1224 statement on picking up open time.

[laserman2431]

The leadership of 1224 was asked about issuing a statement condemning the practice of picking up open time while there are pilots out on the the street without income and paying $1400/month for health insurance. JM said the practice makes him sick but he does not want to do make a statement because nobody will pay any attention.

Even if it doesn't change anything, it is the right thing to do. Even if the greedy mutha f'ers continue to grab theirs with both hands while their brothers suffer, the statement will take away to option for those POS to say "I guess it's OK 'cause the union hasn't said I can't."

Hey, pilot groups wanting to join 1224, look what you're getting into.

 

[laserman2431]

I'm going to go through crew track and identify every union leader who has open time in March and out them on this board.

 

[bukakke]

the true strength and resolve of this local 1224, has recently been furloughed, I think its a wonderful idea to out the bastards!

 

[ualdriver]

The leadership of 1224 was asked about issuing a statement condemning the practice of picking up open time while there are pilots out on the the street without income and paying $1400/month for health insurance.

Hey, pilot groups wanting to join 1224, look what you're getting into.

Who is the 1224, anyway?

Just an FYI from our experience here at UAL....our union leaders issued a statement condemning jr./sr. manning (i.e. picking up overtime/helping company out) and that resolution ended up being used against us in court. Your leadership may not be legally able to issue such a statement, even if they want to.

 

[laserman2431]

Who is the 1224, anyway?

Just an FYI from our experience here at UAL....our union leaders issued a statement condemning jr./sr. manning (i.e. picking up overtime/helping company out) and that resolution ended up being used against us in court. Your leadership may not be legally able to issue such a statement, even if they want to.

I think this issue is different. In this case 1224, representing furloughed ABX pilots would be trying to save some pilots from being furloughed. The company is able to cut deep with furloughs because some greedy pilots are willing to pick up open time and get JM'ed. If they didn't grab the open flying for themselves, the company might not be able to furlough so deep. These guys are incredibly greedy. It's similar to the senior guys who want the majority of the severance pay to go to the ones who get to keep their jobs. They want to throw some scraps to the ones who will actually be out of work. Greediest scumbags you'll ever meet.

 

[ualdriver]

I think this issue is different. In this case 1224, representing furloughed ABX pilots would be trying to save some pilots from being furloughed. The company is able to cut deep with furloughs because some greedy pilots are willing to pick up open time and get JM'ed. If they didn't grab the open flying for themselves, the company might not be able to furlough so deep. These guys are incredibly greedy. It's similar to the senior guys who want the majority of the severance pay to go to the ones who get to keep their jobs. They want to throw some scraps to the ones who will actually be out of work. Greediest scumbags you'll ever meet.

Laser-

I understand completely. I think every airline has guys like that unfortunately. And when you fly with them and ask them about it, they get extremely defensive and have every excuse in the book to justify it. I guess you just have to hope that "peer pressure" works. I just doubt that your Union can come out with anything public that might be construed to be violating the "status quo."

Good luck.

 

[laserman2431]

Laser-

I understand completely. I think every airline has guys like that unfortunately. And when you fly with them and ask them about it, they get extremely defensive and have every excuse in the book to justify it. I guess you just have to hope that "peer pressure" works. I just doubt that your Union can come out with anything public that might be construed to be violating the "status quo."

Good luck.

UALdriver.

Thanks for the support. You make a good point. I think the difference is that the company would have to say that they are damaged by the action because it benefits them to furlough deeper than they really have to. I don't see the company going down that road. The union could easily say "we are not trying to harm the companies ability to do business, just keep the furloughs to a minimum.

Who else wants me to out the greedy MF's who are currently using union business leave AND picking up open time? Why do you think the local doesn't want to issue the statement? Because they are picking up open time while their "brothers and sisters" are on the street. A shameful situation.

 

[Classicdriver]

UALdriver.

Thanks for the support. You make a good point. I think the difference is that the company would have to say that they are damaged by the action because it benefits them to furlough deeper than they really have to. I don't see the company going down that road. The union could easily say "we are not trying to harm the companies ability to do business, just keep the furloughs to a minimum.

Who else wants me to out the greedy MF's who are currently using union business leave AND picking up open time? Why do you think the local doesn't want to issue the statement? Because they are picking up open time while their "brothers and sisters" are on the street. A shameful situation.

I'm afraid that even with a statement from 1224. those same SOB's will then change to, "Well, it's in the contract, so they can't stop me." There would be an increased risk of litigation against the union, but little would change.

 

[laserman2431]

The local had no problem strong arming the pilot group about JM and OPF for a different reason this time last year. JM made the statement that he does not want to issue a statement against picking up JM or OPF because it will be ignored.

It wouldn't help me anyway but there are guys just barely on the wrong side of the furlough line who might be able to keep their jobs if not for the greed of others. It's a disgrace.

These POS screw their brothers out of a job so that they can get extra. I guess they just can't make it on $300,000. They need to take another guys job away so that they can have even more. And the local doesn't want to comment.

 

[DC-9er]

I'm going to go through crew track and identify every union leader who has open time in March and out them on this board.

There aren't any. Zero.

 

[laserman2431]

There aren't any. Zero.

Bullshlt. I've already checked. PM me if you want me to run them by you before I post them on here.

 

[DC-9er]

So have I. Crewtrac shows zero!

 

[DC-9er]

post all you want, I don't care. I'm just saying I checked and there weren't any.

 

[laserman2431]

post all you want, I don't care. I'm just saying I checked and there weren't any.

I just sent a PM to DC-9 with one of the names. Lets see what he says now

 

[DC-9er]

I just sent a PM to DC-9 with one of the names. Lets see what he says now

And I answered him.

The guy he accused is NOT listed anywhere on the OPF award, and there is NO opf or cof on his line.

Period.

 

[DC-9er]

Why don't you post his name so EVERYBODY can check and see that you're wrong.

 

[TWA]

I'm going to go through crew track and identify every union leader who has open time in March and out them on this board.

Not on this board.

 

[DC-9er]

Not on this board.

Don't worry about it, TWA.

Laserman won't be posting any names because his accusation was wrong.

 

[laserman2431]

Don't worry about it, TWA.

Laserman won't be posting any names because his accusation was wrong.

I just sent PM to DC-9 with 3 OPF pairings for just one of the many 1224 leaders who are getting UNBS leave while also taking open flying. They won't come out with a statement against it because many are doing it themselves. It is a sad situation.

They should at least insist that their own do not pick up open flying. They are taking jobs away from others who are out on the street.

 

[laserman2431]

I just PM'ed DC-9 with another name for the hall of shame. Watch him get all quiet now.

What do you think TWA? Is it OK for them to be picking up open time when their brothers and sisters are filing for unemployment? They shouldn't have to be told it's not OK. Here is unadulterated greed. What do you say now DC-9?

 

[laserman2431]

Somewhere out there is one person who was one number away from getting to keep his/her job for at least a little longer. The company was able to furlough him/her because there are plenty of pilots willing to pick up the open flying, including union leaders using union business leave.

OK. I'll wait a little while to see what DC-9 has to say. Tomorrow, I'll share a PM I received from DC-9 that raises some very serious concerns for me.

 

[DC-9er]

Here's what he sent me. Three trips going back to December, and another guy who's picked up opf before he left the company.

Laserman, this was once a good job. After all, you chose to come here. But the people who screwed it up are DHL, along with ABX management. Not the pilots.

 

[laserman2431]

Here's what he sent me. Three trips going back to December, and another guy who's picked up opf before he left the company.

Laserman, this was once a good job. After all, you chose to come here. But the people who screwed it up are DHL, along with ABX management. Not the pilots.

One of the trips is in April 2009! That was for a person who DC-9 says is "intimately" involved in negotiating the severance pay. Who do you think that person is looking out for? I'm guessing he's not too worried about the lower half of the seniority list.

Three trips? I can think of some pilots who would really like to be doing three trips this month.

I think DC-9 has admitted he was wrong.

Any malfeasance on the part of DHL or ABX does not erase the shame of 1224 leaders picking up open flying while their brothers and sisters are out on the street! We can't control what DHL or ABX leaders do but we can say that it is not alright to engage in this kind of behavior.

I have plenty more names DC-9. Do you want me to send more? Watch it get all quiet now.

 

[TWA]

My opinion on the matter is a moot point. People will not be called out on this board. Once you start, it is a slippery slope. Do you want all the people who bid Japan without good work rules called out here too? I know they weren't too popular around the 1224 hall either...

Regardless, calling out names on this board will not be tolerated.

 

[DC-9er]

I'm guessing he's not too worried about the lower half of the seniority list.

You'd guess wrong. I know I'm talking to a wall here, but it's not the union that's kept you from getting severance. If you want to continue to blame your bad fortunes on pilots, so be it. The union will continue to try to get you severance regardless.

Anyway, it's my opinion that we'll all be out of jobs once this has played out. CCI is already taking over DHL trips from ABX and Astar.

 

[laserman2431]

My opinion on the matter is a moot point. People will not be called out on this board. Once you start, it is a slippery slope. Do you want all the people who bid Japan without good work rules called out here too? I know they weren't too popular around the 1224 hall either...

Regardless, calling out names on this board will not be tolerated.

Sure. I don't care if you want to out the KIX CA's. The local was wrong about that one but it's ancient history now. The union leaders picking up open time while their brothers and sisters are out on the street is happening now.

OK. I'll hold off on releasing the names for now because I don't want TWA to shut down this thread. Anyone can look it up for themselves. Just go to the 1224 web site and look at the the leaders including the Committee Chairmen then check their lines.

 

[laserman2431]

You'd guess wrong. I know I'm talking to a wall here, but it's not the union that's kept you from getting severance. If you want to continue to blame your bad fortunes on pilots, so be it. The union will continue to try to get you severance regardless.

Anyway, it's my opinion that we'll all be out of jobs once this has played out. CCI is already taking over DHL trips from ABX and Astar.

DC-9er. You're not talking to a wall. I'm hearing what you have to say. First you said I was providing incorrect information about 1224 Local leaders picking up OPF while others are out on furlough. Then I provided you the proof and you backed off from that statement.

I'm not sure about the relevance of your statement that we will may all be on the street eventually. Are you saying that makes it OK for some pilots to take jobs away from others because they want more money?

We have a situation where Local 1224 leaders are picking up open time and nobody is doing anything to encourage them to stop. This indicates that they are greedy and don't care if they are taking jobs from other pilots. Then you say that one of these greedy bastards is one of the main guys negotiating the severance package. That would be the same severance package that Local 1224 want to primarily go to compensate the pilots who get to keep their jobs while the scraps go to those who will actually be out of work.

I'm not blaming my fortunes on pilots. I already said that I will be on the street either way. I am saying that there are others who are just barely on the wrong side of the furlough line who might be working if not for the greed of others.

Can you address one question? Do you think it is OK for pilots to be picking up OPF while others are out on furlough?

 

[mxer]

This is an issue that has been around since 2002 when ABX did the first furlough of 42. If I am not mistaken, didn't Orville apply for a single pilot waiver and cause Wilber to get furloughed. Think I read that somewhere. Good Luck to all on the street. It's getting crowded out here.

 

[OrionFE]

I think this issue is different. In this case 1224, representing furloughed ABX pilots would be trying to save some pilots from being furloughed. The company is able to cut deep with furloughs because some greedy pilots are willing to pick up open time and get JM'ed. If they didn't grab the open flying for themselves, the company might not be able to furlough so deep. These guys are incredibly greedy. It's similar to the senior guys who want the majority of the severance pay to go to the ones who get to keep their jobs. They want to throw some scraps to the ones who will actually be out of work. Greediest scumbags you'll ever meet.

That goes on in any and all locals. You figure out how to stop it and I vote you MEC! This comes up all the time in all airlines that have guys furloughed. There is no unity in the Airline Union$. Guys will still chase the $$$$. Guys that have no idea or think they know what is going on in the Union Leadership start screaming to fire the Union EXEC Council. As was posted already, you can't put out a statement and say no OT! What legality do you have? The real point is......where is the UNITY????

Currently Furloughed!!

 

[laserman2431]

That goes on in any and all locals. You figure out how to stop it and I vote you MEC! This comes up all the time in all airlines that have guys furloughed. There is no unity in the Airline Union$. Guys will still chase the $$$$. Guys that have no idea or think they know what is going on in the Union Leadership start screaming to fire the Union EXEC Council. As was posted already, you can't put out a statement and say no OT! What legality do you have? The real point is......where is the UNITY????

Currently Furloughed!!

They didn't have a problem with a statement last year at this time. You would think at least the local leaders would forgo it.

I'm really having a problem with the idea that this guy is supposedly representing me and others in negotiations over a severance package and he can't even lay off the OPF (other people's flying) for a couple of months.