AirTran Management Still Demanding Concessions

[T3700]

Fellow pilots,

Your MEC Officers received a full debriefing this morning from members of the Negotiating Committee (NC). We were hopeful that meaningful progress could be made in closing several smaller sections of the contract. Unfortunately, your MEC was disappointed that no sections of the contract were TA’d. Despite our NC’s hard work for many months on drafting a realistic, comprehensive proposal and submitting it weeks in advance, the company submitted a “new” comprehensive proposal of their own that contains concessions in virtually every area of the contract.

In order to give you an idea of the company’s concessionary proposal, here is a sampling of their “wish list”:

* Outsourcing of jet aircraft up to 100 seats
* A renewal of the company’s demands for “core credit” similar to TA1
* Assigning ready reserve to line holders
* Captains forced to fly right seat
* Increased ability for the company to junior assign, reassign, and downline draft
* Up to 30% annual increase in employee health plan co-pays and premiums
* Company contributions to the retirement plan dependent upon prior year’s financial performance
* Contract duration of 5 years

 

[WayBack]

Fellow pilots,

Your MEC Officers received a full debriefing this morning from members of the Negotiating Committee (NC). We were hopeful that meaningful progress could be made in closing several smaller sections of the contract. Unfortunately, your MEC was disappointed that no sections of the contract were TA’d. Despite our NC’s hard work for many months on drafting a realistic, comprehensive proposal and submitting it weeks in advance, the company submitted a “new” comprehensive proposal of their own that contains concessions in virtually every area of the contract.

In order to give you an idea of the company’s concessionary proposal, here is a sampling of their “wish list”:

* Outsourcing of jet aircraft up to 100 seats
* A renewal of the company’s demands for “core credit” similar to TA1
* Assigning ready reserve to line holders
* Captains forced to fly right seat
* Increased ability for the company to junior assign, reassign, and downline draft
* Up to 30% annual increase in employee health plan co-pays and premiums
* Company contributions to the retirement plan dependent upon prior year’s financial performance
* Contract duration of 5 years

Ah yes, more banter by ALPO, only to fold to companies wish list.
Alpa is excellent and helping outsource their own pilots flying. Look at TSA, ExpressJet is doing their flying out of ORD now, while TSA is furloughing more and more guys.
ALPA is good at making ready reserves sound all not that horrible. In some fashion, they will try and tell you that they're a good "trade off" for something else.
Increased Jr. Manning? No problem, just grieve it! That's what the CP and union reps will tell you.
Soon you will realize why it was a waste of time to vote in ALPO.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Wayback your a dumba$$. mgmt`s been asking for this sh!t for the last five years. If they bring us crap again we will vote it down again.

 

[Kenney G]

Fellow pilots,

Your MEC Officers received a full debriefing this morning from members of the Negotiating Committee (NC). We were hopeful that meaningful progress could be made in closing several smaller sections of the contract. Unfortunately, your MEC was disappointed that no sections of the contract were TA’d. Despite our NC’s hard work for many months on drafting a realistic, comprehensive proposal and submitting it weeks in advance, the company submitted a “new” comprehensive proposal of their own that contains concessions in virtually every area of the contract.

In order to give you an idea of the company’s concessionary proposal, here is a sampling of their “wish list”:

* Outsourcing of jet aircraft up to 100 seats
* A renewal of the company’s demands for “core credit” similar to TA1
* Assigning ready reserve to line holders
* Captains forced to fly right seat
* Increased ability for the company to junior assign, reassign, and downline draft
* Up to 30% annual increase in employee health plan co-pays and premiums
* Company contributions to the retirement plan dependent upon prior year’s financial performance
* Contract duration of 5 years

When are you guys going to wake up and do what is needed. Look how long jet blue took to slow things down, one day! It has been 5 years now? How about not taxing your planes like SWA. Slow yourself down. Nothing illegal about that.

 

[FlyinGuy]

The problem with "slowing down", is that you need everyone to be on board. If the union puts anything out like that, then they could be accused of demanding or requesting an illegal job action. A very tricky place to be, but I think if any pilot group can get together and do a "slow down" it will show management how much we control/save money and time.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

The problem with "slowing down", is that you need everyone to be on board. If the union puts anything out like that, then they could be accused of demanding or requesting an illegal job action. A very tricky place to be, but I think if any pilot group can get together and do a "slow down" it will show management how much we control/save money and time.

Agreed.

 

[COpilot]

backa$$

What does ALPA as your union now; have to do with what the company is asking for?

"folding" to the company demands has nothing to do the ALPA, and everything to do with what the collective group of Airtran pilots choose. Not what DL, CO, UA alpa pilots think. "duh"!

 

[Lear70]

It's a shill game.

The farther apart they can get from us on an agreement, the harder it is to get released into self-help. Management back-pedaling during a period of profitability looks bad to the mediator, but they can always hide behind "trying to keep costs low in a bad economic environment" to draw things out longer.

I'm sure they believe the pilots are motivated and starting to work towards a strike, and they're taking the steps they can to draw it out as long as possible, make it as difficult as possible, and lower expectations as much as possible before they're forced into a corner.

It's just business for them, even though it's OUR livelihoods they're playing with.

 

[Kenney G]

The problem with "slowing down", is that you need everyone to be on board. If the union puts anything out like that, then they could be accused of demanding or requesting an illegal job action. A very tricky place to be, but I think if any pilot group can get together and do a "slow down" it will show management how much we control/save money and time.

Your union cant tell you to slow down. You can do it on your own. Do you really think someone is out there with a radar gun on your taxi speeds? Do you have to start your engines while you push back or do you wait for the tug to disconnect? Do the flight attendants see any seat belt signs that are burnt out? Are you taking a more direct route so you can get off 3 min earlier? Take a stand yourself. Don't do anything fraudulent i.e. break something yourself. Is 5 years long enough to stand up for yourself? I would be if the FO's taxied your planes you might have gotten a contract years ago. Just my own opinion.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Your union cant tell you to slow down. You can do it on your own. Do you really think someone is out there with a radar gun on your taxi speeds? Do you have to start your engines while you push back or do you wait for the tug to disconnect? Do the flight attendants see any seat belt signs that are burnt out? Are you taking a more direct route so you can get off 3 min earlier? Take a stand yourself. Don't do anything fraudulent i.e. break something yourself. Is 5 years long enough to stand up for yourself? I would be if the FO's taxied your planes you might have gotten a contract years ago. Just my own opinion.

True. Maybe just maybe a few guys will reach down and grab their pitiful excuses they like to call balls and do what needs to be done. I'm not real optimistic though. The guy I flew with last week gives me hope, but there are sadly very few out leading the way. Everyone needs to quit waiting for someone to hold their hand and show them the way.

For the love of god captains, stop waiting for "everyone else" and lead by example.

BTW Those of you who are already... spare me the indignation, clearly I'm not referring to you.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Stand by to have your expectations managed....

Delta did this to us:

1) Put out a total turd of an opener. (no deadhead pay etc. etc.)
2) ALPA said heck no. (Looking tough to membership)
3) Management said we aren't budging. We'll go out of business...(Looking tough to wall street)
4) ALPA runs strike prep (Looking tough to membership AND Wall Street)
5) Last minute (Easter Weekend) TA agreed which contains numerous concessions "But not as bad as what we could have faced based on management's opener". (Pilot's think they beat down the company negotiators)
6) Pilot group agrees thinking "Yeah, we showed them!"
7) Management high fives Wall street saying "See, we knew they'd cave to concessions!"
8) Everyone saves face....Union with membership and management with investors.

Be ready for it, this playbook gets passed around at all of the Wings club CEO conferences as required reading.

Don't get fooled folks!!!

 

[Captain Jeff]

The problem with "slowing down", is that you need everyone to be on board.

Don't worry about everyone else, just do your part.

 

[Eagle757shark]

Ah yes, more banter by ALPO, only to fold to companies wish list.
Alpa is excellent and helping outsource their own pilots flying. Look at TSA, ExpressJet is doing their flying out of ORD now, while TSA is furloughing more and more guys.
ALPA is good at making ready reserves sound all not that horrible. In some fashion, they will try and tell you that they're a good "trade off" for something else.
Increased Jr. Manning? No problem, just grieve it! That's what the CP and union reps will tell you.
Soon you will realize why it was a waste of time to vote in ALPO.

Please explain to me how it is ALPA's fault that AirTran management walked in and offered a proposal that would ruin a wet dream? This is the most hostile management group in the industry and I'm glad we have ALPA on board assisting our negotiating team. Management submitted their dumbass proposal and the union ignored it like they should have and tried to negotiate what the AirTran pilots want. All the pilots at AirTran received an update on our last contract talks and I hope all of them are mad as hell. If they aren't, then they deserve to be held accountable on reserve on a day off, or put on ready reserve as a line holder after they complete a trip. We are dealing with a management team at AirTran that is clueless, however a lot of pilots that are afraid of these clowns. Well, back to the pool to cool off....

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Strike!

 

[PCL_128]

Stand by to have your expectations managed....

Delta did this to us:

1) Put out a total turd of an opener. (no deadhead pay etc. etc.)
2) ALPA said heck no. (Looking tough to membership)
3) Management said we aren't budging. We'll go out of business...(Looking tough to wall street)
4) ALPA runs strike prep (Looking tough to membership AND Wall Street)
5) Last minute (Easter Weekend) TA agreed which contains numerous concessions "But not as bad as what we could have faced based on management's opener". (Pilot's think they beat down the company negotiators)
6) Pilot group agrees thinking "Yeah, we showed them!"
7) Management high fives Wall street saying "See, we knew they'd cave to concessions!"
8) Everyone saves face....Union with membership and management with investors.

Be ready for it, this playbook gets passed around at all of the Wings club CEO conferences as required reading.

Don't get fooled folks!!!

We aren't in bankruptcy. In fact, we're on track for a record year. The only reason you got raped with concessions was because of the bankruptcy laws. Unions have no leverage when negotiating in bankruptcy. This situation is a little bit different, and you can bet your life that the ATN MEC won't be entertaining the idea of concessions.

 

[WayBack]

We aren't in bankruptcy. In fact, we're on track for a record year. 1The only reason you got raped with concessions was because of the bankruptcy laws.2Unions have no leverage when negotiating in bankruptcy. 3This situation is a little bit different, and you can bet your life that the ATN MEC won't be entertaining the idea of concessions.

1. The reason they raped you is because they know they can have their way with ALPA, because ALPA is spineless.
2. Unions have no leverage at all.
3. Quit your tough guy talk. ALPA's middle name is concessions. Give, Give, Give...that's all they do. Look at history.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

We aren't in bankruptcy. In fact, we're on track for a record year. The only reason you got raped with concessions was because of the bankruptcy laws. Unions have no leverage when negotiating in bankruptcy. This situation is a little bit different, and you can bet your life that the ATN MEC won't be entertaining the idea of concessions.

True!! good point

 

[DonVerita]

1. The reason they raped you is because they know they can have their way with ALPA, because ALPA is spineless.
2. Unions have no leverage at all.
3. Quit your tough guy talk. ALPA's middle name is concessions. Give, Give, Give...that's all they do. Look at history.

I'd love to know who you fly for...with all your Cessna and Beech experience.

Did Management promise you a pink colored tulip if you did whatever they said? Go back to being a lapdog.

 

[aussieflyboy]

You guys have to be careful with your talk about slow-downs and the like on a forum like this.
There have been many cases where the people who run the aviation forums have been subpoenaed for the identity of members to take them to task over their postings regarding job actions.

If AirTran pilots were to slow down their operations the AirTran management could easily ascertain the identity of people who encouraged such an action on a forum such as this.

Be careful what you post. You never know who's reading it and what the repercussions might be.

 

[WayBack]

I'd love to know who you fly for...with all your Cessna and Beech experience.

Did Management promise you a pink colored tulip if you did whatever they said? Go back to being a lapdog.

I'm sorry all that Beech time doesn't equate to your massive DashTrash time. How does that make me pro management? Because I see BS in ALPO and call it? Not my fault you you buy into their crap just like you do when Hussien Obama talks.
So back to making cute little kitty cats as your avatar, princess buttercup.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Fellow pilots,

Your MEC Officers received a full debriefing this morning from members of the Negotiating Committee (NC). We were hopeful that meaningful progress could be made in closing several smaller sections of the contract. Unfortunately, your MEC was disappointed that no sections of the contract were TA’d. Despite our NC’s hard work for many months on drafting a realistic, comprehensive proposal and submitting it weeks in advance, the company submitted a “new” comprehensive proposal of their own that contains concessions in virtually every area of the contract.

In order to give you an idea of the company’s concessionary proposal, here is a sampling of their “wish list”:

* Outsourcing of jet aircraft up to 100 seats
* A renewal of the company’s demands for “core credit” similar to TA1
* Assigning ready reserve to line holders
* Captains forced to fly right seat
* Increased ability for the company to junior assign, reassign, and downline draft
* Up to 30% annual increase in employee health plan co-pays and premiums
* Company contributions to the retirement plan dependent upon prior year’s financial performance
* Contract duration of 5 years

You lost me at 100 seat RJ's. They can GO F@#$ THEMSELVES!

 

[Britpilot]

1. The reason they raped you is because they know they can have their way with alpa, because alpa is spineless.
2. Unions have no leverage at all.
3. Quit your tough guy talk. Alpa's middle name is concessions. Give, give, give...that's all they do. Look at history.

stfu--------------

 

[scarlet]

ASA= almost 6 years of no contract.

Pilots had enough!!! I would say 5-8 days of 35% on time. You know it =Contract was signed.

The union said nothing, the pilots got to be big boys and take care of things!

I walk the 717 and see metal showing in EVERY seat cushion. Our passengers are complaining about the seats, and PILOTS here DO NOTHING!!! Company says do not write that in the logbook, call catering. When does catering repair things on an aircraft. I believe it is a safety issue! Go to the back of almost every 717 and take a seat in the coach in about 30-40 seats.

Airtran=Look at the ASA guys couple years ago. I remember hearing you are number 35 on MX list, be there in 2.5 hours. Oh well. At ASA we had alot of MX line guys. Airtran has 14-15 line MX guys.!! And for all you STRIKE people=WE all will lose in a strike! So STFU, we run the airline (throttles,flying safe, taxi, starting engines,no short cuts,etc) you can not do that on a strike. They would close the doors here and start another airline with about 500-700 pilots here going there. Be a little smarter.

We would have contract in 7 days, when pilots get serious! Look at Alaska payrates and figure out how much you are losing a month!

 

[dh82dvr]

I was taught you taxi at a fast walking pace. In the interests of safety maybe both engines should be running during taxi out.

 

[Ty Webb]

If AirTran pilots were to slow down their operations the AirTran management could easily ascertain the identity of people who encouraged such an action on a forum such as this..

If you're talking about AirTran pilots, that's probably good advice, but it looks to me like the people offering that advice are not AirTran pilots.

 

[BOOZENEWS]

If you're talking about AirTran pilots, that's probably good advice

There is nothing illegal about even AirTran pilots doing it as long as it is not the UNION asking for it.

 

[DonVerita]

I'm sorry all that Beech time doesn't equate to your massive DashTrash time. How does that make me pro management? Because I see BS in ALPO and call it? Not my fault you you buy into their crap just like you do when Hussien Obama talks.
So back to making cute little kitty cats as your avatar, princess buttercup.

You're a management punk, pure and simple.

Come walk a day in our shoes over here, then try to tell me about the faults of ALPA. Our in-house union (NPA) was a disaster, a folly of management, incompetent and disorganized to the core. All of that has changed now that ALPA is here.

But it looks like your vitriol goes beyond ALPA. You are still bitter because you lost the presidential election. We now have a PRO-LABOR president in the oval office. What's your problem with that? Do you understand the far reaching ramifications of what that means to organized labor?

But let's see...your avatar says it all. Go back to watering your flowers tulip, and hope your audition to the Village People arrives; because its plain as day to see that you are no trade unionist. Oh, and if you come up with a better union than ALPA, do let us know.

 

[Ty Webb]

There is nothing illegal about even AirTran pilots doing it as long as it is not the UNION asking for it.

Oh, I agree that there's nothing illegal about AirTran pilots doing it, but the Company might have recourse against an employee that they don't have against a non-employee . . . . 'nuff said about dat.

 

[cybourg10]

1. The reason they raped you is because they know they can have their way with ALPA, because ALPA is spineless.
2. Unions have no leverage at all.
3. Quit your tough guy talk. ALPA's middle name is concessions. Give, Give, Give...that's all they do. Look at history.

Looking at the history pf ALPA up until 2001 it looks pretty good with a lot of hard fought battles for better quality and safety. Post 911 ALPA does not look great but the profession would have never been so good in the first place without ALPA. It seems you need to do some more research on the history of this union and what you take for granted every day was fought by guys with the balls to stand up, guys that do not exist anymore in the numbers they once did. So please stop spouting off about how ALPA is spineless and unions have no leverage at all, unions raised the standard for millions of middle class americans in post WWII times. Do you really think be non unionized would be better for us?

 

[MINIME]

You're a management punk, pure and simple.

Come walk a day in our shoes over here, then try to tell me about the faults of ALPA. Our in-house union (NPA) was a disaster, a folly of management, incompetent and disorganized to the core. All of that has changed now that ALPA is here.

But it looks like your vitriol goes beyond ALPA. You are still bitter because you lost the presidential election. We now have a PRO-LABOR president in the oval office. What's your problem with that? Do you understand the far reaching ramifications of what that means to organized labor?

But let's see...your avatar says it all. Go back to watering your flowers tulip, and hope your audition to the Village People arrives; because its plain as day to see that you are no trade unionist. Oh, and if you come up with a better union than ALPA, do let us know.

Very good points, and I agree.

However, when are you guys going to get serious about that strike vote? And are you guys working that mediator into releasing you to self help?

Judging by their actions, sounds like a strike is the only language that management understands.