Here it Comes, Gen...SWA To ATL!?

[crj567]

Told you it was coming.....

http://www.ajc.com/business/southwest-could-begin-atlanta-104584.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

-Like I previously stated, all the bad ju-ju Delta has been laying out since the merger will come back around..... Just wait and see how fast all the ATL passengers, former employees and former investors RA has hosed will clamor all over each other to get onto an airline with a comparable domestic route structure! $59 each way-you pompus tool!

-Enjoy!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Read the article. It states that IF they buy Frontier, they MAY.

I know that SWA has plans to serve ATL in the 2012 time frame. Let em. I have talked to our boys and they are ready to fight. We are having a great time with them in MSP and SLC. Just watch it unfold.

SWA comes to ATL it will hurt AAI more than us.

 

[Fly4hire]

I think they serve DTW as well, although you hardly notice them. I guess we are all supposed to be scared.........

 

[generaltso]

I think Southwest is a great airline with a great product. But they are definitely getting away from their business model that has lasted them 30+ years... going in to smaller outlying airports where costs are much cheaper than the big cities. Now instead of MHT its BOS, instead of ISP its LGA... soon they are gonna be just like the rest of us. The labor costs are already there. The only thing they really have going for them is that they have resisted the temptation to get more airplane models.

With the direction SWA is headed in, they are going to be the same as the rest of us in a few years. Mark my words.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Only thing that scares me is the fact that every time I am in CA, and I am on a bus with them, they make our FA's look young! NO, I am not kidding.

SWA is great for what it is. I mean that. Business travelers hate em. They only use them when they have to by their corporate travel offices. I know. I have many friends that go crazy every time that is their only option.

FWIW, my father-in-law, no longer takes them. He lives in DFW and cannot stand them. He even takes AMR to AUS, and HOU. Business travelers what to work toward a perk, and getting to board first is not one they really care about. They want a seat assignment, awards that get them the good seats, and miles to burn for their vacations. After all who wants to go to BHM et al for vacation.

 

[FADEC]

Only thing that scares me is the fact that every time I am in CA, and I am on a bus with them, they make our FA's look young! NO, I am not kidding.

SWA is great for what it is. I mean that. Business travelers hate em. They only use them when they have to by their corporate travel offices. I know. I have many friends that go crazy every time that is their only option.

FWIW, my father-in-law, no longer takes them. He lives in DFW and cannot stand them. He even takes AMR to AUS, and HOU. Business travelers what to work toward a perk, and getting to board first is not one they really care about. They want a seat assignment, awards that get them the good seats, and miles to burn for their vacations. After all who wants to go to BHM et al for vacation.

Unfortunately you are convincing nobody but yourself. Really... all those business travellers love those CRJ200s.

 

[Red Baron]

Only thing that scares me is the fact that every time I am in CA, and I am on a bus with them, they make our FA's look young! NO, I am not kidding.

SWA is great for what it is. I mean that. Business travelers hate em. They only use them when they have to by their corporate travel offices. I know. I have many friends that go crazy every time that is their only option.

FWIW, my father-in-law, no longer takes them. He lives in DFW and cannot stand them. He even takes AMR to AUS, and HOU. Business travelers what to work toward a perk, and getting to board first is not one they really care about. They want a seat assignment, awards that get them the good seats, and miles to burn for their vacations. After all who wants to go to BHM et al for vacation.

Wow. We must really suck. I will tell Gary. Thanks.

 

[crj567]

Read the article. It states that IF they buy Frontier, they MAY.

I know that SWA has plans to serve ATL in the 2012 time frame. Let em. I have talked to our boys and they are ready to fight. We are having a great time with them in MSP and SLC. Just watch it unfold.

SWA comes to ATL it will hurt AAI more than us.

I DID read the article. This is the way these things are telegraphed to the investment world. They WILL be knocking on your door-soon. Just look how much business they took away from United in Denver and Chicago. SWA is about 80% of the reason UAL is on the ropes right now.

You are correct about one thing: The are getting away from their business model. They have decided to go head-to-head with the legacies and inflict maximum damage. SWA mgmt. knows what they are doing. They will use their much lower cost structure to bleed you. So-the "inspired leadership team" has you bleeding red ink into Africa and all over Europe, and soon they will have to complete against a low-fare carrier with a much larger route structure than AirTran.

P.S.- You can fight all you want. The problem is very simple: You have a large, inefficient route structure with many aircraft types (a really ridiculous number-post merger,) and SWA has just one type and a very efficient structure. Your Cost Per Seat seat mile last quarter was 10.51 cents. SWA had a CASM of 9.52 cents. That is what smart people would refer to as a "big problem."

-RA has done a fabulous job of pissing off many locals, contractors, passengers, investors (who really hate losing money forever.) and pretty much everyone else who anything to do with the new NWA. Just like I stated earlier-he will need every friend he can find, and his track record in the "friends" department so far leaves a bit to be desired.

 

[General Lee]

Told you it was coming.....

http://www.ajc.com/business/southwest-could-begin-atlanta-104584.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

-Like I previously stated, all the bad ju-ju Delta has been laying out since the merger will come back around..... Just wait and see how fast all the ATL passengers, former employees and former investors RA has hosed will clamor all over each other to get onto an airline with a comparable domestic route structure! $59 each way-you pompus tool!

-Enjoy!

Well, Frontier has one gate in ATL with it's 3 daily flights. I guess they can have one nonstop to LBB, one to Boise, and one to Midway. That will be FANTASTIC to see them here.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I DID read the article. This is the way these things are telegraphed to the investment world. They WILL be knocking on your door-soon. Just look how much business they took away from United in Denver and Chicago. SWA is about 80% of the reason UAL is on the ropes right now.

You are correct about one thing: The are getting away from their business model. They have decided to go head-to-head with the legacies and inflict maximum damage. SWA mgmt. knows what they are doing. They will use their much lower cost structure to bleed you. So-the "inspired leadership team" has you bleeding red ink into Africa and all over Europe, and soon they will have to complete against a low-fare carrier with a much larger route structure than AirTran.

P.S.- You can fight all you want. The problem is very simple: You have a large, inefficient route structure with many aircraft types (a really ridiculous number-post merger,) and SWA has just one type and a very efficient structure. Your Cost Per Seat seat mile last quarter was 10.51 cents. SWA had a CASM of 9.52 cents. That is what smart people would refer to as a "big problem."

-RA has done a fabulous job of pissing off many locals, contractors, passengers, investors (who really hate losing money forever.) and pretty much everyone else who anything to do with the new NWA. Just like I stated earlier-he will need every friend he can find, and his track record in the "friends" department so far leaves a bit to be desired.

Obviously you haven't read any of the other posts. We fight Southwest at other hubs, and no biggie. In ATL, there aren't a lot of gates available, period. Both Delta and Airtran want it that way. Southwest will have limited resources to mount any fight. And if they try something, both DL and Airtran will double the flights to which ever cities they fly to, and kick them out like we did to Jetblue. Honestly, it will be FANTASTIC to watch. I will watch it as much as I can, as I prepare to fly to Munich.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Wow. We must really suck. I will tell Gary. Thanks.

Will you bid the Dash-8-400 if it becomes available?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[johnboy99]

Only thing that scares me is the fact that every time I am in CA, and I am on a bus with them, they make our FA's look young! NO, I am not kidding.

SWA is great for what it is. I mean that. Business travelers hate em. They only use them when they have to by their corporate travel offices. I know. I have many friends that go crazy every time that is their only option.

FWIW, my father-in-law, no longer takes them. He lives in DFW and cannot stand them. He even takes AMR to AUS, and HOU. Business travelers what to work toward a perk, and getting to board first is not one they really care about. They want a seat assignment, awards that get them the good seats, and miles to burn for their vacations. After all who wants to go to BHM et al for vacation.

Your kidding right, it was a joke. Delta rapes its customers with ticket change fees and baggage fees. I know several business travelers who would rather drive two hours to take Southwest than drive across town and fly Delta. Redeeming frequent flyer miles, yeah right try going anywhere popular anytime during the year. Why Southwest, because they are friendly and passengers don't have to sweat like a pig in a slaughter house on a Delta (connection) regional jet. Remember 50 percent of Delta flying is done on a regional jet. Delta has alot of great qualities but customer service is not one of them. When was the last time Delta made the top 5 in a customer satisfaction survey. Why do people travel on them, because they go everywhere. Not because there are other options.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The first part was funny, but the second part I am dead serious.

SWA is to have plenty of gate access on the new international terminal which they will trade for the city gates on D. They will have as much of ATL as they want. I am sure of it. I say bring it on.
You will watch the cost per seat mile at DAL go down and quite quickly after SOC. I like having this many types of jets. That means we have the correct jet on the correct route. That will mean huge profits, and deeper pockets than we have today.

I also know that SWA and DAL are not dumb enough to try and kill each other. They will pick off other, not each other.

 

[fiel12]

Read the article. It states that IF they buy Frontier, they MAY.

I know that SWA has plans to serve ATL in the 2012 time frame. Let em. I have talked to our boys and they are ready to fight. We are having a great time with them in MSP and SLC. Just watch it unfold.

SWA comes to ATL it will hurt AAI more than us.

Such a great time in MSP that you guys are eliminating 2 daily flights to MDW, and you're flying half full airplanes while I'm stuck sitting in the JS or fourth on WN flights. BTW, You'd be amazed how many MSP passengers express to me their excitement to have SWA in MSP during my commutes. Even Business travelers.

 

[goahead]

Keep telling yourself they're no big deal.

 

[Superpilot92]

i cant wait because that means DAL will throw more mainline planes on routes in place of RJs to compete with SWA and Tranny, which means more mainline flying, bring it!!

btw~CRJ567 = d ouche nozzle

 

[crj567]

The first part was funny, but the second part I am dead serious.

SWA is to have plenty of gate access on the new international terminal which they will trade for the city gates on D. They will have as much of ATL as they want. I am sure of it. I say bring it on.
You will watch the cost per seat mile at DAL go down and quite quickly after SOC. I like having this many types of jets. That means we have the correct jet on the correct route. That will mean huge profits, and deeper pockets than we have today.

I also know that SWA and DAL are not dumb enough to try and kill each other. They will pick off other, not each other.

O.K.-

I will make this real simple. Looks like you could use help.

-Straight from the Q2 2009 balance sheets.

DAL had 59,029 (million) available seat miles, multiplied by 10.51 Cents per available seat/mile.

SWA had 19,683 (million) available seat miles, multiplied by 9.52 cents per available seat/mile.

Even though a penny CASM difference sound insignificant, just look at the available seat miles for comparison. Your operating costs are WAY WAY WAY higher overall. Your over-exposure to INTL routes ensures that there is really no way to compete effectively.

When SWA has less than half the total overhead, they can afford to give $59 fares, and they can totally kick your butt (just like UAL.) Swimming in KoolAid really won't help much when they roll into town.

-Those are big numbers. I don't think I would be yelling "bring it on" so loud, they may just hear you.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Read it again. I understand the law of multiplication. Really I do. I also know where we are projecting our costs per seat mile to be after we get done with this merger and stop taking the one time hits.
Do not read what I said, if you do not want to.

Wonder why. See our frequent from ATL? See the cities we have added to MSP. They are not MDW. They are cities that you connect your passengers to out of MDW. Big picture here. Take the MDW 39 dollar one way one leg passengers, that is not where you make your money. You make it on the multiple leg, multiple destinations ones. That are the ones that we have targeted and are getting.

Research about two to three layers inside the onion and see what is really going on. There is more to come.

 

[crj567]

Read it again. I understand the law of multiplication. Really I do. I also know where we are projecting our costs per seat mile to be after we get done with this merger and stop taking the one time hits.
Do not read what I said, if you do not want to.

Wonder why. See our frequent from ATL? See the cities we have added to MSP. They are not MDW. They are cities that you connect your passengers to out of MDW. Big picture here. Take the MDW 39 dollar one way one leg passengers, that is not where you make your money. You make it on the multiple leg, multiple destinations ones. That are the ones that we have targeted and are getting.

Research about two to three layers inside the onion and see what is really going on. There is more to come.

O.K.
So you really think that DAL's worldwide route structure can be priced equally with SWA's? So, umpteen different aircraft types, and routes all around the world, and there are no extra embedded expenses? SWA simply has a much more efficient cost structure. Multiplication will lead you a very large number, which should begin to cause large concern on your part.

-Well- you do buy that "synergy" crap hook-line-and-sinker, so that would indicate that you are a sucker. Suckers think that "one-time-charges" and "writeoffs" can account for such unfcomfortable discrepancies. It is obvious that you know very little about reading a balance sheet. The CASM difference is not going to be resolved by B.S. "synergies" or cost cutting measures of any kind. The extra costs are simply embedded in your type of operation-this is called a competitive advantage (for Southwest.)

If KoolAid consumption is all you know and all you wish to know, then I obviously cannot offer any help. I would probably stop peeling that onion if I were you... Tears are sure to follow.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

i cant wait because that means DAL will throw more mainline planes on routes in place of RJs to compete with SWA and Tranny, which means more mainline flying, bring it!!

btw~CRJ567 = d ouche nozzle

I have no brilliant insight to add to this discussion other than to say that d ouche nozzle has quite possibly just surpassed f uck head in my swear word heirarchy. Nicely done.

On second thought, I do have insight to add (not brilliant insight, mind you). The topic of the evening is "Why does CRJ567 sit at his computer all day long looking for any news article that he can post with an anti-Delta spin??

Is it because:
a) He resents the fact that he works for a subcontractor and harbors ill will towards the company that ultimately signs his paycheck.

b) He actually works for SWA and is spearheading their quest for world domination (otherwise known as "All Roads lead to LBB"....)

c) He's 14 years old and he still has spare time between his MS Flight Sim virtual airline, his acne treatments, and his "special" time with the magazines he found under daddy's bed.

d) he's a d ouche nozzle (loved that one so much I had to use it twice!!!)

 

[Eagle757shark]

I think Southwest is a great airline with a great product. But they are definitely getting away from their business model that has lasted them 30+ years... going in to smaller outlying airports where costs are much cheaper than the big cities. Now instead of MHT its BOS, instead of ISP its LGA... soon they are gonna be just like the rest of us. The labor costs are already there. The only thing they really have going for them is that they have resisted the temptation to get more airplane models.

With the direction SWA is headed in, they are going to be the same as the rest of us in a few years. Mark my words.

It's called adjusting to the market place so that you can remain competitive.

 

[crj567]

I have no brilliant insight to add to this discussion other than to say that d ouche nozzle has quite possibly just surpassed f uck head in my swear word heirarchy. Nicely done.

On second thought, I do have insight to add (not brilliant insight, mind you). The topic of the evening is "Why does CRJ567 sit at his computer all day long looking for any news article that he can post with an anti-Delta spin??

Is it because:
a) He resents the fact that he works for a subcontractor and harbors ill will towards the company that ultimately signs his paycheck.

b) He actually works for SWA and is spearheading their quest for world domination (otherwise known as "All Roads lead to LBB"....)

c) He's 14 years old and he still has spare time between his MS Flight Sim virtual airline, his acne treatments, and his "special" time with the magazines he found under daddy's bed.

d) he's a d ouche nozzle (loved that one so much I had to use it twice!!!)

You can call me whatever you want. You can attempt to rationalize away all these things which make you uncomfortable. None of this will change the fact that I am right.

 

[fflyerworld]

Funny how Delta is suddenly the target to beat! There is a reason behind this and it is HUGE! All I can say is a pig in a dress is still a pig (SWA). I will NEVER step foot on one of their aircraft. Talk about comical and unrprofessional. Their micky mouse technology will catch up with them soon if they attempt any true growth. Never forget a few years back my niece flying from SNA to PHX on SW and thunderstorms in area forced major delays. The SWA fid screens were a complete disaster and her flight diverted to Tucson - YET their fid screen stated "FIXIN TO LAND" - LOL - Very very high quality!

 

[PuffDriver]

You can call me whatever you want. You can attempt to rationalize away all these things which make you uncomfortable. None of this will change the fact that I am right.

Yawn, go away and start looking for a job. The bell tolls.

 

[Red Baron]

"Their micky mouse technology will catch up with them soon if they attempt any true growth."



Just curious, is 3000 plus flights a day not true growth? I am sorry it does not meet your criteria. BTW, we just yell "FIXIN TO LAND" now to save costs from those "expensive" flat screens.

 

[fflyerworld]

"Their micky mouse technology will catch up with them soon if they attempt any true growth."



Just curious, is 3000 plus flights a day not true growth? I am sorry it does not meet your criteria. BTW, we just yell "FIXIN TO LAND" now to save costs from those "expensive" flat screens.

And being from Texas - why should I be surprised!!! Speaking of any future growth not past or previous. Gary himself stated years ago that you needed to spend $$ on technology in order to keep up with growth. Are you not aware that your software at SWA has not been capable of seat assignments? Just one of many many issues with your backwards technology.
Oh and btw - my nieces flight canceled in Tucson and she was bused to PHX arriving 5 hours later and your FID screen still stated "Fixin to Land" LOL

 

[LUVChild]

Gary himself stated years ago that you needed to spend $$ on technology in order to keep up with growth. Are you not aware that your software at SWA has not been capable of seat assignments? Just one of many many issues with your backwards technology.

I usually stay off FI, but morbid curiousity after the Frontier announcement brought me back here. Good thing I wasn't disappointed.

Actually, fflyer, you are wrong about the technology. Dead wrong. But considering you're shooting from the hip and making a bunch of assumptions, I'm not surprised.

It's not that WN's technology can't do assigned seating - they don't want to. The customers (based on numerous surveys) don't want them to. This is why WN changed their boarding procedure a couple of years ago.

And you may think it's backwards, but technology at an airline is an expensive investment. Often, it doesn't yield the return on investments that are promised - hence, WN has always been a little weary of "gee wiz" technology. They're catching up, but they're doing it carefullly. The investments in technology go far beyond piddly concepts like assigned seating - they're often things that are completely transparent to the customer but provide better service in the end. That's part of what Gary was talking about.

Sorry to hear about your niece, and sorry to hear WN isn't up to your standards. But we don't try to be all things to everyone. However, considering we're doing better than the vast majority of airlines in this country, I'll venture to say that we're doing something right.

 

[fflyerworld]

You certainly are entitled to your opinion as I am as well as others and with all due respect - there is no "shooting from the hip" on the technology issue that you utilize at SWA. In fact, you state clearly in your posting that SWA needs to do some catching up. Your statement sums up exactly what I already know to be factual. Enough said!

 

[d.fitz]

I think Southwest is a great airline with a great product. But they are definitely getting away from their business model that has lasted them 30+ years... going in to smaller outlying airports where costs are much cheaper than the big cities. Now instead of MHT its BOS, instead of ISP its LGA... soon they are gonna be just like the rest of us. The labor costs are already there. The only thing they really have going for them is that they have resisted the temptation to get more airplane models.

With the direction SWA is headed in, they are going to be the same as the rest of us in a few years. Mark my words.

You are dead on correct. The only way to stay in business is to grow. Their business model is complete. There are no more under served, profit producing markets. Now they get to compete just like everyone else, and hopefully with a new airplane type to boot. The adjustments are not going to be easy.

 

[snow-back]

You guys are funny. Everyone's beating their chests about how my airline is better than your airline. Here's a news flash! All the airlines SUCK! The planes are packed, airline employees are numb to passengers' needs, you may or may not get to your destination on time if at all and the TSA is just icing on the cake. Business travelers don't want to ride on ANY airline. I've ridden on several different airlines over the past few years and can state with a clear conscience that not one of them has done anything to differentiate themselves from another. Mediocrity (at best) abounds. It's anywhere from a tolerable to miserable experience regardless.

Aside: I'd personally rather ride on a SWA 737 than a Delta or UAL RJ (I know they are not really DAL or UAL, but that's how the airlines brand them).

PS fflyerworld: For someone who will never set foot on a SWA plane, you seem to have a lot of insight. Do you hang around their gates and observe? You should hear what people say about YOUR airline!