Age 65 Stinks

[coogebeachhotel]

Can not believe how badly this ruling has affected everyone.

Vent over

 

[Metro752]

Please hold the line, we are routing you to the first available ALPA apologist.

 

[Old School 737]

Can not believe how badly this ruling has affected everyone.

Vent over

Unless you are age 59.5 + and at Alaska!!!

 

[Superpilot92]

Age 65 is a huge setback for our industry. If that hadnt changed you likely wouldnt be seeing much if any furloughs and most would be hiring.

In the meantime you have some that want to "fly till they die"!!

 

[Raoul Duke]

I think it should be pushed out to 70 just so we can really hear some complaining.

 

[another cfii]

I think age 65 is just like scope, the more we thumb our chests, saying "no more!", the next thing you know, you're flying with a grandpa old enough to be your FA.

 

[instructordude]

Age discrimination sucks even worse.

 

[Flopgut]

My observations tell me we haven't even seen the worst of this change yet. Many old guys I see at work have used this to sustain and enhance a pretty lavish lifestyle, while some furloughs are indigent. As this plays out further, we're all going to learn that too many of the guys going past 60 won't be ready to retire because their lifestyles have always been unsustainable. And we're going to see the furloughed return and we won't even be able to recognize them.

I'm right in the middle seniority wise. I spend time with both extremes, the windfallers and the marginalized. Y'all know the proverbial picture package some guys fly with? Some of those stand out in my mind. Invariably, the old MFer has got a Harley, boat, guns, planes, hot rods, etc, etc. You name it. My furloughed friends and acquaintenaces? They don't have too many pictures. Usually at least one of the family. Everybody is trying to smile but you can tell it isn't easy for the parents. I can't believe we're all doing the same job. I can't believe the transfer of wealth Prater has orchestrated.

We have to fix this guys.

 

[Flopgut]

Age discrimination sucks even worse.

65 has increased age discrimination. And it will continue to make it much worse.

 

[The Prussian]

Cry on somebody else's shoulder. Age 65 almost passed twice in the 90's, and once again around 2004. If it had, we'd be having movement right now, even in the midst of the worst economic crisis in decades. You brought the perfect storm on yourselves...timing is everything--enjoy it!

 

[Flopgut]

Negative Prussian. We would be having movement right now if your generation were equal to of even a fraction of the consideration you insist you are.

There are better answers out there than 65. Nothing has been gained with it.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

Age discrimination sucks even worse.

Instructordude,

So please explain to us how Age 65 is not age discrimination where Age 60 was Age discrimination.

Standing by for your reasoning.

AA767AV8TOR

P.S. Make no mistake, AGE 65 is the worst thing to hit the industry since B Scale. It also makes us a less safer industry, both to ourselves (longer exposure to high altitude radiation) and to our passengers.

P.S.S Thanks again everyday to SWAPA and ALPA for all you do for the industry and our lifestyles.

 

[eaglesview]

Is it 65, when did that happen??? Is that new or is 18month old news. Get over it and move on.

 

[Flopgut]

Furloughs are losing their first/only homes so that the over 60 can keep their second/motor homes. The reality is this is going to get worse.

Word of caution for those who's only advice is "get over it" or "timing is everything" or who otherwise support the change: You are never going to be proud of doing this to another pilot. Back off on your tenor now and at least start to consider how you're going to help other pilots (real tough for some of you I know). The embarrasment this is going to bring on you will overwhelm whatever credibility you've earned in your career.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

I think I can fly safely into my 70s with my health, I think there should be a movement for an age limit between 65-70! There should be a good mixture of pilots with experience to pass on to the backpack, skateboarding, guitar toting generation of pilots...

 

[semperfido]

I think I can fly safely into my 70s with my health, I think there should be a movement for an age limit between 65-70! There should be a good mixture of pilots with experience to pass on to the backpack, skateboarding, guitar toting generation of pilots...

... believe it or not- I saw a pilot with a cane a couple weeks ago, and he was on a trip. both ends of the spectrum are getting fuzzy.

 

[avbug]

Same old tired song. Your sense of entitlement. You wan to live and die by seniority, but feel you're entitled to what those more senior than you have.

A pilot can legally work until 65...get over it. It's his job, his seniority, his retirement. Not yours. You can work until you're 65, too. You're not there yet...he is. You're not entitled to his money, or his job. If this is too much for you to fathom, find another line of work.

 

[fam62c]

This situation isn't unique to the airline industry. As people nearing retirement age have seen the values of their homes and retirement savings fall sharply they have decided not to retire and to keep working. Lot's of people in many industries will be holding on to jobs into their late 60's and 70's which means that fewer jobs will be available to people who are either out of work or entering the work force for the first time. Couple this with a recession where companies are cutting jobs left and right and you have mass unemployment/underemployment.

I don't know how long this will last but for now we will be living in an era of severely reduced expectations for many and a sharp division between those who have jobs and those who don't. The people without decent jobs (or jobs at all) will essentially be living in a different world from those who do.

This is going to mean that everything is going to happen later for many people. College grads may be in their mid to late 20's or early 30's before they get their first good job and many people who lost their jobs in this recession/depression may be starting over from scratch in their 40's and 50's after being out of work for long periods of time and losing everything; this will force them to work into their 70's.

Many economists were predicting a large labor shortage in the USA as the baby boom generation retired and this may still happen, but it will be farther in the future than anyone thought. It's a bummer and we can only hope that things get better before it's too late for many people.

Times are tough, it's one thing to lose a flying job when there are other jobs in other industries available but many people are finding out that in addition to very few flying jobs being available (and more pilots getting terminated all the time) there are very few jobs in other industries available except for people with very specific qualifications and previous experience. Being a highly experienced commercial pilot has little or no value outside of aviation.

 

[instructordude]

Age 65 gets you to Social Security and Medicare.

I feel blessed knowing our older/senior pilots, many who have lost it all (pensions), have an extra five years to make it work. God Bless Prater!

 

[coogebeachhotel]

I think I can fly safely into my 70s with my health, I think there should be a movement for an age limit between 65-70! There should be a good mixture of pilots with experience to pass on to the backpack, skateboarding, guitar toting generation of pilots...

And your pleasant personality

 

[fob727]

Same old tired song. Your sense of entitlement. You wan to live and die by seniority, but feel you're entitled to what those more senior than you have.

A pilot can legally work until 65...get over it. It's his job, his seniority, his retirement. Not yours. You can work until you're 65, too. You're not there yet...he is. You're not entitled to his money, or his job. If this is too much for you to fathom, find another line of work.

good post

 

[gutshotdraw]

Age 65 gets you to Social Security and Medicare.

I feel blessed knowing our older/senior pilots, many who have lost it all (pensions), have an extra five years to make it work. God Bless Prater!

Actually, no it doesn't. Anyone born after 1960 will have to reach 67 before they can receive full Social Security. A report issued yesterday indicates SS and Medicare are going broke even faster than first thought (gee, there's a shock). In addition to tax increases, Congress will likely raise the SS eligibility age even higher to slow the tide of failure of the biggest Ponzi scheme in history.

This is in NO WAY and endorsement of the regulatory change to age 65.

BTW instructortool, I thought you were doing us all a favor and getting out of aviation........

 

[Flopgut]

Same old tired song. Your sense of entitlement. You wan to live and die by seniority, but feel you're entitled to what those more senior than you have.

A pilot can legally work until 65...get over it. It's his job, his seniority, his retirement. Not yours. You can work until you're 65, too. You're not there yet...he is. You're not entitled to his money, or his job. If this is too much for you to fathom, find another line of work.

You've got the a$$hole routine nailed down. Perfect, indeed. However, there's more to this you are clueless about.

Not one of us in this profession is going to make a fortune. I mean, in real terms there isn't much difference between retiring with $1 million vs. $2million. We're all going to reach an age where the dollars don't matter. Being well off in this environment is not going to be all it's cracked up to be. Before long we're going to see opinions change on this issue across the board. Especially in this profesion, where the generational theft is magnified by seniority. Those of you who delight in knowing that working to 65 is denying another a chance more than you actually need to work are going to find yourself wishing you had acted more admirably.

I know a lot of real good guys who are scabs. Most of them would give back every dollar they ever made if they could get that stink off of them. You'll be the same way Avbug. That's if you were ever worth a squirt of pi$$ to begin with.

 

[eaglesview]

The truth is I would rather have my family in the back of an airliner being piloted by an over 60 guy than one of these 22 year old, green behind the ears "under 60" pilots any day of the week. You need look no further than the Hudson and BUF. Harsh but true.

 

[GuinessGuy]

You are looking at the extreme........try doing a redeye, or anything past 8pm with someone 58-65.......dangerous............

 

[Superpilot92]

fly till you die geezers

 

[eaglesview]

You are looking at the extreme........try doing a redeye, or anything past 8pm with someone 58-65.......dangerous............

Well then according to your math every international trip we fly, which of course invovles at least one redeye is "dangerous." Are you serious, this is really what you think?? Sorry I would still rather have the over 60 guy than the 22 year old know nothing.

 

[Hamburger]

The truth is I would rather have my family in the back of an airliner being piloted by an over 60 guy than one of these 22 year old, green behind the ears "under 60" pilots any day of the week.

You're saying alot about yourself with this statement.
When you were 22, you couldn't handle being a pilot? Were you flying then? You wouldn't have trusted yourself giving your own family a ride? Maybe you came to the game later in life.

I'd say most of us felt up to the task.

You need look no further than the Hudson and BUF. Harsh but true.

Actually you do need to look further. Do some research into the history of commercial airline accidents and let us know how many people 22-year olds have killed compared to 'seasoned' guys.

 

[eaglesview]

You're saying alot about yourself with this statement.
When you were 22, you couldn't handle being a pilot? Were you flying then? You wouldn't have trusted yourself giving your own family a ride? Maybe you came to the game later in life.

I'd say most of us felt up to the task.

There is no doubt in my mind I am safer now than I was at 22. Anyone (of age) who thinks differently is kidding themselves.

 

[Sandhawk]

The truth is I would rather have my family in the back of an airliner being piloted by an over 60 guy than one of these 22 year old, green behind the ears "under 60" pilots any day of the week. You need look no further than the Hudson and BUF. Harsh but true.

Yeah, maybe if Sully wasn't an old senile geezer, he would've pushed the thrust levers up to TOGA and landed safely at any one of the Major NY Metro airports.

Maybe his "experienced" FO with 35 hours in type should've caught it........

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