Barnstormers Aerial Advertising

[Bus-Driver]

Does anyone know anything about Barnstormers aerial advertising? I'm not looking for a job, but my brother-in-law (low time CFI trying to cop out) is. He has heard about them and is now willing to pony up $3500 in "training cost". The check up front thing, which doesn't even include the tailwheel endorsement, smells a little fishy to me. If anyone has info that would make me a believer, or that I can use to talk him out of this mess, i would greatly appreciate it. Thanks

 

[Capt10Matt]

They want to make him pay them $3500 in order to train so that he can work for this advertising operation?

Am I reading this correctly?

 

[Bus-Driver]

They want to make him pay them $3500 in order to train so that he can work for this advertising operation?

Am I reading this correctly?

Thats what I'm told. I've alway's been against paying for a job, but you know family, they'll never listen to you. $3500 seems extremely steep as well. Just wondering if there was anyone out there that has gone this route and what kind of experience they had?

 

[bizjet800]

There's a sucker born every minute. If your "brother-in-law" pays $3500 for a job like this, or any job for that matter, he is a fool! If he does do it, give me his info, I need to sell some ocean front property in Nebraska!

 

[Bus-Driver]

Yeah, I already told him that I had a bunch of concrete work needed at my house, for $3500 I would let him do it so that he could get more experience. Really though, I was just hoping for some info on the actual operation

 

[flyalot]

I know nothing of the company.
Do not pay for this training. As someone who was training new pilots in banner tow ops. No special sign off is needed. The operator has an agreement with the local FSDO. New pilots name must be listed with the FSDO. Nothing more.

Tailwheel training. Get it some where else. Pay by the hour, he will walk away a much better pilot.

 

[Bryan D]

Barnstormers in Myrtle Beach? I flew for Sky Signs in Myrtle Beach. I had to land in N. Myrtle one day because of weather, thats when I got my first look at Barnstormers planes. One had plywood wing tips (I shat you not), the instrument panel was COVERED with those plastic embossed labels, I guess it makes for good reading while they drone up and down the beach. Most of the planes are silver, it's a UV coating, they are saving money by not applying the final white paint. The BS pilots were always biching about their planes on the beach frequency.
I would not fly their planes if they paid ME, much less me paying THEM.

 

[svcta]

There are operators all over that do this. ALL are scum. Sky signs in Myrtle and then there's one in Jax, or Daytona or somewhere around there. DO NOT get in to bed with these people. There is NO required training to tow banners, as accurately reported above.

I personally know someone who fell for this crap against my advice and the guy paid the several thousand $$, got "trained" and NEVER flew after that. The shyster who took his money simply strung him a long and said that there was no work to be done. So my friend sat and slept in the hangar waiting on nothing until he gave up.

RUN DON'T WALK AWAY FROM THESE DEALS! There is NO upside or good to come from this type of operation.

I towed for years and never paid a dime for anything. (I actually made $25/hr and had free access to the airplanes whenever I wanted)

Keep us posted and please report that you were able to talk him out of this. I hate that our industry is so full of d0ucheb@gs that try to do this to people.

 

[BHS]

SVCTA is correct, I flew for a great guy out of Chicago area for 3 years. Built alot of time, airplanes at my disposal when available, $15.00 a tow, $15.00 an hour,extra for helping the ground crew with the signs and setting up as well. I paid for nothing and had alot of fun doing it.
Run away on your feet, don't walk away on your knees as previously closely stated.

 

[Bus-Driver]

Thanks guys. What you are saying is exactly what I expected from these operations (I've been around for a little while and seen alot of BS companies) but having some people with first hand experience will help me talk a low time out of work flight instructor into doing something not too stupid. Thanks again, exactly what I was looking for.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Repeat after me:

DON'T PAY FOR TRAINING

DON'T PAY FOR TRAINING

DON'T PAY FOR TRAINING

Use a ball-peen hammer for reinforcement.

CE

 

[mcjohn]

These companies don't charge for banner tow training. You need your own tailwheel endorsement in advance:

Paramount Air Service in NJ
High Exposure in NJ and elsewhere
Van Wagner at HWO and elsewhere

Check out companies up the eastern seaboard VA MD and NJ. SC to FL are where you usually find the shady PFT deals.

 

[yellow]

Dont count barnstormers out!

I worked for Sky Signs in 06' and logged over 700 hours in a supercub and enjoyed every minute of it and would not give up that experience for anything. I paid 2000 for my training then. 3500 sounds a little steep but fuel and insurance costs have risen. With sky signs gone now and barnstormers doing all the advertising this investment will pay off. 700 hours times 12-15 an hour =$8400-10500. with a net of 4900-7000 for 3 1/2 months flying. This equals 1428-2000 a month to fly your tail off learn a sh--load about real flying and having fun in a beautiful environment surrounded with a bunch of guys having a great time. I don't care what anyone says about banner towing and how dangerous it is yada yada yada. Flying is dangerous---get over it. Be smart, don't take risks and it can be just as safe as driving to the grocery store. I fly in the bush Alaska now and have been able to apply a lot of technique and lessons learned from banner towing that just could not have been possible if I wasted my time --not flying---- as a flight instructor.

 

[kingairyahoo]

...anyone else smell an open cam-o-worms?

 

[Capt10Matt]

I worked for Sky Signs in 06' and logged over 700 hours in a supercub and enjoyed every minute of it and would not give up that experience for anything. I paid 2000 for my training then. 3500 sounds a little steep but fuel and insurance costs have risen. With sky signs gone now and barnstormers doing all the advertising this investment will pay off. 700 hours times 12-15 an hour =$8400-10500. with a net of 4900-7000 for 3 1/2 months flying. This equals 1428-2000 a month to fly your tail off learn a sh--load about real flying and having fun in a beautiful environment surrounded with a bunch of guys having a great time. I don't care what anyone says about banner towing and how dangerous it is yada yada yada. Flying is dangerous---get over it. Be smart, don't take risks and it can be just as safe as driving to the grocery store. I fly in the bush Alaska now and have been able to apply a lot of technique and lessons learned from banner towing that just could not have been possible if I wasted my time --not flying---- as a flight instructor.

Yes and 700 hours divided by 3 and 1/2 months equals 200 hours per month....surely this must be part 91 since you're getting "paid" (sarcasm)...

 

[flyalot]

Pay for training at its best!

 

[yellow]

wait a minute

Yes and 700 hours divided by 3 and 1/2 months equals 200 hours per month....surely this must be part 91 since you're getting "paid" (sarcasm)...

Let me clear things up. At this operation you will log 40+ hours a week and you will get the hours you need to get a Job flying 135 or 121. I am sure there are a lot of scumbag operators out there that will swindle your money and leave you for broke without your hours. Do your homework and stay away from those. We must keep things in perspective here. We are talking about paying for 25 hours of training--picking up and dropping banners---in a supercub or pa-12. This is time that their insurance company requires. Barnstormers and Skysigns had to instill some kind of incentive(money) for the individual interested in doing this kind of work and staying. Without this incentive to work there are many scumbag pilots who would take their hours and walk, thus forfeiting any profit the operator may have seen. We are talking about a small time operator that is doing what it needs to do to train people and have them stick around. We are not talking about paying an airline to be an FO. Long live sky 11.

 

[flyalot]

25 hours flying dual while the company is making money off the sign behind. Is this what your saying?

 

[yellow]

25 hours flying dual while the company is making money off the sign behind. Is this what your saying?

The 25 hours is training time with no revenue during that time. It is just takeoffs and landings, practice swinging a hook and then practice pickups and drops.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

It took me 3 hours of pickups and drops and 2 more of dual towing. 25 hours? what the hell are they doing for the other 20?

Scam? you bet.

CE