Ground the Q400

[Erlanger]

Regardless of the aircraft you fly, here's a free course from NASA about icing. It might be a good idea for all of us to take it.

http://aircrafticing.grc.nasa.gov/courses_inflight.html#

 

[atrdriver]

The NTSB has come out already and given preliminary information regarding the details on the FDR and CVR. It's ok, Voltron, be able to make some reasonable assumptions about what has happened. If you knew anything, you'd realize this sounds like a textbook tail stall... and it points directly to how Bombardier has gotten overzealous with stretching their airplanes.

It makes you wonder how close these aircraft are close to tail stalling clean.

How long did it take you to dig out your copy of Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators? Yeah, lets ground every type that ever gets in an accident. And then your airline can spend millions in down time and maybe you'll be furloughed because they can't afford it.

 

[RJET]

Boys and girls,
I have opinions too on this, but let's all shut up until the final is out.

I agree....

 

[atrdriver]

Things can't be looking very good for Bombardier right now as most of the aviation accidents over the past 3-4 years have been in their airplanes.

Really? I counted 124 accidents worldwide since 1/2007, with 8 of them involving Bombardier. Yeah, that sounds like "most" to me.

 

[hawkerjet]

If what people are saying is true, then this airplane is unsafe and needs to be grounded immediately.

Since there was a very recent accident involving a Q400, people are saying a lot of things. Out of respect for those who perished, and the professionalism of the aviation community, I suggest a proactive approach to this discussion. Let's all discuss the effects of tail stalls and the counterintuitive nature of getting out of them. Nasa has done a good job and provides a video dealing with this subject. Here's a link to it:
http://aircrafticing.grc.nasa.gov/courses/inflight_icing/related/3_2_3f_RI.html
This could be a review for some pilots and the first time some of us have heard of this phenomenom. I know I was surprised the first time I viewed this video and i learned something important because if I ever encountered one prior to this video, I would have done everything wrong and exacerbate the situation.

 

[Flyprdu]

You know people.. this is an open forum. The amount of pressure that some of you keep trying to exert on shutting down the conversation is ridiculous.

I understand it's touchy. But for f*ck sake, no one is forcing you to read this.

Some of us would like to bounce ideas off each other, because there is a significant chance that the Q400 just fell out the sky because of moderate icing. And that fact scares the living piss out of me.

 

[haulingthemail]

anyone remember Roselawn? Well they fixed that problem and the ATR lives on today. So please like so many have said, let the NTSB do their job and stop "monday morning quarterbacking" this. I'm sure the families of those pilots might read this page, so them some respect! about their loved ones.

 

[Tarzan]

Some of us would like to bounce ideas off each other, because there is a significant chance that the Q400 just fell out the sky because of moderate icing. And that fact scares the living piss out of me.

Either put your big girl panties on and go fly or quit.

 

[atrdriver]

I don't think the Q-400 has been around long enough nor have enough of them been built so that "millions" of successful flights have been made yet. Considering its short service life and the accidents it has had it is not proving to be a very safe airframe.

It was introduced in 1997. That's 11 years. And yeah, there are only 140 or so in service, but to say that it's not a "safe" airframe is asinine.

 

[Flyprdu]

Either put your big girl panties on and go fly or quit.

Classy.

 

[RJP]

Some of us would like to bounce ideas off each other, because there is a significant chance that the Q400 just fell out the sky because of moderate icing. And that fact scares the living piss out of me.

So far the only ideas you've bounced off the internet are that you want Horizon shut down and you're scared to death of ice.

I sure hope you're not a line pilot because some poor reserve guy's going to have to fly for you when you call in sick every time the weather looks "iffy".

 

[Flyprdu]

So far the only ideas you've bounced off the internet are that you want Horizon shut down and you're scared to death of ice.

I sure hope you're not a line pilot because some poor reserve guy's going to have to fly for you when you call in sick every time the weather looks "iffy".

lol touche.

 

[FO 4 Life]

anyone remember Roselawn? Well they fixed that problem and the ATR lives on today. So please like so many have said, let the NTSB do their job and stop "monday morning quarterbacking" this. I'm sure the families of those pilots might read this page, so them some respect! about their loved ones.

The ATR was also kicked out of the North immediately after that. It was moved to just DFW, MIA and SJU.

 

[Lynxman]

Deleted

 

[IDEtoNJA]

I don't think the Q-400 has been around long enough nor have enough of them been built so that "millions" of successful flights have been made yet. Considering its short service life and the accidents it has had it is not proving to be a very safe airframe. Things can't be looking very good for Bombardier right now as most of the aviation accidents over the past 3-4 years have been in their airplanes.

DoinTime,

As of October 1st, 2008 Bombardier delivered 219 Q400 airframes. The first Q400 entered passenger service with SAS in early 2000, with, entry to service with Tyrolean Airways/Austrian Arrows shortly thereafter.

Even when using very conservative airframe time and segments of 3000 hours per annum per airframe and 2000 segments per annum per airframe, you would achieve a very low incident to either hours or segments.

With exception to the mentioned chronic landing gear issues in 2007, as far as I know, Colgan 3407 has been the only fatal accident of the model.

IDEtoNJA