ASA pilot says Long Commutes not Fatiguing

[Uncle Bunkle]

Are you f-ing kidding me? Who is this guy at ASA who claims that a 3.5 hour commute is more relaxing than a 30 minute drive?

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090524/ARTICLES/905241012/1002?Title=Pilot-Long-commutes-should-not-lead-to-fatigue
Long air commutes for pilots before flights are not a safety problem and can in fact be more restful than auto commutes, an Atlantic Southeast Airlines pilot and union representative said in an interview this week.

"Capt. Tom Zerbarini is an officer with the Air Line Pilots Association and an eight-year pilot with ASA, one of two regional carriers to operate at Gainesville Regional Airport...But Zerbarini told The Sun that commutes should not lead to fatigue.

He said pilots will catch morning flights, resting on the flight, to go on afternoon duty or will fly in the day before for morning duty."
Zerbarini said his experiences with air commuting were more relaxing than his current drive in Atlanta. He spent a number of years commuting from Boston to Dallas.

"I had 3 1/2 hours to rest, read and relax and then duty in for the next day," he said. "It's more stressful to drive."

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

Oh, forgot about this:
"He said ASA captains make less than average for regional airline captains so that first officers can earn more than the average for their level."

I still can't believe he's telling the newspaper that long commutes do not cause fatigue, and are in fact easier than a 30-minute drive! And he's one of your Union reps? Sounds more like a mgt. shill.

 

[sweptback]

ASA has traditionally kept FO payrates at 60% of captain rates. All airlines should do this -- it's pretty bad that 90% of the regionals don't. ASA's FO payrates as a result are close to industry-leading, captain payrates are in the upper-third.

And yes, the pilots agreed to it by voting in the contract. Overwhelmingly I do believe.

 

[CaribPilot]

This guy is obviously waaaaaaaaay off base.

 

[PCL_128]

I still can't believe he's telling the newspaper that long commutes do not cause fatigue, and are in fact easier than a 30-minute drive! And he's one of your Union reps? Sounds more like a mgt. shill.

Tom is hardly a management shill. He's actually a pretty hard-core trade-unionist kind of guy. I do disagree with his statements here, though. I suspect that he's trying to head off any attempts by the government to regulate our commuting abilities, but that's just a guess. It's also possible that he's just misquoted. Check with him before throwing him under the bus.

 

[Crash Pad]

Do you still want to be able to commute?

I don't commute but some day I might want to... So with that in mind I suggest if a paper asks you something you say something like "commuting is the most relaxing way to get to work. I'm more rested than most doctors I know."

Unless of course you want to see someone "fix the commuting problem". I suppose it would move you up a few spots on the list but who really wants to live in Newark.

 

[crj567]

This guy is one of the ALPA reps, I think.... I don't know very much about him, but probably he was asked these questions in some way that would make him look bad no matter what he said....

All the more resaon to never talk to the press!

 

[Charty]

I have never had trouble driving to work, my car is always right where I left it. I dont have to worry about how many flights I will get bumped from because they are oversold and a mainline guy listed for the JS the day before and shows up 5 minutes prior to departure.

 

[relief tube]

not everyone can fall asleep on planes. I can't sleep sitting upright at all.
not everyone has a short commute. Not everyone has a one leg commute. Not everyone has less than 2 hour time zone changes between where they live and where they work. And MANY have a stressful commute, wondering if they'll get on and if they'll have to run a half mile to the other side of the airport for another flight.

All the above lead to it being a very tiring event. That ASA p-rick simply thinks that because his commute is easy, then all commutes must be easy.

Blanket statements. What a moron.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

You guys really need to read between the lines on what Tom is doing. Do you want him helping you or not?

 

[planedriver]

I can guarantee you that the government is going to try to go after and regulate commuting. I don't know about you but there are very few cities in which any of the airlines operate hubs that I would want to live in. I live where I want to live and I don't want that to change because of this accident. Everyone needs to pick up the same rhetoric as this guy. Commuting is VERY relaxing!

 

[planedriver]

not everyone can fall asleep on planes. I can't sleep sitting upright at all.
not everyone has a short commute. Not everyone has a one leg commute. Not everyone has less than 2 hour time zone changes between where they live and where they work. And MANY have a stressful commute, wondering if they'll get on and if they'll have to run a half mile to the other side of the airport for another flight.

All the above lead to it being a very tiring event. That ASA p-rick simply thinks that because his commute is easy, then all commutes must be easy.

Blanket statements. What a moron.

Do you commute? If you do, I'm guessing it is because you don't want to move to and live in your hub city. Well, keep talking like this and that is exactly what you are going to have to do after the government is done "fixing the commuting problem". Either that or I guess you could just quit your job and start working for a local truck driving company.

 

[DoinTime]

I can guarantee you that the government is going to try to go after and regulate commuting. I don't know about you but there are very few cities in which any of the airlines operate hubs that I would want to live in. I live where I want to live and I don't want that to change because of this accident. Everyone needs to pick up the same rhetoric as this guy. Commuting is VERY relaxing!

You can bet that the FAA is going regulate commuting when they get around to updating duty time regs. I would expect that time spent commuting (not local in nature) will be added to your duty day. If you have a short duty day scheduled its not a big deal to commute on the front end of it but don't expect to start your commute six hours prior to a 14 hour duty day.

If pilots (and pilot Unions) want to get serious about updating the seriously antiquated FAA flight and duty time regs we cannot bury our heads in the sand on such critical fatigue drivers such as commuting. Doing so supports the kind of hypocrisy that waters down and makes our positions transparent and irrelevant. Commuting is a privilege....not a right.

 

[LearLove]

You guys really need to read between the lines on what Tom is doing. Do you want him helping you or not?

So it is OK to lie if it is helping your agenda?

I say tell the truth even if it does not help your cause. I hope he (this 8 year ASA capt) is being miss quoted. I hope he is just speaking for himself and the reporter is doing his own thing.

Maybe this asa guy has a good commute but you can't imply that for all. Commuting is stressful you can't deny that. I had an easy commute between PHL and DCA for 2.5 years and it wore on me. It made such a bad impression that 8 months ago when I got booted from PHL to CLT I moved rather than commute.

Either the reporter needs to be corrected or this asa guy needs to be smacked with an integrity check.

-------

Along the line of commuting:

Just my opinion:

If you decide to live in East Dicksmoke Montana and take a job with an airline based in DFW or ATL then man up and make a commute that allows you to sign in rested. It is called taking responsibility for your actions.

on the other hand....

You get a job based where you live or move to your base and your airline management starts playing crew base musical chairs every 6 months as they move flying around (thus screwing the junior guys base wise) then that is another story.

Or along the same lines they bump you to a base you can't afford, for example you live and are based in CVG and you get moved to LGA on a 30K/year FO salary then again another story.

Does the 2 examples above mean it is ok not to take responsibility for you (forced) commute? I guess that is up to each pilot to decide.

We cannot be expected to move every 2 years or live where we cant afford safe shelter or even food.

 

[WWEfan]

Sounds to me like TZ is basing his opinion on his own experience and not trying to speak for anyone else. Of course his main agenda is to deflect all this attention on commuting by the press, FAA, NTSB, etc. I'm quite positive no commuter wants any type of government involvement when it comes to restricting his/her ride to/from work.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Have you driven in ATL traffic? I think 2+ hour commute is WAAAAAY more "relaxing" than a 1 hour drive in this hellhole of traffic. I'm about ready to strangle puppies when I drive that much here.

That is partly what he is saying

 

[Max Q]

I would enjoy watching ASA try to find parking spots for more local, non-commuters.

 

[EatinRamen]

I used to drive 1.5 hrs to commute to work in TPA. Now I sit for 2 hours in the back of the plane when I commute to my new base. I wholly agree that I am more rested sitting in the back of the plane.

Yes, I am one of those people who can sleep on the plane. So if I need a nap to keep me fresh I have the option to do so on a plane. Not so when I was driving. If anything, I would be more stressed out dealing with stupid drivers on I4.

Some of you jerks need to realize that our commuting priveledges may be at risk, and we need to make sure that regulators and the general public aren't fed fuel to spark the fire against us doing so.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Have you driven in ATL traffic? I think 2+ hour commute is WAAAAAY more "relaxing" than a 1 hour drive in this hellhole of traffic. I'm about ready to strangle puppies when I drive that much here.

Haha! Oh so true.... some ghetto chick talking on her cell phone in the fast lane doing 55 mph all the way around 285.

It's pretty obvious that this ASA guy was trying to defend commuters, which I think is pretty smart. There are much bigger bridges we need to cross before regulating commuting- like realistic rest regulations and improving airline training and hiring requirements. That being said, I half expect the government to take the easy way out and do this thereby screwing the rich overpaid pilots. ( of course copilots don't matter- they don't fly the airplane).

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

I can guarantee you that the government is going to try to go after and regulate commuting. I don't know about you but there are very few cities in which any of the airlines operate hubs that I would want to live in. I live where I want to live and I don't want that to change because of this accident. Everyone needs to pick up the same rhetoric as this guy. Commuting is VERY relaxing!

They do and the airline industry will shut down....

 

[ASACAPT]

I have commuted for 9 years from Florida to Atlanta. If you do it responsibly, as I have, going up the night before for early duty inn's, it can be done safely. I don't think that we can judge all commuters as irresponsible because we have a few bad apples. It is time for everybody to take a deep breath.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Willing to bet his statements were taken out of context.....

 

[HOMER D POE]

you can't deny that commuting due to fatigue was a causal factor in this crash. you can deny it but you can't dismiss it. i know a guy that lives in the JFK crew room for five days at a time. this is appalling. He is not alone. this is the dirty little secret, not low pay, but they're related

 

[lineflyer1]

Lets see,

What I hear is driving your car can be as stressful and tiring as commuting.

Yep, I get good rest when I ride the jumpseat.

It's my right to make my life better by commuting all night, to work and kill myself and 50 others because I'm too fatigued to watch an airspeed indicator.

Ok.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Isn't Tom Z an ALPA national officer? He is saying what he's supposed to say, toeing the ALPA party line. Move along, nothing to see here...

 

[blesko]

Though I agree that someone needed to say that commuting is fine and tell congress to stuff it, yadda yadda, I dont think I've seen TZ fly a month after month of line flying like the rest of us (lately), so really, thems that dont on a regular basis might not be the voice of the rest of us?

Aren't we really supposed to be professionals? How about travel surgeons that staff hospitals when regular doctors are on vacation and commute in the same day and do surgery, Yes, that does happen. Should we look into them too?

We need our leaders not to take selfish standpoints, get a GROUP together and speak for the masses. What he should have said is at my airline, XX percent of pilots commute and a poll says these results........its the all about me mentality anymore....isn't the "union" about a group not individuality? just curious

 

[wms]

I'm a commuter and am no more tired at the end of the day when I commute in than if I have an early duty-in and stayed up too late watching TV in the hotel.

How many of us have short nights or not enough sleep the night before our trip. Commuter or not, you've stayed out too late with some friends, or stayed up late with sick kids or been out on a date with the wife or just couldn't get to sleep for whatever reason. But we continue to fly the trip because most of us work for airlines that discipline you for doing the right thing by asking to get pulled off the trip for fatigue.

Whatever the reason might be for not having enough rest before a trip, it's not the first 8 hours that are hard. It's the 12th or the 15th or 16th. Even if you are well-rested when you come to work, those days are hard and unsafe. The first problem with fatigue is overlooking small details, and the small details have led to big accidents. Commuting is not the problem. The problem is long duty days with no time to catch up, followed and preceded by short nights, whether at home or in the hotel.

Look at the accidents that are related to this and they didn't happen early in the duty day. They happened at the end of the day or on a backside-of-the-clock trip that was out of sync with the rest of the pilot's schedule.

It's not a commuting issue, it's a "the way the airlines schedule issue". The airlines know this and are going to do anything they can to keep the FAA from addressing flight crew scheduling and fatigue issues.

It's in our best interest to keep this in perspective.

 

[wms]

Maybe they should take the TVs out of crewmembers' hotel rooms, do room-checks the night before to make sure they're in bed, force them to live in the neighborhood where they are based so they don't drive more than an hour to work, etc. Make sure the kids don't come into the room at night and wake them. make sure the wife doesn't get sick and all other imaginable things that might keep someone from getting a good rest before work. If you fly red-eyes, you can't have a day job, you can't cut the grass, wash the car or run errands during the day, etc. Like I said, the issue isn't commuting.

 

[ASABound]

Commuting wasnt the problem in the Colgan Accident. The problem was a capt who should have never been in the lieft seat to begin with, and a co pilot who wasnt assertive.

 

[crj567]

Haha! Oh so true.... some ghetto chick talking on her cell phone in the fast lane doing 55 mph all the way around 285.
.

Yep- ATL is not a good place to drive. Here, people really do try and hit you. They really do get in the fast lane and drive 40 mph, while weaving thru three lanes of traffic.

I don't recommend driving around this place any more than possible. Other cities have bad traffic, but ATL has bad traffic with hate for whitey, press-on-nails and a bad weave! You best watch yo-self around here!