Latest on JBPA and bandofblue

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Any polling done on dedicated message boards? Is JBPA making its case? What about bandofblue?

Thanks for the update.....

 

[Mad-dasher]

The boobs are playing pocket pool while JBPA is running circles around them with their undeniably superior grasp of the issues Jetblue line pilots face!

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

And JBPA will do all this with what money? No one has said how much this will cost to start-- just 1% dues, yeah to maintain our JBPA but what about start-up costs? No mention whatsever... By the time all is said and done, when we start with a new contract from scratch, yes that means we give everything up we have now-- not just improving on what we have currently like JBPA says, in 1-2 years we will have our first contract; during which time nothing will change... and it will look very similar to what we have now, but yeah, with one voice, and STRONG language for M/A!!! Yeah, that helped TWA, ATA, Midwest, and on and on whoowhooo!!! Meanwhile, we'll have to wait until our next contract comes to fruition, to actually get something close to what we really want-- and we all know how long that will take, 5-8 years!!! Oh, I've also heard that maybe we'll give up our E-190 flying to Air Wisconsin or Republic, eliminating about 500 pilot jobs... Wonder what our dues will be to support JBPA then???

 

[House_X]

Let's see...give the E190 flying to the Regionals, furloughs, shutdowns, mergers, buy-outs, asteroids falling from outerspace on T5, etc, then we better get a contract ASAP. Having a contract does not cause companies to screw over pilots.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Me thinking it's going to fail big time.

They've run a poll on bluepilots.com and gotten about 200 pro votes each time. Not promising.

 

[Mad-dasher]

Without a CBA we are in for 5-8 years of the company giving us just enough to not vote again. What do you think just enough will be? Certainly not average pay, benefits, workrules, or retirement. Wake up Blue Bayou! There's a lot to be said for negotiating what you get verses hoping you get something at all.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

The problem is the timing. If the economy and financial institutions and the job market wasn't so dismal-- JBPA would've had a chance. Pilots aren't stupid, we'd all love great paychecks, benefits and work rules-- but it don't mean frac unless you have a job!!! When Feb 3 rolls around and JBPA doesn't pass, the company will still have a looming prospect of a union if glaring problems here aren't addressed soon. I don't think an in-house union that has to be started from scratch with little available funds was the correct avenue for representation. An ALPA, god forbid me for saying this, would've been a quicker and more viable option.

I'm not for a bunch of newbies who'll slip up our first contract that'll last 3-5 years; then have to wait that amount of time plus 3 years (the average so far for contract negotiations AAI, AMR, CAL, SWA) to get things fixed!!!

And again, no one at JBPA has addressed the fact that our first contract will be from scratch and that everything we have now will be dissolved and negotiated for again!!! SO the fact remains, we could actually come up with less than what we have now if the economic conditions remain in place. So how many people would like to see a reduction in pay for the first time to get our first CBA in place?

 

[Mad-dasher]

A reduction in pay is just a crap statement. The pilot group will have to vote on a new contract. Do you really think our pilot group will approve anything less than what we have now? As for now not being the right time, I say you are dead wrong. Now is the perfect time. By the time we get JBPA certified and running strong the economy will be strong and the company will be strong and making money. We want to be ready for the good times not trying to organize during the good times. The hard work needs to be done now!

 

[AA717driver]

I'm not for a bunch of newbies who'll slip up our first contract that'll last 3-5 years

Considering many of the pilots at JB are refugees from other (read: Legacy) airlines, I'd be hesitant to call them "newbies".

Why do you think they won't touch ALPA? Experience, maybe? ALPA carriers have fared worse than the non-union/independent carriers since 2000. Maybe it's the market but that is a fact.

At least with an independent union, your dues stay at YOUR airline, not finance a sweet contract for Delta (just an example so save it, double-breasters...).

I know APA is pissing away my dues but at least they're wasting my money on APA politic...er, I mean APA pilots.

TC

 

[B6Busdriver]

Me thinking it's going to fail big time.

Let me run you through a possible scenario:

Let's say you bend metal in poor weather conditions.
Who will be at your side...the PVC?
During this incident you get hurt and go on OJI.
Now you get a fraction of what you make until 3 months pass by...but you can supplement it with your own PTO (accrued for sick time,vacation,and personal time).
Now you've been out for 6 months and you start paying COBRA.
Now you are on long term disability which is TAXED.
Meanwhile the FEDS are investigating you, will the company back you?
At 18 months you are still out on Medical and you lose your health insurance entirely.

We have some of the worst pay and benefits in the industry. I'm voting yes!

 

[Mad-dasher]

Another reason for JBPA. We are the 6th major airline and the only one without a Union. The 5 airlines above us have better pay, benefits, work rules, and retirement. Their company did not just give those things to them, did they?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Me thinking it's going to fail big time.

They've run a poll on bluepilots.com and gotten about 200 pro votes each time. Not promising.

I'm not on bp.com.

@1000 sent in cards, so we'll see.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Let me run you through a possible scenario:

Let's say you bend metal in poor weather conditions.
Who will be at your side...the PVC?
During this incident you get hurt and go on OJI.
Now you get a fraction of what you make until 3 months pass by...but you can supplement it with your own PTO (accrued for sick time,vacation,and personal time).
Now you've been out for 6 months and you start paying COBRA.
Now you are on long term disability which is TAXED.
Meanwhile the FEDS are investigating you, will the company back you?
At 18 months you are still out on Medical and you lose your health insurance entirely.

We have some of the worst pay and benefits in the industry. I'm voting yes!

1. I'd rather have the PVC and JetBlue's legal department backing me than a couple guys operating out of their garage in FL. JetBlue is required (per our contract) to represent you or pay for an attorney of your choosing. Who do you think has deeper pockets?

2. I agree with your assessment that benefits and salary need to improve. However, you're selling a load of bull crap in saying that JBPA=those improvements. It doesn't. We are just as likely, in my opinion, to accomplish those things using our current structure than we are turning things over a couple guys in their garage. Plus, I save the dues money.

Good luck.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

I'm not on bp.com.

@1000 sent in cards, so we'll see.

Why do you think they got 1,000 cards? They refuse to say.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Another reason for JBPA. We are the 6th major airline and the only one without a Union. The 5 airlines above us have better pay, benefits, work rules, and retirement. Their company did not just give those things to them, did they?

JB's 12 year 320 rate is $148
United's is $136
USAIR/west is $138
USAIR east is $125

Plus JB pays 150% above 70 hours, so it's $222/hr above that.

 

[nimtz]

JB's 12 year 320 rate is $148
United's is $136
USAIR/west is $138
USAIR east is $125

Plus JB pays 150% above 70 hours, so it's $222/hr above that.

How many active line pilots are on that 12 year pay scale exactly? :erm:
Amazing how the blue aid never wears off some guys...

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

How many active line pilots are on that 12 year pay scale exactly? :erm:
Amazing how the blue aid never wears off some guys...

How many pilots does UAL have on furlough?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Why do you think they got 1,000 cards? They refuse to say.

I know.

They didn't file with 35%.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

I know.

They didn't file with 35%.

Did they file with 36% ?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Did they file with 36% ?

You nailed it!

Don't tell anyone ...

 

[B6Busdriver]

1. I'd rather have the PVC and JetBlue's legal department backing me than a couple guys operating out of their garage in FL. JetBlue is required (per our contract) to represent you or pay for an attorney of your choosing. Who do you think has deeper pockets?

2. I agree with your assessment that benefits and salary need to improve. However, you're selling a load of bull crap in saying that JBPA=those improvements. It doesn't. We are just as likely, in my opinion, to accomplish those things using our current structure than we are turning things over a couple guys in their garage. Plus, I save the dues money.

Good luck.

Yeah let's keep status quo and count on management goodwill to fix things. They have had their chance, it's time to take matters into our own hands.

 

[ualdriver]

JB's 12 year 320 rate is $148
United's is $136
USAIR/west is $138
USAIR east is $125

Plus JB pays 150% above 70 hours, so it's $222/hr above that.

For UAL, did you factor in our 16% B&C fund contribution that is tax deferred? Did you factor in how much I (as a UAL pilot) pay for GOOD health insurance ($0/month)? Did you factor in how much I pay for short and long term disability ($0/month) and the $100's of dollars per month one would have to pay for the same policies?

Why were CAL, AMR, and the new DAL left out of the equation? They don't all fly A320's but certainly you can find aircraft of similar size to make the comparison? Why didn't you compare JB's E190 rates (100 seat aircraft) to other 737 operators? None of those operators are required to clean cabins, nor are they going to go out of their way to try to unilaterally change the FAR's. That's got to be worth something, no?

Good luck to the JBPA guys.

 

[FADEC]

For UAL, did you factor in our 16% B&C fund contribution that is tax deferred? Did you factor in how much I (as a UAL pilot) pay for GOOD health insurance ($0/month)? Did you factor in how much I pay for short and long term disability ($0/month) and the $100's of dollars per month one would have to pay for the same policies?

Why were CAL, AMR, and the new DAL left out of the equation? They don't all fly A320's but certainly you can find aircraft of similar size to make the comparison? Why didn't you compare JB's E190 rates (100 seat aircraft) to other 737 operators? None of those operators are required to clean cabins, nor are they going to go out of their way to try to unilaterally change the FAR's. That's got to be worth something, no?

Good luck to the JBPA guys.

I agree with much of what you say however I just want to get something straight. As a B6 pilot I am not required to clean cabins and I don't. You are more than welcome to believe whatever you want.

 

[ualdriver]

I agree with much of what you say however I just want to get something straight. As a B6 pilot I am not required to clean cabins and I don't.

I believe you if that's the way it is now. Obviously you work there and I don't!
However, I would suspect that if one said that they weren't going to clean the cabin during a JB interview, said interview would not have gone very well as that person would not have been construed as a "team player." Further, I would guess that back in the early 00's when JB was booming and everyone was happy to work for low wages and a quick upgrade, if a pilot chose not to clean the cabin that would be viewed very negatively by most of your co-workers. Am I wrong?

 

[banger]

Fadec is correct. Nobody is required to clean. I personally never clean. And you might be correct that if a candidate did come out and volunteer that he would never clean it might be an interview ender. However I also told Fedex I would love to be a cargo guy and SWA that pay was not the most important thing to me and DAL that ATL is where I would like to be based and I got a class date at those airlines.

 

[B6Busdriver]

For UAL, did you factor in our 16% B&C fund contribution that is tax deferred? Did you factor in how much I (as a UAL pilot) pay for GOOD health insurance ($0/month)? Did you factor in how much I pay for short and long term disability ($0/month) and the $100's of dollars per month one would have to pay for the same policies?

Why were CAL, AMR, and the new DAL left out of the equation? They don't all fly A320's but certainly you can find aircraft of similar size to make the comparison? Why didn't you compare JB's E190 rates (100 seat aircraft) to other 737 operators? None of those operators are required to clean cabins, nor are they going to go out of their way to try to unilaterally change the FAR's. That's got to be worth something, no?

Good luck to the JBPA guys.

Don't confuse these juicers with facts. They know in their hearts management will take care of them!

 

[AKAAB]

Me thinking it's going to fail big time.

They've run a poll on bluepilots.com and gotten about 200 pro votes each time. Not promising.

Tell the rest of the story. The yes votes on BP.com have consistently been over 70%. I don't think the actual vote will be that high, but the unscientific polls on the board have been pretty telling.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Without a CBA we are in for 5-8 years of the company giving us just enough to not vote again. What do you think just enough will be? Certainly not average pay, benefits, workrules, or retirement. Wake up Blue Bayou! There's a lot to be said for negotiating what you get verses hoping you get something at all.

And at every major airline flying is outsourced-- don't believe for a moment that management won't consider giving our 190s to another carrier to fly after dissolving 500 pilot jobs due to this economic mess. It's been done before, and it could happen again. You'd be giving them carte blanche to do what it would take to keep this company viable-- including a concessionary contract on our first CBA... Yeah we don't have to vote yes for it, but how long are we going to be willing to wait for one? Meanwhile, nothing will change here during that process!!! Then JBPA will be thumping their chests in victory, saying how great it is to have "one voice" in our airline-- great!!! Thanks for nothing, and oh by the way JBPA, what are the start-up costs going to be, certainly not enough with just 1% of my pay the first few months as they try to get our first CBA hammered out... How long are their lawyers going to work pro-bono? So please, tell me how much is going to come out of my pocket for this great insurance policy!!! What if 100-200 pilots decide not to become JBPA members, can JBPA afford life on 1%?

 

[FADEC]

I believe you if that's the way it is now. Obviously you work there and I don't!
However, I would suspect that if one said that they weren't going to clean the cabin during a JB interview, said interview would not have gone very well as that person would not have been construed as a "team player." Further, I would guess that back in the early 00's when JB was booming and everyone was happy to work for low wages and a quick upgrade, if a pilot chose not to clean the cabin that would be viewed very negatively by most of your co-workers. Am I wrong?

What would you have said during your United interview if the same cabin cleaning question came up. And just for the record that question was never asked.I've been at JetBlue for 4 years now. Luckily I'm in the left seat of the E190. Life could be worse I could have been hired by United and where would I be now!!!

 

[Truckdriver]

JB's 12 year 320 rate is $148
United's is $136
USAIR/west is $138
USAIR east is $125

Plus JB pays 150% above 70 hours, so it's $222/hr above that.

How's the FO pay for those FO's that won't upgrade on the 320 for about 20 years?

I was there and my 2nd year FO pay at Delta on the lowest paying aircraft is better than 4th year FO pay on the 320. If I lose my medical I'll get 100% of my pay until I'm 65 and pay about $20/mo for that. Good medical. Good retirement. Good work rules. Most FO's are gonna vote for JBPA.