique airlines just don't survive in this industry; their cost structure eventually kills them because they have no economy of scale. Midwest made it farther than any of the others in the past but in the end suffered the same fate.

 

[ultrarunner]

Fam62c, excellent post, and you are correct. The business model was simply not sustainable. TH and company did what they had to do when the end was near. The pilots would have been screwed in any event. I agree.

Ultra

 

[Airline Driver]

Actually, in a manner of speaking, he did. All we had to do was trash our work rules and cut our pay in half and we would be flying the E-jets. And Midwest never filed for bankruptcy which is very strange, we would probably be better off it they had.

I see your point sir, I should have used financial trouble vs Bankruptcy. My main point was simply to state that It is not the fault of a Pilot group for the financial trouble of another business. Pilots pointing fingers at other pilots is ludicrous.

 

[Airline Driver]

It's ok, you can fly for peanuts and keep nailing your own coffin in career earnings potential. When the Indians and Chinese come knocking for 60% less than what you earn don't come crying to me.

And Himmler used the same excuse you used. Now the IBT is stalling and showing their true colors. It's ok because I am "blessed" by my new CEO.

You are one bitter human being!!