Trouble at IBT747

[Axel]

Well maybe, but lets not forget that ALPA has blown off some smaller pilot groups that have approached them about representation.

Such as Chautauqua.......

 

[Cardinal]

But now they've embraced ComuteAir, Colgan, Capital Cargo, Evergreen along with a few more north of the border.

Good enough for AirTran and the above mentioned airlines but not good enough for the Great Lakes pilots I guess.

There was a small pro-ALPA faction to the bitter end, but at the end of the day UTU made a better case to the Lakes pilots, and won many more hearts and minds right out of the starting gate. Their excitement came through loud and clear. They were responding to emails almost instantly on a Sunday night. They returned phone calls from Africa. ALPA's organizing side needs to realize that a cursory conversation with Joe Line Pilot can have far-reaching effects. That pilot might not sound important over the phone, but he just might hold the keys to an entire airline. One dropped ball can put everything else in a negative light.

Also, ZK has a whipped-puppy mentality sometimes, expecting to be shat on at every turn. I don't know how many times I heard the fear expressed that 'ALPA will forget/ignore us.' May or may not be the case, but that was the perception. The group chose "jewel in the crown" versus "bottom of the barrel."

Anyway, change was what we needed the most, a rebranding. Mission accomplished, now there's lots more work to be done.

 

[Nevets]

There was a small pro-ALPA faction to the bitter end, but at the end of the day UTU made a better case to the Lakes pilots, and won many more hearts and minds right out of the starting gate. Their excitement came through loud and clear. They were responding to emails almost instantly on a Sunday night. They returned phone calls from Africa. ALPA's organizing side needs to realize that a cursory conversation with Joe Line Pilot can have far-reaching effects. That pilot might not sound important over the phone, but he just might hold the keys to an entire airline. One dropped ball can put everything else in a negative light.

Also, ZK has a whipped-puppy mentality sometimes, expecting to be shat on at every turn. I don't know how many times I heard the fear expressed that 'ALPA will forget/ignore us.' May or may not be the case, but that was the perception. The group chose "jewel in the crown" versus "bottom of the barrel."

Anyway, change was what we needed the most, a rebranding. Mission accomplished, now there's lots more work to be done.

That didn't stop anyone from voting ALPA. I see that not even one vote was for ALPA. Not even that pro-ALPA faction that didn't seem bitter enough at the end to vote for ALPA. Anyways, good luck.

 

[Browntothebone]

In-house unions are even more worthless than the IBT. For pilots, ALPA is the only way to go, despite its faults.

You're right. The IPA has done so poorly for UPS pilots over the years.

 

[TWA Dude]

You're right. The IPA has done so poorly for UPS pilots over the years.

Everybody loves their union when times are good. It's when times are bad things get ugly. I don't wish bad things on any airline but if the fit ever hits the shan at UPS or even Southwest you may well see pro-ALPA rumblings.

(The US Airways debacle is an exception. They only dumped ALPA because they thought it would undue a binding arbitration result they didn't like. ALPA could be back on property in a year.)

There was a small pro-ALPA faction to the bitter end, but at the end of the day UTU made a better case to the Lakes pilots, and won many more hearts and minds right out of the starting gate. Their excitement came through loud and clear.

Wait until the excitement wears off and reality sets in.

 

[Cardinal]

That didn't stop anyone from voting ALPA. I see that not even one vote was for ALPA. Not even that pro-ALPA faction that didn't seem bitter enough at the end to vote for ALPA. Anyways, good luck.

My fault, I didn't fully break out the election results. There were 3 write-ins for ALPA.

Wait until the excitement wears off and reality sets in.

Preaching to the choir. But that is the reality, organizing is a marketing exercise, and ALPA for all their merit fell short. Many of our fellow pilots are of the American Idol spoonfed mentality and buy into hype, not substance. ALPA can't rest on it's laurels and expect pilot groups to beg to be represented. Failure to sell themselves cost them this election.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Everybody loves their union when times are good. It's when times are bad things get ugly. I don't wish bad things on any airline but if the fit ever hits the shan at UPS or even Southwest you may well see pro-ALPA rumblings.

(The US Airways debacle is an exception. They only dumped ALPA because they thought it would undue a binding arbitration result they didn't like. ALPA could be back on property in a year.)

Wait until the excitement wears off and reality sets in.

ALPA was voted off at US Airways due to numerous mistakes. The arbitration was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was just one of many mistakes.

 

[PCL_128]

The "mistakes" were made by your local leaders that YOU elected, not by ALPA National.

 

[CFI]

But now they've embraced ComuteAir, Colgan, Capital Cargo, Evergreen along with a few more north of the border.

Good enough for AirTran and the above mentioned airlines but not good enough for the Great Lakes pilots I guess.

Yes, however there is at least one other small regional that approached ALPA recently. They were told for all practical purposes that they weren't worth ALPA's time and effort. ALPA went so far as suggesting that they contact the IBT.

 

[PCL_128]

Which regional was that?

 

[TWA Dude]

The arbitration was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Nobody believes you.

 

[OPECJet]

In-house unions are even more worthless than the IBT. For pilots, ALPA is the only way to go, despite its faults.

Tell Netjets that...

ALPA has great legal, safety, etc, support. It also has entirely too much lip service, eating of young, and all out BS. The ideals behind it are brilliant. Problem is it doesn't work.

 

[PCL_128]

Tell Netjets that...

Netjets isn't an airline. Big difference. They really have no good home within any big union. In-house is the only decent option for them, and it seems to be working ok for them so far. Independent unions don't work for airlines, however, unless you have benevolent management like they have at SWA.

ALPA has great legal, safety, etc, support. It also has entirely too much lip service, eating of young, and all out BS. The ideals behind it are brilliant. Problem is it doesn't work.

It works, so long as you elect good local leaders. All of the support and resources you could ever hope for are at your finger tips with ALPA. You just need good local leaders to use them to your advantage.

 

[pilotyip]

IBT 474 everywhere

Just wait for EFCA, a few Teamsters in the parking lot after work, we will IBT747 everywhere. This comes from a former member of IBT747

 

[PCL_128]

EFCA doesn't apply to RLA industries. (not that your ridiculous insinuations about EFCA are true, anyway)