SWA / Frontier Deal Off For Now!

[SWA2000]

Our union just sent this communication release:

Fellow Pilots,
Southwest Airlines made SWAPA aware of their intent to withdraw their bid to purchase Frontier Holdings if an agreement between SWAPA and FAPA could not be reached by midnight, EST on the 12th. Tonight SWAPA has reached an impasse with the Frontier Airline Pilots’ Association. Both parties have bargained all evening under a deadline for resolution for midnight (EST). At the deadline, neither party was willing to accept the other’s proposal. Southwest Airlines will petition the bankruptcy court for an extension on the Company’s final bid for Frontier tomorrow morning.
For the record, our standing position is to place all FAPA pilots at the bottom of the Southwest Master Pilot Seniority List and they remained committed to relative seniority integration; thus the impasse.
SWAPA Communications Committee




Unless the judge ok's the extension, looks like F9 will be intergrating a commuter airline.

 

[shearedshaft]

Nice work FAPA!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Oh well, they will all have to interview anyway. Lessee, bottom of the corndog list or remain a Capt. for 6 more months until Republik goes BK and strips them down anyway. Does not take an idiot to figger that one out, but the MEC will have to improve quite a bit to qualify for idiot status.
PBR

 

[GOULET!]

Nice work FAPA!

No kidding. Don't worry, if Southwest doesn't save you the Republic scum will.

 

[DH2WN]

I never seen anyone turn down a winning lottery ticket. What morons!! Pay protection with staple was fair and equitable. I bet there were 550 F9 pilots willing to take that deal and 50 old ass captain refusing to be FOs again with a $50k pay raise not including raise in benefits.

 

[Fly-diver]

Great news for SWAPA! Good luck at Republic, F9.

 

[StaySeated]

Great news for SWAPA! Good luck at Republic, F9.

It isn't great news for Craig, your most junior member. This deal couls have guaranteed that he wasn't going to be furloughed, or any SWA FO for that matter.

40 new airframes.

A Denver domicile.

Growth instead of "right-sizing".

No furloughs for any current SWA pilot.

Hopefully the court will approve an extension and a mutually beneficial agreement can be hammered out. This really is a potential win/win scenario for all involved.

 

[DH2WN]

Proud of SWAPA. Not one F9 pilot deserves to be senior to one SWAPA pilot.


So where are all the naysayers?? "You have to integrate it the law." "SWA will do what they want and the pilots will be forced into arbitration." Blah..Blah..Blah.. Yes SWA doesn't suck like your airline.

 

[Fly-diver]

It isn't great news for Craig, your most junior member. This deal couls have guaranteed that he wasn't going to be furloughed, or any SWA FO for that matter.

40 new airframes.

A Denver domicile.

Growth instead of "right-sizing".

No furloughs for any current SWA pilot.

Hopefully the court will approve an extension and a mutually beneficial agreement can be hammered out. This really is a potential win/win scenario for all involved.

All of that is coming Craig's way. It always was, it will just take a little longer now. Mergers/Acquisitions are messy. Organic growth is a better way to go. Frontier is done, they just don't know it yet. Republic will see to that.

 

[FDJ2]

Our union just sent this communication release:

Southwest Airlines will petition the bankruptcy court for an extension on the Company’s final bid for Frontier tomorrow morning.

Could it be that SWA may proceed with or without a negotiated prenup on the seniority list? With SWA looking for an extension it might just be that SWA needs this acquisition more than some think.

 

[vv100]

Negative

Could it be that SWA may proceed with or without a negotiated prenup on the seniority list? With SWA looking for an extension it might just be that SWA needs this acquisition more than some think.

KERA: Southwest CEO Says Labor Issue Could Be Frontier Deal Breaker (2009-08-12)

Southwest Airlines CEO Gary Kelly says one issue could break the deal Southwest has proposed for bankrupt Frontier Airlines, of Denver. A winning bidder could be announced this week. KERA's Bill Zeeble has more

Assuming Southwest's hundred-70 million dollar takeover bid for Frontier beats competitor Republic, Kelly says he'll stop the deal cold if Southwest and Frontier employees are in conflict.

Kelly: I won't go forward unless we have an agreement with their labor. And you see examples around the country where airlines have acquired other airlines and then left it up to unions over years to fight it out over a period of years. We're not going to do that.

When Fort Worth's American Airlines bought TWA, union groups from both carriers remained in conflict for a long time.

Kelly says Southwest employees and the corporate culture are too important to upend. He says he respects Frontier's workers but says if they end up working for Southwest, their pay would rise significantly.

Email Bill Zeeble

© Copyright 2009, KERA

Sorry boys you had a chance. FAPA just sold you out. RJ's are nice though. I'm sure Republic will take good care of you and your families, ask a Midway guy. And for the 450 F9 with apps in at WN, well, good luck with that.

 

[StaySeated]

All of that is coming Craig's way. It always was, it will just take a little longer now. Mergers/Acquisitions are messy. Organic growth is a better way to go. Frontier is done, they just don't know it yet. Republic will see to that.

And the best of luck to you my friend. I have been eating the biggest sh1t sandwich for a quite a while, yet I continue to behave as a gentlemen.

How do you feel about "organic" fleet reduction? Or "organic" furloughs?

I would never wish a job loss on another professional, but the reality of the situation is that this deal guarantees a job for every current SWA pilot. Do the majority of SWAPA pilots want to endure their first furlough in the history of the airline, or do they want a guaranteed buffer?

 

[Bake]

UMMMMM, SWA is not furloughing. Where do you get your news, FI.com??

 

[shearedshaft]

And the best of luck to you my friend. I have been eating the biggest sh1t sandwich for a quite a while, yet I continue to behave as a gentlemen.

How do you feel about "organic" fleet reduction? Or "organic" furloughs?

I would never wish a job loss on another professional, but the reality of the situation is that this deal guarantees a job for every current SWA pilot. Do the majority of SWAPA pilots want to endure their first furlough in the history of the airline, or do they want a guaranteed buffer?

Not flamebait, but an honest question: what do you think of your union president rolling the dice with your future? Are you glad that he wouldn't agree to giving you a SWA seniority number? If he had said "yes" tonight, you would have a SWA career ahead of you, but he said "no".

Does the average Frontier guy think that the other option is better? I know what I think, but I'm curious as to what you guys think.

 

[FDJ2]

Kelly: I won't go forward unless we have an agreement with their labor.

We'll see. Maybe he will pull the plug, but we've heard similar words before. An agreement with labor could just be a date certain integrated seniority list.

F9 pilots have rights, they should defend them.

 

[shearedshaft]

F9 pilots have rights, they should defend them.

Even though defending those rights just cost them an actual SWA seniority number and a $3 million career? Them's pretty expensive right.

 

[kwick]

Now the door maybe open for a serious consolidation of carriers such as JetBlue, Virgin, Frontier and Spirit.

That would be an interesting route structure.

 

[737lj]

Nothing on the website about this. Nothing in my inbox. I don't think the two sides are even negotiating that yet. We don't even have a contract. SWAPA Pres. said we don't start talking integration until we have a contract. Where did you get this info SWA2000?

 

[firstthird]

go look in the forums on our union website. our communications guy put out a blurb.

 

[vv100]

Word from FAPA

From TOF

"FAPA wants seat protection for their Captains and may be willing to allow the FO's to be stapled to the bottom."

WOW, ain't that a bitch. The senior just screwed the junior... again.

 

[tomgoodman]

Fat Lady on hold?

Tonight SWAPA has reached an impasse with the Frontier Airline Pilots’ Association. Both parties have bargained all evening under a deadline for resolution for midnight (EST). At the deadline, neither party was willing to accept the other’s proposal.

I don't know whether this deal will happen or should happen, but keep in mind that SLI agreements have almost never been reached without at least one side walking away from the table, and at least one "deadline extension". It's almost a required part of the procedure.

 

[firstthird]

I think the judge imposed deadline is a little different. I think that usually an SLI comes after a merger is completed and thus the threat is of binding arbitration whereas in this case, the threat is no deal getting done. perfectly fine by SWAPA's viewpoint. you could be right though, I'm really not a familiar with all of the recent SLIs as I could be.

 

[737lj]

Thanks

go look in the forums on our union website. our communications guy put out a blurb.

Found it, Thanks. Here's a shocker: I didn't realize we had an entire Frontier folder on the forum. I bet RAH will give seat protection to the F9 Captains. Good for them if that's what they really want.

 

[Dude]

BTW, the deal would have resulted in 24-47% raises for the F9 guys from their contract rates, not BK pay!

2 year fence, seniority number for current furloughees, seat protection until draw-down over next two years, DEN domicile protection, and carry longevity for pay and vacation. SOunds like a $hitty deal to me.

I hope your labor leadership realizes the difference between our deal and what Rep would offer.......

 

[flypdx]

BTW, the deal would have resulted in 24-47% raises for the F9 guys from their contract rates, not BK pay!

2 year fence, seniority number for current furloughees, seat protection until draw-down over next two years, DEN domicile protection, and carry longevity for pay and vacation. SOunds like a $hitty deal to me.

I hope your labor leadership realizes the difference between our deal and what Rep would offer.......

Yea, yea, yea.... But what about the animals????? The kids love em you know.

 

[The Victors]

Guess the F9 guys would rather sit in the left seat and make $120,000 vs sitting in the right seat and make $200,000+ with 5 weeks vacation. Assuming RAH lets them stay in the left seat.

 

[ThisistheDream]

I hope F9 doesnt follow the path of midwest, after saying no to Airtran they ended up with repbulic taking them over!!!

 

[GuppyWN]

Damn boys. That's quite a poker face you've got there in Denver!

You do realize it's SOUTHWEST AIRLINES trying to give you a job don't you?

Gup

 

[GlobeIII]

F9 Guys. Don't know if this is the Swan Song or not..but I really had wish this had ended up different. I had a neighbor who is a Midwest forloughee and he is adamant that any deal with Southwest is a better deal than with Republic. I don't know? I am not in his shoes, nor am I in yours. If the deal ends up with you guys under Republic's umbrella...best of luck to you.

Being a junior guy here at WN, I hope this isn't a case of your senior guys ruining a good thing for the junior guys....cuz that sh*t is getting old real quick, no matter what airline you work for.

I will be watching the news with great interest in the next 24hrs...hopefully there is last ditch maneuvering going on as I type this.

 

[GuppyWN]

It isn't great news for Craig, your most junior member. This deal couls have guaranteed that he wasn't going to be furloughed, or any SWA FO for that matter.

40 new airframes.

A Denver domicile.

Growth instead of "right-sizing".

No furloughs for any current SWA pilot.

Hopefully the court will approve an extension and a mutually beneficial agreement can be hammered out. This really is a potential win/win scenario for all involved.

What is your approximate seniority number and do you feel your career will be better off going to RAH over being stapled and pay protected at SOUTHWEST AIRLINES?

Gup