SWAPA TA failure just cost me $1,200 per month

[PropPiedmont]

If you're a reserve FO you just missed out on a big paycut.

 

[C-21Pilot]

Shearedshaft,

If the company comes back with less of a raise and no retro do you think the new TA will pass ?

I think if SWA comes back with any less of a raise and no retro, it will change the vote from 51/49 no, to 90/10 no.

That is the beauty of voting down this TA, even though by a small margin. If the company comes back something worse, it will fail again.

 

[shearedshaft]

Then what? Vote no twice and we still don't have code share protection or raises. Are you going to take a job action?

The company doesn't care if you keep voting no. This last no vote saved Gary Kelly $396 million over 2.5 years. Why would he be quaking in his boots if we put it off once again?

 

[C-21Pilot]

I'll take a job action, will you ?

 

[328dude]

Then what? Vote no twice and we still don't have code share protection or raises. Are you going to take a job action?

The company doesn't care if you keep voting no. This last no vote saved Gary Kelly $396 million over 2.5 years. Why would he be quaking in his boots if we put it off once again?

You bet I would vote no again. So you make an extra $1200 a month, but the lance guys lose what? 30/40% yearly pay? So shaft others as long as you get yours right?

Typical, I got mine attitude, especially for a DAL guy.

 

[scoreboardII]

Are you going to take a job action?

Yes.

The majority have spoken, you must respect and agree to participate with the will of that majority.

Now, are you going to cross that line?

 

[jehtplane]

I am a senior FO at SWA and my pay rate was scheduled to go from $108 to $121 after the TA (from about $120/hour to $135/hr).

I fly 120 trips per month, so the TA failure cost me $1,200 per month. Every month.

Would I write a check for $1,200 per month to keep ELITT the same? Nope. How about to let lance captains continue to take senior FO lines and give them to junior FOs? Nope.

This is the interesting part: I've asked every FO I've come in contact with in the last week what they thought their gross pay raise was going to be if the TA passed. Not one had an answer.

Luckily, SWA just announced 9% lower revenues for last month, so I'm sure our pay raises will be even better (not) when we go back to the table.

You guys don't know a good thing when it's looking you in the eye.

I will tell you what, I will trade you my unemployment check for your $108.00 dollars an hour. Talk about someone that does not see the big picture. Me Me Me Me Me!

 

[flyingitalian]

Current side letter requires the company to grow in order to code share. It also requires one leg on SWA in order to code share. The new code share released the company from both of these requirements.

Im a senior FO too my brother and I loved the new pay rates. I voted no however because my pay is TFP x trips flown. I make A LOT of money from extra fly, vja etc. There is no way Im going to vote to be tied to an open time system that does not exist, and is not tested. Want to change it and make it less expensive for the company....great ... bing it on, but lets test it first and give me an implementation plan.

 

[shearedshaft]

Current side letter requires the company to grow in order to code share.

Could you quote where it says they are "required" to grow? And maybe the part where it says what happens if they don't?

Im a senior FO too my brother and I loved the new pay rates. I voted no however because my pay is TFP x trips flown. I make A LOT of money from extra fly, vja etc. There is no way Im going to vote to be tied to an open time system that does not exist, and is not tested. Want to change it and make it less expensive for the company....great ... bing it on, but lets test it first and give me an implementation plan.

So you are willing to write a check for $1,000 or $1,100 per month (every month) because you're scared that a new system that has multiple open time closings per day, and allows true voluntary JA hasn't been tested?

It's too bad you loved the new pay rates, they're gone.

 

[Homer Jay]

Could you quote where it says they are "required" to grow? And maybe the part where it says what happens if they don't?





So you are willing to write a check for $1,000 or $1,100 per month (every month) because you're scared that a new system that has multiple open time closings per day, and allows true voluntary JA hasn't been tested?

It's too bad you loved the new pay rates, they're gone.

I'm willing to bet this is your first airline gig. Pay rates are nice, but work rules, scheduling issues, and scope are always the most important!

 

[shearedshaft]

I'm willing to bet this is your first airline gig. Pay rates are nice, but work rules, scheduling issues, and scope are always the most important!

Except in this contract, the open time was going to be a ton more flexible, the drawdown of the lance program was going to let me be a captain longer and an FO shorter, ELITT wouldn't have continued to get pounded by lances and first year FOs, so ELITT would have actually started working on me and to top it off, there was no domestic code share allowed.

Where was the problem?

 

[relief tube]

Perfect example of someone who absolutely does not see the big picture.

he doesn't have time to see the big picture....he's too busy flying all the time.

"Go home and take care of your kids before they rob me in 10 years"

 

[shearedshaft]

I see the big picture, and I fully understand both the TA and the side letters. From the sounds of you guys, you believed the hype and gave up all our raises and our codeshare protection.

This is because you don't understand ELITT and the damage that Lances do to your schedule flexibility, you don't understand the damage to your schedule flexibility first year guys do, and you haven't read word-by-word the code share restrictions in the new TA and compared them to the nonsense in SL32.

The new open time would have allowed us to actually bid on VJA instead of crossing our fingers, open time would have filtered direct to pilots instead of being slid to "favorite son" tournament players at the last minute.

It wouldn't have made a difference to the lance giveaways, since the top 3.2% will still get the turn lines--there aren't that many turn lines. Ask a junior lance if they're getting turns. Nope, the junior lance is using ELITT and TTGA and screwing up the net zero.

I can't understand why you guys don't want protection from RJs, I've heard several different times that Republic has been in talks with SWA. But we voted to allow RJs, so have fun, at least we didn't get raises to go along with our codeshare loss.

 

[PropPiedmont]

Just got the memo. Southwest Airlines ceases operations due to their TA being rejected on the first go around.

Seriously, has anyone ever bought a car or a house? Who takes the first offer?

 

[Herkdrv]

Wow, you sound like a UAL pilot circa 2000: "Give me my raises... I don't care about the outsourcing Section 1 allows." Your biggest pay raise will come when SWA grows its own fleet (instead of Volaris & WestJet) and you upgrade to Captain. Then you'll get your lousy $1200 a month and then some.

Spot on! You know it always amazes me that as pilots, we are constantly learning form others mistakes as well as our own. How many countless of hours have you spent on the sim, or reading about mishaps in order to NOT repeat the same mistakes others have. And yet when it comes to contract negotiations how many times times have we repeated the same mistakes?

Nice job whining about the money you potentially lost when so many are out on the street! Karma is a bitch. Always remember that. You may not realize it now, but we have done you a huge favor voting this turd of a contract down. The sad part is you will have forgotten all about it in the future, and once again attempt to screw everything that we have worked so hard for for a few extra bucks. With friends like you who the hell needs enemies!

Herk



P.S. Can't wait till you upgrade and I get to help you calculate what 5% of the tip is on our heavily discounted 1-2-3 50% discount of the food bill.