DAL Parking 40 to 50 jets

[FBN0223]

So we are parking 40-50 jets this year. Yes, we knew this. Not trying to be negative just real. How could this not lead to furloughs at an airline with almost zero attrition and that has yet to capitalize on many efficiencies that would streamline our route system?

There has to be more to avoiding furloughs than just the arrival of more B777s and a furlough clause. Anyone have any good staffing data? and what the effect of parking these aircraft will do to this year's staffing requirements?

 

[twepilot]

i had a fed on my JS a few weeks ago and he said that there was to be expected a furlough of approx 3000 guys from the combined list. He was an early retirement from DL before getting on with the FAA.

RV

 

[ACL65PILOT]

3000? Yeah right. That is 25% of the list.

Worst case I can see 1000.

 

[maxblast72]

What would the staffing level be for the 747-200F's? 30 pilots per aircraft?

Also, Delta predicting 2009 mainline ASM's to be down 6-8% year over year. And the breakdown of those cuts are 10-12% domestic and 5-7% international. So does Delta just fly the pilots less per month to prevent the training cost of multiple bumps if furloughs/downgrades were to occur?

 

[lookin4better]

What is DL parking? The NW Cargo 747's in ANC?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The 742 op is 296~300 pilots. In effect a zero sum with the DAL staffing model.

We will be parking the 9 30 and 40 series.
Probably the 757 series 5500 if the rumors are true
They want to park the 767-300 domestic birds sometime in the future. (21)
Looking at parking 88 in a one for one with the 90. Route guys want it to be growth, but flt ops says one for one, so the jury is out on this one. I bet they will be growth.
I know of four ER's that are at VCV.
Of the jets at VCV most of the 757's and ER's that are there will be coming back when the economy improves. That will probably lead to a zero sum on the 757's.

Also with hubs everywhere, our netting effect on cities will require smaller aircraft. Not good for the paycheck. Long term we will probably get rid of one North and One South hub, or just make them RJ meccas. (DTW might be this sooner rather than later)

 

[lookin4better]

Sad to hear about the RJ mecca possibility.. I guess some boys will be happy at Shuttle America.

 

[dispatchguy]

I heard the B742F freighter op is gone at the end of the year.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

3000? Yeah right. That is 25% of the list.

Worst case I can see 1000.

So which is it? Overstaffed?...or worst case 1,000 furloughs?

Let me guess... DL/NW mgt will be gleefully spitting out whatever pilots want to hear, until Summer flying is over (preventing any summertime "shenanigans,") THEN the hammer will fall!

(Like the full amount of ANC flying will just ALL end at ONCE on 12-31 then everyone starts training AT ONCE....RIGHT. Strange this announcement was made AFTER the APA came out for NW, and NONE of the ANC people were affected in it). Yeeah

 

[Minimaniac]

Sad to hear about the RJ mecca possibility.. I guess some boys will be happy at Shuttle America.

No growth news in these parts...

I could see a variety of DAL Rj's moving out of ATL and into some of these "RJ Meccas", but I don't forsee anyone doing Delta Connection flying benefiting from this at all, unless you consider your third base closure/displacement in 4 years a benefit.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

So which is it? Overstaffed?...or worst case 1,000 furloughs?

Let me guess... DL/NW mgt will be gleefully spitting out whatever pilots want to hear, until Summer flying is over (preventing any summertime "shenanigans,") THEN the hammer will fall!

(Like the full amount of ANC flying will just ALL end at ONCE on 12-31 then everyone starts training AT ONCE....RIGHT. Strange this announcement was made AFTER the APA came out for NW, and NONE of the ANC people were affected in it). Yeeah

APAs are very frequent at NWA... There will be more...you will see the ANC pulldown in the coming APA's. Your lack of knowledge yet having your nose so far in things is astounding.

 

[jester757]

i had a fed on my JS a few weeks ago and he said that there was to be expected a furlough of approx 3000 guys from the combined list. He was an early retirement from DL before getting on with the FAA.

RV

Like a Fed knows jack sh!t...

Parking airplanes prior to their HMVs is the plan for now. They can be pulled out and back in flying status in 30 days if needed. I have heard numbers, from the source, that DAL would be 1300 fat this winter and only 130 fat in the spring. A short term furlough doesn't make financial sense. Add in the flow to compass...what a mess.

I have heard lots of chatter about the NWA pilots frozen retirement however. Seems it still costs 27 plus million to managae, fund, distribute, etc. that thing a year. There have been inquires in how to do away with it... if they look like they will some how be able to you will see NWA senior pilots head for the door like they did at DAL. IF this happens it would mitigate a large percentage of the over staffing and save DAL an estimated 80 million a year. Crappy thing to do to the NWA senior guys, but when $$ is the end game you know they will try to. Who would stop them? ALPA, HA! Don't forget that the vast majority of the combined list at DAL doesn't have a real retirement of any kind now. Do you think original DAL guys would fight to keep NWA guys frozen retirement in place? I doubt it. If the company offered an additional 1 % to the DCC in exchange for the NWA retirement it would pass without question.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

APAs are very frequent at NWA... There will be more...you will see the ANC pulldown in the coming APA's.

Exactly...Particularly the ones right AFTER the summer flying has been completed in a jovial and compliant manner....

Likely you'll see the DC9s and MD88 staffed times 10 until they decide to tell everyone after 12-31...Oh, BTW...forget all that training...furloughs now

See, I didn't miss a thing, Peanuckle....

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

As far as us being overstaffed or understaffed next year, the jury is still very much out. I'm keeping my logbooks up to date, that's for sure.

As far as the parking of airplanes, that has been hashed through significantly on APC. Right now it seems that the planes in the desert can already account for much of what is supposedly being parked.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Exactly...Particularly the ones right AFTER the summer flying has been completed in a jovial and compliant manner....times 10 until they decide to tell everyone after 12-31...Oh, BTW...forget all that training...furloughs now

Likely you'll see the DC9s and MD88 staffed t

See, I didn't miss a thing, Peanuckle....

Actually you did. The fall flying is already being accounted for in the APAs.

DAL has already accounted for fall flying in it's latest AE, another will be out in the coming months for beyond that.

Try not to make far reaching assumptions about things which you know little of, ok?

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Actually you did. The fall flying is already being accounted for in the APAs.

DAL has already accounted for fall flying in it's latest AE, another will be out in the coming months for beyond that. :smash:

R-I-F

Likely you'll see the DC9s and MD88 staffed times 10 until they decide to tell everyone after 12-31...Oh, BTW...forget all that training...furloughs now

 

[Linedriver]

Actually you did. The fall flying is already being accounted for in the APAs.

DAL has already accounted for fall flying in it's latest AE, another will be out in the coming months for beyond that.

Try not to make far reaching assumptions about things which you know little of, ok?

Is this going to be another displacement or a regular bid to account for some of the new 777's?

 

[lakemead1]

Talked to a lead line check airman last week, and he claims that any AE before Aug. would be a displacement bid. Aug. or after would account for new 90's and 777's.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

So which is it? Overstaffed?...or worst case 1,000 furloughs?

Let me guess... DL/NW mgt will be gleefully spitting out whatever pilots want to hear, until Summer flying is over (preventing any summertime "shenanigans,") THEN the hammer will fall!

(Like the full amount of ANC flying will just ALL end at ONCE on 12-31 then everyone starts training AT ONCE....RIGHT. Strange this announcement was made AFTER the APA came out for NW, and NONE of the ANC people were affected in it). Yeeah

Nope not even close.
Worst case. Cancel the 777 orders, no new jets, Cancel, not reallocate the 787 order. Park all of the 744's and 742's as well as the entire fleet of 9's and most of the 88's.
Not happening. I said worst case. They still need to run an airline. We still need to fly a lot of people.
With local government deep in to DAL's pockets, there is not going to be the right sizing that folks like you dream about.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Steve stated that they would displace as few as possible, not that there would be no displacements.

I think that given how we have seen a yeild reversal and loads drastically improve, you may see a different game plan come about. There is no reason to train people early. Any pull down would be done after the summer months.
If we saw our bottom a few months ago, and we are in fact climbing back out of the hole, the game plan for fall will look a lot different than it does today.
It is going to change, and what they have done is allowed a lot of breathing room to wait to see what this reversal is, a game changer or a bumping along the bottom.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

the right sizing that folks like you dream about.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again.
I want to see hiring...
but I want to see realistic info too. Let's hope that all logic is defied and you are right.

 

[Monster Buck]

Sorry little voice, Delta will not be furloughing. Run a long back to your little jet and make sure their luggage is put nicely into cargo.

 

[Superpilot92]

most of the planes that are getting parked have already been parked (except the -200's). The others will be swapped out with those in storage.

btw, FOX business shows the "stock of the Day" is DAL for beating expectations thus the stock being up +18% today.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Run a long back to your little jet and make sure their luggage is put nicely into cargo.

Monster Buck A/C Flown: MD 88, Saab 340

Aww....projecting hurts still raw from your itty bitty Saab prop days?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again.
I want to see hiring...
but I want to see realistic info too. Let's hope that all logic is defied and you are right.

I have been wrong, but as other have pointed out I am correct more than I am wrong and by a large margin.

This info does not have my personal tilt to it. It is just regurgitated.

There are synergies. If we had not merged, we would probably be in a lot worse position than we are now. Same can be said for NWA. Long term this is the best thing that could happen during a melt down.
Too many other things are going on to expend the money and energy displacing pilots to right size for furlough. If you were here and had any bit of knowledge of the inner working of this merger and what is involved you would be singing a different tune.
DAL is setting the stage quite nicely for the first half of the next decade. I for one am glad I am here.
Noting is perfect, and as I said a year ago, there is going to be pain for the first two years of the merger, but after that, there is no stopping DAL.

I also said, you should see where our real estate guys are looking at. (Gates, etc) Some of those have come true. I said SYD in summer of 09 two and a half years ago. Well? There is other good stuff coming. A lot of it has been delayed, but it will be out just as soon as our leadership knows we are truly in a recovery.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

I have been wrong, but as other have pointed out I am correct more than I am wrong and by a large margin.

This info does not have my personal tilt to it. It is just regurgitated.

There are synergies. If we had not merged, we would probably be in a lot worse position than we are now. Same can be said for NWA. Long term this is the best thing that could happen during a melt down.
Too many other things are going on to expend the money and energy displacing pilots to right size for furlough. If you were here and had any bit of knowledge of the inner working of this merger and what is involved you would be singing a different tune.
DAL is setting the stage quite nicely for the first half of the next decade. I for one am glad I am here.
Noting is perfect, and as I said a year ago, there is going to be pain for the first two years of the merger, but after that, there is no stopping DAL.

I also said, you should see where our real estate guys are looking at. (Gates, etc) Some of those have come true. I said SYD in summer of 09 two and a half years ago. Well? There is other good stuff coming. A lot of it has been delayed, but it will be out just as soon as our leadership knows we are truly in a recovery.

My wrong, wrong, wrong comment was regarding the implication that I wanted to see furloughs, when in fact, (as I said) I want to see hiring.

What would prompt people to take early outs now, when it seemed like they wouldn't leave earlier in the merger? NetJets seems pretty proud of their package. (Quick download it before they put it back to password protected). If they can get people to actually take it (which there I doubt) it would be a coup...there seem to be plenty of options laid out...but in this economy...well anyway, ideas there (for the moment until they take it down again) that may help your union make things enticing.
http://www.njasap.com/jpmc/index.html
http://www.njasap.com/jpmc/pdf/jpmc_042009.pdf
Guys at DL/NW that are very senior may be in more of a position to put these ideas to use than at the fracs.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

They know what they need to get people to take the early out, the same thing they would get if they stayed to 60 for the DAL-N guys. For DAL-S probably a 500K check. (at a min)

 

[Voice Of Reason]

They know what they need to get people to take the early out, the same thing they would get if they stayed to 60 for the DAL-N guys. For DAL-S probably a 500K check. (at a min)

I remember something here about the guys who should have retired going to a much higher $ medical coverage if they stayed there...is that still the case? (Or does it even matter, ie: are they covered by other medical)

 

[ACL65PILOT]

If they were here at DCC they lost that. Now they could offer the NWA rates again, and I am sure that is an option.

 

[Whine Lover]

Hell....It's only five percent of the Fleet that's being retired.

I'm sure Management is trying hard to allow those five percent of the people/pilots responsible for keeping those planes in the air employed.

What's five percent among Friends?

That, coupled with reduced Global demand and a failing U.S. Economy, should not even be an issue.

Delta has, historically, been VERY good to their Employees.

How many of you remember C.E. Woolman?

A Good Man to be sure. He took care of People.

Remain calm. All is well. Nothing has changed.....

There has been NO paradigm shift.

Because, "I say so".

YKMKR

http://kids.niehs.nih.gov/lyrics/happyand.htm