170/175 and CRJ900

[samballs]

Sir, simply put, you are dead wrong.
We have looked at it from a lot of sides. The quickest way to get this ball rolling is with CPZ and the E-jets. It is for legal reasons.
I know Joe Merchant will chime in here how the Ford-Cookseylawsuit helped save his RJ career, but it did a lot more damaging things.
See that lawsuit caused a lot of issues. Fact is that EV and OH fly the CRJ series. They were the ones that "benefited" from that lawsuit. They are represented by ALPA as DALPA is. We have a few more steps to get those 900's on property than we do with the E jets. It comes down to a representational issues.
We know for a fact that Joe's friend from OH will slap a lawsuit on DALPA/ALPA when we advance on their CRJ turf. We are aware. But, we will be working for those too.
It is not that it is an inferior product. The E-jet is more passenger friendly, but more costly to operate. So from a business perspective the CRJ makes a better business case for us. Just trust Peanuckle and I when we say we are doing everything we can do to do our part in brining back scope.
It will be a long road. But one we are willing to fight. They way I see it If you do not have a good section 1 then the rest of our CBA is not worth the paper it is written on.
Joe and his friends know there are people over here with good minds that are going to fight for this.

Aren't you in your first year at DL, yet you always say 'we' like you're a manager of the company, and now you're saying I'm going to get scope back. I think that you really think you run DL. Good luck running the union and DL. How will you make all these changes when flying a 170 at Compass next year?

 

[siucavflight]

This is a funny argument, everyone rips these guys for taking a job flying a large RJ for 25 dollars an hour.

Let me ask you this, where exactly do you expect them to start out? I did it, I went to Eagle made around 55K total for two years of service there. But I used the time I built to land a six figure job making more then most mainline guys. So I will never ever regret flying an RJ on mainline routes for 25 bucks an hour, and I will never tell someone that they should not either.

 

[ksus]

siuav
not everyone is lucky like you dawg.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Aren't you in your first year at DL, yet you always say 'we' like you're a manager of the company, and now you're saying I'm going to get scope back. I think that you really think you run DL. Good luck running the union and DL. How will you make all these changes when flying a 170 at Compass next year?

How you interpret what I say is your deal. I find it funny that you think I am a manager or actively in the union. I just call it like I see it based on the info I have.

No I am not in first year.

 

[erikgigem]

Why do the mainline people really care about the 170/175 being a mainline plane so much? It is the same thing as a crj900.
Is it because it has slides and engines under the wing?
Its still an RJ... stop the b$tching already!

Because most mainline crews and frequent fliers don't like the CRJ Jets because they are so uncomfortable to be in for any length of time. Although small improvements came to the CRJ9700/900 - the CRJ brand has a bad reputation for passenger comfort (due to its design and shear numbers of CRJs flying out there over Embraer products).

The few 170/175/190s have much larger seats, leg room, and padding in the seat itself. Embraer made similar economical and ergonomical decisions when it designed the EMB135,140,145 series.

If you are a CRJ driver or whatever you fly- just ignore the comments. There is always going to be a plane that is better than yours.

 

[sweptback]

Because most mainline crews and frequent fliers don't like the CRJ Jets because they are so uncomfortable to be in for any length of time. Although small improvements came to the CRJ9700/900 - the CRJ brand has a bad reputation for passenger comfort (due to its design and shear numbers of CRJs flying out there over Embraer products).

The few 170/175/190s have much larger seats, leg room, and padding in the seat itself. Embraer made similar economical and ergonomical decisions when it designed the EMB135,140,145 series.

If you are a CRJ driver or whatever you fly- just ignore the comments. There is always going to be a plane that is better than yours.

Nobody cares which airplane is better than the other. It's irrelevant, really, except to make underpaid RJ drivers feel better about their life.

The point is, they're all 50-76 seat turbojets, and they really should never have been flown by "regional" pilots for a sub-B scale.

 

[Grey Ghost]

You guys really like flying an 86,000 pound airplane for 25 bucks an hour?

10 years ago the same size airplane was flown for 140 bucks an hour in the right seat. Why don't we start trying to make this a career that people strive to be in again instead of not being able to afford to do anything?

Amen, brother!!! Well put!

 

[Superpilot92]

How you interpret what I say is your deal. I find it funny that you think I am a manager or actively in the union. I just call it like I see it based on the info I have.

No I am not in first year.

Dont worry ACL, some people just want to sit on the sidelines and point fingers at people and others want in the game to try and call the plays. If more people would get into the game we would have a better chance at changing the outcome. So far the team is growing and those on the sidelines just look more and more like waterboys.

 

[G2T]

You guys will never fix the problem unless you get all the RJs and large T-props back where they belong. And don't give me this crap about it being a "good start". That is so transparent.

If it's not a good start, then what do you call it? Do you expect Delta to suddenly embrace all connection flying and welcome them to mainline with open arms? I don't think so. Start with a small group that's already represented by the mainline MEC to set precedent, then tackle the rest. You should be pulling for this to happen and supporting it, not hating on it because you're not part of it right away.

 

[Browntothebone]

You guys really like flying an 86,000 pound airplane for 25 bucks an hour?

10 years ago the same size airplane was flown for 140 bucks an hour in the right seat. Why don't we start trying to make this a career that people strive to be in again instead of not being able to afford to do anything?

Beats working in a cubicle or being a CFI.
Money can't buy you happiness. But the view from FL 350 can make you very happy.

 

[Browntothebone]

Everytime an RJ gets delivered to your company, it will take you that much longer to get to your real goal when you started this career. Which is to fly mainline equipment.

I've talked to many regional pilots who say that they got into the airlines with NO intention of trying to get on at a major and they want to make their career at the regionals.

 

[PGTB]

Putting toothpaste back in the tube.

 

[samballs]

How you interpret what I say is your deal. I find it funny that you think I am a manager or actively in the union. I just call it like I see it based on the info I have.

No I am not in first year.

What I'm saying is you always use "we" when talking about your company running cost. It was people in the GO not you. When talking about union you say we're working on, its not you, its the MEC. sorry 2nd year

 

[Whiskerbizkit]

Its not the 1st year pay, hell CAL pays $30hr 1st yr. It that when pay was negoiated for the 170/700/900, it was far lower than what a mainline would pay. Those plane are compariable to the old DC9s, F100 and the pay is close to half. The problem started when mainline was shrinking their fleet and regionals were coming in with bigger equipment and it possed a threat to their employment.

 

[Smarta$$]

If it's not a good start, then what do you call it? Do you expect Delta to suddenly embrace all connection flying and welcome them to mainline with open arms? I don't think so. Start with a small group that's already represented by the mainline MEC to set precedent, then tackle the rest. You should be pulling for this to happen and supporting it, not hating on it because you're not part of it right away.

Yeah right. You watch, even if this is successfull, it will end there. They will not expend the time and energy to take back the other "unworthy" aircraft types.

I am 100% for all the planes going back to mainline. But they only want the bigger, pretty'r ones.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The 50 is self limiting and will not be here for too much longer. As for the 70 seaters. I would be happy to take those too. That would be an even bigger fight.
We are already fighting an uphill battle. People do not want to give away their negotiating capital to bring these jets up to mainline wages.
My response is if you don't your mainline wages will come down to the regional level.

 

[PGTB]

Perhaps money isnt everything to some, and would chose to be at the top of one list, rather then at the bottom of another list making less, and in the other seat.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Smart@$$.... really? Yes I'm blowing smoke up your butt because I only want "pretty" airplanes at mainline. The only reason it's 175's currently is because that is what CPZ flies.

When it's time to start barking up the other trees to bring the rest of the 70+ seat flying back.... we'll take care of that. How about instead of sitting on the sideline and b!itching, you try to help support getting more high end jobs made available?

(We've got payrates for the "unwanted" 900 already, FYI)

 

[Smarta$$]

Smart@$$.... really? Yes I'm blowing smoke up your butt because I only want "pretty" airplanes at mainline. The only reason it's 175's currently is because that is what CPZ flies.

When it's time to start barking up the other trees to bring the rest of the 70+ seat flying back.... we'll take care of that. How about instead of sitting on the sideline and b!itching, you try to help support getting more high end jobs made available?

(We've got payrates for the "unwanted" 900 already, FYI)

Oh, I see, only 70+ seats are worth flying. I will eat my words when I am proven wrong. In this case, I hope I am. But, it won't happen. If you get the 175's, that will be the end of it. You won't see a CRJ at mainline, not worthy.

Prove me wrong.

And adding 36 new planes that come with 360 young pilots, does not increase my chances of becoming a future Delta new hire. If the planes come with pilots, that does not create any new jobs.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

We are trying to prove you wrong.. this is the first and most simple step.

Keep telling yourself the CRJ isnt worthy. When I last jumpseated on a CRJ-900, we took off weighing 82,000 pounds. The picture on airliners.net of a 900 taxiing next to a DC-9-30 makes me sick.

If this movement gets momentum (as it should... most of the senior captains I fly with are more than fired up about getting brand scope), you'll see a significant push (a la AAL) when negotiations start up again.

I've tried to push the deal with just bringing on all the wholly owned carriers with guys, but there is alot of resistance since XJ and OH haven't had a mainline interview or been appropriately screened. This would be the same with the other regionals, though even more hurdles.

BTW, this DOES creat new jobs. It creates 360 fewer regional jobs and 360 additional mainline jobs.... that is 180+ more Delta captains. On top of all that, those 360 slots will be converted into 400-420+ by conforming to our workrules and staffing requirements. Didn't think of that, did you?


I say again.. this is the first step of many. Let's make this the career that we dreamed of having when we were kids.