WSK on Pilot Banter, Training Records, & Crew Rest / Commuting

[imacdog]

I'm not a big fan of partial automation for this reason alone. Give me FULL autopilot WITH autothrottles, or turn ALL of it off. None of this "I have to fly part of the plane but not the other part" nonsense... At AirTran in high winds or tricky approaches, once everything was stable, checklists were done, and I could concentrate, ALL the automation came off in the real world. Still does today. There's no replacement for a good pilot's stick and rudder skills and good judgment.

So you're saying you always hand-flew your CRJ 100% of the time?

 

[imacdog]

Come on folks...commuting has to be done responsibly...

Commuting by the FO did not cause this crash - a loss of airspeed awareness on the flying pilot's part, and completely botched stall recovery (again, the flying pilot) is what put this plane into the ground.

 

[Lear70]

So you're saying you always hand-flew your CRJ 100% of the time?

Let's look at the key words in that sentence again.

At AirTran in high winds or tricky approaches, once everything was stable, checklists were done, and I could concentrate, ALL the automation came off in the real world. Still does today.

Make more sense now that I've highlighted the part critical for proper understanding of the statement?

Yes, I did the same thing at PCL. Yes, I did the same thing on the 727. Yes, I still do.

 

[imacdog]

Let's look at the key words in that sentence again.

Actually I was more interested in this sentence:

I'm not a big fan of partial automation for this reason alone.

How many thousands upons thousands of flights are completed safely with partial automation every day?

 

[Lear70]

How many thousands upons thousands of flights are completed safely with partial automation every day?

There have been numerous incidents (read near-accidents) caused by partial automation than you know... I wish unions would publish more of the ASAP and FOQA data.

I watched a crew almost crash a 717 in PHF trying to let the automation land in crappy weather with high gusty winds, they went around and tried the approach 3 times before they landed it, and STILL came within inches of dragging the wingtip. We had just landed hours before in WORSE winds without a problem... Challenging? Yes. Close to causing an accident like they did? No way.

Automation is one of the things that's making aviation safer, but it's also creating pi$$-poor stick and rudder pilots that can't hack it when the rubber meets the road. If a pilots doesn't think they can (and should) fly the airplane better than the automation when things are dicey, maybe they should find a different line of work?

 

[COpilot]

Question, at what time did this trip paring begin? Ok so, we know they were awake in the middle of the night; but, before actully reporting did they have time to grab some power naps?

 

[WayBack]

Question, at what time did this trip paring begin? Ok so, we know they were awake in the middle of the night; but, before actully reporting did they have time to grab some power naps?

I read somewhere it was a nooner....but you know the media and their inability to report facts.

 

[jimcav]

There have been numerous incidents (read near-accidents) caused by partial automation than you know... I wish unions would publish more of the ASAP and FOQA data.

I watched a crew almost crash a 717 in PHF trying to let the automation land in crappy weather with high gusty winds, they went around and tried the approach 3 times before they landed it, and STILL came within inches of dragging the wingtip. We had just landed hours before in WORSE winds without a problem... Challenging? Yes. Close to causing an accident like they did? No way.

Automation is one of the things that's making aviation safer, but it's also creating pi$$-poor stick and rudder pilots that can't hack it when the rubber meets the road. If a pilots doesn't think they can (and should) fly the airplane better than the automation when things are dicey, maybe they should find a different line of work?

Well said. There is a whole new generation of magenta line dependants who fly like s**t!

 

[imacdog]

Sounds like an awful deficiency in your training department, 70. Hopefully your guys will learn how to hand-fly better.

 

[Lear70]

Sounds like an awful deficiency in your training department, 70. Hopefully your guys will learn how to hand-fly better.

It's not just one place, it's been 3 that I've flown at, and 2 others that I've spoken to CIRP and Training Department ALPA volunteers. The data is disturbing...

Like JimCav said, I've heard to them referred to as "children of the magenta" from more than one check airman and not in a nice way...