170/175 and CRJ900

[MCOE175]

Why do the mainline people really care about the 170/175 being a mainline plane so much? It is the same thing as a crj900.
Is it because it has slides and engines under the wing?
Its still an RJ... stop the b$tching already!

 

[lookin4better]

Its not a mainline " plane " but it flies on routes that should be mainline.... and for that matter, the CR700 and 900 too....

They care about jobs that are suppose to be mainline jobs... not what the plane looks like..

maybe they arent the ones who need to stop whining.

Cheers!

 

[Brasilia Pup]

Because us inferior regional pilots cannot handle the adverse yaw of a an engine-out scenario with wing mounted engines. Or so they say. It's like the 900 is a jet with training wheels (almost centerline thrust). Anyways....MESA SUCKS

 

[Brasilia Pup]

Its not a mainline " plane " but it flies on routes that should be mainline.... and for that matter, the CR700 and 900 too....

They care about jobs that are suppose to be mainline jobs... not what the plane looks like..

maybe they arent the ones who need to stop whining.

Cheers!

Exactly what is a mainline route? I fly the 200 into the same airports that mainline flies into. It's just a matter of time of day and passenger demand. I say that your theory holds no water.

 

[lookin4better]

* hands a tissue for your tears

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

You guys really like flying an 86,000 pound airplane for 25 bucks an hour?

10 years ago the same size airplane was flown for 140 bucks an hour in the right seat. Why don't we start trying to make this a career that people strive to be in again instead of not being able to afford to do anything?

 

[MCOE175]

I don't think anyone likes flying any plane for 25 an hour... But we all start someplace... and I am sure that you all would have done it too had you had the chance.
We all want to move up and make more money...
But remember its not the regional guys fault.
Just remember who gave up scope!
Hence the reason the pay went down...

 

[CheapFlyer]

Its still an RJ... stop the b$tching already!

Don't feed the trolls!

 

[xjlifer]

What is that smell????







Oh yea a dead horse!:smash:

 

[Speedtape]

You guys really like flying an 86,000 pound airplane for 25 bucks an hour?

10 years ago the same size airplane was flown for 140 bucks an hour in the right seat. Why don't we start trying to make this a career that people strive to be in again instead of not being able to afford to do anything?

Let us know when you get that done!

There may be some real good reasons why that changed! There may be even more reasons why it want be reversed. There is no incentive or will on the part of mainline pilots to invest negotiating capital to get it done. The only mainline pilots that you hear talking about it are the ones that have only been there a couple of years. Probably, when you get a little more time under your belt and hold good schedules flying a larger airplane--you want care about it anymore either.

But, I think most regional pilots would agree with your idea. It want happen--ever.

 

[sweptback]

You guys really like flying an 86,000 pound airplane for 25 bucks an hour?

10 years ago the same size airplane was flown for 140 bucks an hour in the right seat. Why don't we start trying to make this a career that people strive to be in again instead of not being able to afford to do anything?

That's some pretty big talk from somebody who flew a 53,000 lb. airplane for $21/hr when they started out. I didn't see you turn down that job either.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I played the game... the 53,000 pound jet I got hired into was a turboprop replacement. As times went on, I found myself flying 3+ hour legs in it. I knew something was wrong and the ball was rolling south faster and faster...then the bankruptcies came. Then the jumbo RJs came.

The regionals were intended to be a small aircraft operation and as a stepping stone to get to the big leagues....with the occassional career stop.

I absolutely agree with who gave up scope, and everytime I saw it erode further, I saw my chances of making it to the big leagues grow slimmer and slimmer.

Now that I'm there, I'm trying to make a difference. How about you?

 

[Speedtape]

I played the game... the 53,000 pound jet I got hired into was a turboprop replacement. As times went on, I found myself flying 3+ hour legs in it. I knew something was wrong and the ball was rolling south faster and faster...then the bankruptcies came. Then the jumbo RJs came.
I guess it's all a matter of perspective. Some people flew 6 and 7 leg days in an unpressurized turbo prop in 100 degree heat of summer. 3+ hour legs sounds pretty good from the other perspective.

The regionals were intended to be a small aircraft operation and as a stepping stone to get to the big leagues....with the occassional career stop.
I guess some look at it that way. But, who made those rules--if they do exist?

I absolutely agree with who gave up scope, and everytime I saw it erode further, I saw my chances of making it to the big leagues grow slimmer and slimmer.
I totally agree with you on this one. That's why some of us got stuck.

Now that I'm there, I'm trying to make a difference. How about you?

I applaud and admire your position and attitude. Hopefully, it trickles up some day. But being a realist, I know that there is a point up your seniority list that most view it as a necessity to support their lifestyle and will not join you in your vision. They don't want to fly them or have them in their fleet, but, understandably, they want to control them.

However, Thank you for not forgetting where you came from and campaigning for a lofty goal. In spirit, I am on your team.

 

[ArianaAfghanAir]

Everytime an RJ gets delivered to your company, it will take you that much longer to get to your real goal when you started this career. Which is to fly mainline equipment.

 

[Speedtape]

Everytime an RJ gets delivered to your company, it will take you that much longer to get to your real goal when you started this career. Which is to fly mainline equipment.

Most of us are not responsible for letting that cat out of the bag!

 

[spudskier]

A CRJ200 was not meant to do ATL to ICT, TUL, BTV, PVD, DTW, or anything that long/far. hate those legs and so do the pax. That's not regional flying.

/soapbox

 

[surplus1]

Why do the mainline people really care about the 170/175 being a mainline plane so much?

There's a one word answer to your question:

GREED!

 

[surplus1]

10 years ago the same size airplane was flown for 140 bucks an hour in the right seat.

And that is one of the reasons that most of them went bankrupt.

It's just like paying 300 thousand dollars for a 100 thousand dollar house. Sooner or later the bubble bursts and everything goes to H_ll in the proverbial basket.

They (the pilots) priced themselves out of the market. When management got the opportunity, not only did they take away the excess wages, the also low-balled everything, gutted the work rules and stole the pensions.

That $140/hr you long for was simply a bridge too far.

A battle of pilot GREED vs management GREED and management won.

At times it is prudent to be careful what you ask for - you might get it.

Caveat emptor! Extremes (from either side) are not a good thing.

 

[Smarta$$]

Why do the mainline people really care about the 170/175 being a mainline plane so much? It is the same thing as a crj900.
Is it because it has slides and engines under the wing?
Its still an RJ... stop the b$tching already!

You are all missing the origanal question. Why are they targeting the 170/175, but I havent seen any threads or websites about taking back or stapling the CR9, or even the CR2/7 for that matter.

It is the same old "only the airplanes that look worthy" syndrom.

You guys will never fix the problem unless you get all the RJs and large T-props back where they belong. And don't give me this crap about it being a "good start". That is so transparent.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

You are all missing the origanal question. Why are they targeting the 170/175, but I havent seen any threads or websites about taking back or stapling the CR9, or even the CR2/7 for that matter.

It is the same old "only the airplanes that look worthy" syndrom.

You guys will never fix the problem unless you get all the RJs and large T-props back where they belong. And don't give me this crap about it being a "good start". That is so transparent.

Sir, simply put, you are dead wrong.
We have looked at it from a lot of sides. The quickest way to get this ball rolling is with CPZ and the E-jets. It is for legal reasons.
I know Joe Merchant will chime in here how the Ford-Cookseylawsuit helped save his RJ career, but it did a lot more damaging things.
See that lawsuit caused a lot of issues. Fact is that EV and OH fly the CRJ series. They were the ones that "benefited" from that lawsuit. They are represented by ALPA as DALPA is. We have a few more steps to get those 900's on property than we do with the E jets. It comes down to a representational issues.
We know for a fact that Joe's friend from OH will slap a lawsuit on DALPA/ALPA when we advance on their CRJ turf. We are aware. But, we will be working for those too.
It is not that it is an inferior product. The E-jet is more passenger friendly, but more costly to operate. So from a business perspective the CRJ makes a better business case for us. Just trust Peanuckle and I when we say we are doing everything we can do to do our part in brining back scope.
It will be a long road. But one we are willing to fight. They way I see it If you do not have a good section 1 then the rest of our CBA is not worth the paper it is written on.
Joe and his friends know there are people over here with good minds that are going to fight for this.

 

[samballs]

Sir, simply put, you are dead wrong.
We have looked at it from a lot of sides. The quickest way to get this ball rolling is with CPZ and the E-jets. It is for legal reasons.
I know Joe Merchant will chime in here how the Ford-Cookseylawsuit helped save his RJ career, but it did a lot more damaging things.
See that lawsuit caused a lot of issues. Fact is that EV and OH fly the CRJ series. They were the ones that "benefited" from that lawsuit. They are represented by ALPA as DALPA is. We have a few more steps to get those 900's on property than we do with the E jets. It comes down to a representational issues.
We know for a fact that Joe's friend from OH will slap a lawsuit on DALPA/ALPA when we advance on their CRJ turf. We are aware. But, we will be working for those too.
It is not that it is an inferior product. The E-jet is more passenger friendly, but more costly to operate. So from a business perspective the CRJ makes a better business case for us. Just trust Peanuckle and I when we say we are doing everything we can do to do our part in brining back scope.
It will be a long road. But one we are willing to fight. They way I see it If you do not have a good section 1 then the rest of our CBA is not worth the paper it is written on.
Joe and his friends know there are people over here with good minds that are going to fight for this.

Aren't you in your first year at DL, yet you always say 'we' like you're a manager of the company, and now you're saying I'm going to get scope back. I think that you really think you run DL. Good luck running the union and DL. How will you make all these changes when flying a 170 at Compass next year?

 

[siucavflight]

This is a funny argument, everyone rips these guys for taking a job flying a large RJ for 25 dollars an hour.

Let me ask you this, where exactly do you expect them to start out? I did it, I went to Eagle made around 55K total for two years of service there. But I used the time I built to land a six figure job making more then most mainline guys. So I will never ever regret flying an RJ on mainline routes for 25 bucks an hour, and I will never tell someone that they should not either.

 

[ksus]

siuav
not everyone is lucky like you dawg.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Aren't you in your first year at DL, yet you always say 'we' like you're a manager of the company, and now you're saying I'm going to get scope back. I think that you really think you run DL. Good luck running the union and DL. How will you make all these changes when flying a 170 at Compass next year?

How you interpret what I say is your deal. I find it funny that you think I am a manager or actively in the union. I just call it like I see it based on the info I have.

No I am not in first year.

 

[erikgigem]

Why do the mainline people really care about the 170/175 being a mainline plane so much? It is the same thing as a crj900.
Is it because it has slides and engines under the wing?
Its still an RJ... stop the b$tching already!

Because most mainline crews and frequent fliers don't like the CRJ Jets because they are so uncomfortable to be in for any length of time. Although small improvements came to the CRJ9700/900 - the CRJ brand has a bad reputation for passenger comfort (due to its design and shear numbers of CRJs flying out there over Embraer products).

The few 170/175/190s have much larger seats, leg room, and padding in the seat itself. Embraer made similar economical and ergonomical decisions when it designed the EMB135,140,145 series.

If you are a CRJ driver or whatever you fly- just ignore the comments. There is always going to be a plane that is better than yours.

 

[sweptback]

Because most mainline crews and frequent fliers don't like the CRJ Jets because they are so uncomfortable to be in for any length of time. Although small improvements came to the CRJ9700/900 - the CRJ brand has a bad reputation for passenger comfort (due to its design and shear numbers of CRJs flying out there over Embraer products).

The few 170/175/190s have much larger seats, leg room, and padding in the seat itself. Embraer made similar economical and ergonomical decisions when it designed the EMB135,140,145 series.

If you are a CRJ driver or whatever you fly- just ignore the comments. There is always going to be a plane that is better than yours.

Nobody cares which airplane is better than the other. It's irrelevant, really, except to make underpaid RJ drivers feel better about their life.

The point is, they're all 50-76 seat turbojets, and they really should never have been flown by "regional" pilots for a sub-B scale.

 

[Grey Ghost]

You guys really like flying an 86,000 pound airplane for 25 bucks an hour?

10 years ago the same size airplane was flown for 140 bucks an hour in the right seat. Why don't we start trying to make this a career that people strive to be in again instead of not being able to afford to do anything?

Amen, brother!!! Well put!

 

[Superpilot92]

How you interpret what I say is your deal. I find it funny that you think I am a manager or actively in the union. I just call it like I see it based on the info I have.

No I am not in first year.

Dont worry ACL, some people just want to sit on the sidelines and point fingers at people and others want in the game to try and call the plays. If more people would get into the game we would have a better chance at changing the outcome. So far the team is growing and those on the sidelines just look more and more like waterboys.

 

[G2T]

You guys will never fix the problem unless you get all the RJs and large T-props back where they belong. And don't give me this crap about it being a "good start". That is so transparent.

If it's not a good start, then what do you call it? Do you expect Delta to suddenly embrace all connection flying and welcome them to mainline with open arms? I don't think so. Start with a small group that's already represented by the mainline MEC to set precedent, then tackle the rest. You should be pulling for this to happen and supporting it, not hating on it because you're not part of it right away.

 

[Browntothebone]

You guys really like flying an 86,000 pound airplane for 25 bucks an hour?

10 years ago the same size airplane was flown for 140 bucks an hour in the right seat. Why don't we start trying to make this a career that people strive to be in again instead of not being able to afford to do anything?

Beats working in a cubicle or being a CFI.
Money can't buy you happiness. But the view from FL 350 can make you very happy.