I'm Back, no college degree required

[pilotyip]

The doc says the cuts on my wrists have healed enought that I can start typing again. (only kidding)
Let me give you the background on the college degree thing. I do not judge a man by his degree, where he lives, or what he does for a living. I judge a man on the content of his character. I find the college degrees only crowd here, a bit arrogant, a smacking of if you do not have a degree you are not as good as me. I know too many people who are successful and fine men who do not have a degrees, I know many people with degrees who will never make any impact upon anything. I know too many pilots without degrees who I consider some of the most successful people I know I admire them and the lives they have built. So I bait, about the non-importance of the college degree in this business. I think this sets off the college degree only crowd because it distorts their view of what they have done. It has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Secondarily my pilot heroes did not have college degrees and they performed feats that would test the metal of anyone. They flew in WWII, George Bush I in the Pacific, the 10,000’s of B-17 and B-24 pilots in Europe, and the C-46 pilots over the hump in China. I meet these guys on the air show circuit, they come to see the C-47 and B-17, and I ask them about their adventures during the war. I am in awe of what they did. How can anyone say these guys without degrees were not as good as today’s degreed pilots?

 

[328dude]

Ok, I agree wit what you said, but is there a question in there or are you just stating what most of us believe?

 

[xkuzme1]

...

Most of the time the knowledge that accompanies a degree (undergrad) is nominal. You could learn the same thing from a few hours of watching history and science channel.

But a degree opens doors. Your hero's lived during a time when the locks on the doors required less keys. I have flown in some of the meanest crap you'd ever what to fly in. Single pilot 135 in the midwest, middle of the night, ice, snow, 50,000' thunderstorms. At the time I had no degree. I was at the top of my game. Now some years later, I am an airline Captain and I dont feel like half the pilot I used to be back then.

Cheers.

X

 

[J.Otto]

.............

 

[cynic]

See http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/education/phct41.html

Between 1940 and 1950 about 30% of the us population had a high school degree. Thus with no college and just a diploma you were in the upper 30 percentile of the country; with respect to education. Having a college degree would have put you in the top 5%.

Today (well 2000 is the last year shown) more than 80% of the country has a high school diploma while about 24% has a college degree.

Thus.... Having a college degree today would put you in about the same statistical spot as a high school diploma when those good old WWII pilots were flying around. Guess how many of them had no high school diploma?

Disdain for education is ignorant. Is that sentence superfluously redundant?

Not everyone that has a college degree is smart and there are people with no college degree that are smarter than average. Every person with a college degree can start and complete a college program. That does say something.

Maybe you are rite and we dont need none of that thar fancy book learnin. The good lord and my momma taought me all I need to know.

 

[LivestockTony]

Using the census figures provided above, for males aged 25-29 the HS diploma rate raises to 50.6% by 1950. It becomes 70% by 1970, when airlines were hiring ab-inito w/o a degree. Since that's the pool pilotyip is talking about, I think you're overstating the case. Either piloting aircraft became easier in the interim, or perhaps professional flying requires developed judgement and a skill set that does not correlate well with academic learning. It might be interesting to drill the statistics more deeply..

The 25yr and older figures which you reference are driven low by a large portion of the older people not having HS diplomas-- and heck, both Glenn Curtiss and the Wright brothers had 8th grade educations.

Disdain for education is ignorant. Is that senence superfluously redundant?

No-- 1 verb, 1 noun, and 1 adjective... how would you convey the sentiment by removing anything? Thus no redundency.. and pedantry is silly.

-TF

 

[avbug]

Yip,

This missionary effort of yours to downplay or disparage education was old and misplaced long ago, and it's been your trumpeting call for far too long.

Not long ago you combined it with loud cries of a pilot shortage. You proclaimed that pilots don't need, and shouldn't get a degree; you advocated bypassing a college education in favor of flight hours, especially in light of the coming pilot shortage. Moreover, you held up USA Jet as the prime example of a place where one could get ahead in this ever expanding avaition world, without a degree.

Here you sit, as one of the prime figures at USA Jet, yourself unceremoniously tossed out along with everyone else. The pilot shortage that never existed is now clearly a fallacy...and best of all, you hold a masters degree. That's right...you, the missionary of ignorance, the professor of anti-education, holds not only a 4 year degree, but a masters degree, to boot.

Stop the flame bait, stop the sham.

Especially in the present climate, there's every reason in the world for an aspiring individual, even a pilot, to seek a degree.

Forget singing songs of the post WWII era. This is NOT it. It's a different time, and a different place, and a different industry.

A college degree is still a valuable asset.

I have no degree. I'd be more marketable with one. I'd probably have gone much farther much earlier, had I undertaken the effort to obtain a degree. Instead, I sought flight experience, took my first commercial job when I left high school, and have been working as a pilot and aircraft mechanic ever since.

I lack a degree. I am educated. There's a difference. We all get that; or should. However, this is a cause for you. You can't leave it alone, and it's long since become old and stale. You pass on bad counsel and bad advice when you tell the unwashed masses to forsake a degree in favor of flight hours. You're wrong.

A degree does not a pilot make, true enough. A degree does make a pilot more marketable, and more competitive. It provides other avenues of income, another trade. It provides choices, opportunity. It enhances, and uplifts, if one makes the effort, and it opens doors.

You can't really speak to the glories of having no degree and the uplifting effect it has on one's career...because you have two degrees. You don't have a leg to stand upon...telling others to forsake a degree, but holding college degrees yourself. I do, however...I am in the position to judge, not having one myself...and I'll be the first to tell others to go get that degree.

Forget your emotional appeals to eras past. Forget the window dressing. If you had counsel that might uplift and help another, it might be worth a dime to listen...but your counsel can only hurt, and doesn't offer truth or sense. You need to stop spreading these tired, false ideas. Enough is enough.

 

[Way2Broke]

I agree that a degree does not make one a better pilot typically, but HR departments disagree with us because most of them are not pilots. Here is the problem, if the person holding the key to your success (HR departments) only know one thing, sometime we are forced to adapt to their views.

This is exactly why after 3000 hours of flight experience I am a Junior in College. Most of the time I enjoy taking the classes, which is not something I would have said when I was 18. So I figure if I enjoy it, and it might help me down the road, why not go for it?

 

[pilotyip]

Yip,

Stop the flame bait, stop the sham.

I lack a degree. I am educated.
.

Good to be back and hear the words of wisdom. There are many out there who have degree but are not educated and have no marketable skills. BTW I have nothing against a college degree, it just has nothing to do with flying an airplane and the reason a dergee makes you more marketable is becasue most HR types have degrees and they tend to look down on those who they thing are not as good as them.

 

[avbug]

Good to be back and hear the words of wisdom. There are many out there who have degree but are not educated and have no marketable skills. BTW I have nothing against a college degree, it just has nothing to do with flying an airplane and the reason a dergee makes you more marketable is becasue most HR types have degrees and they tend to look down on those who they thing are not as good as them.

My friend, I agree with you 100% on that. Education doesn't necessary correlate to a degree any more than hours and experience are tied. They're not.

I do think that everyone, given the opportunity, should seek a degree if they can. A degree of it's own accord confers nothing more than accreditation; it's paper and documentation. A degree based on the hard effort of the bearer, on the other hand is a record not only of effort bu accomplishment, and can serve as the basis of greater things to come.

For the one who lacks such credentials, it's a much steeper climb.

 

[328dude]

My friend, I agree with you 100% on that. Education doesn't necessary correlate to a degree any more than hours and experience are tied. They're not.

I do think that everyone, given the opportunity, should seek a degree if they can. A degree of it's own accord confers nothing more than accreditation; it's paper and documentation. A degree based on the hard effort of the bearer, on the other hand is a record not only of effort bu accomplishment, and can serve as the basis of greater things to come.

For the one who lacks such credentials, it's a much steeper climb.

I'll agree with that Av. I flew night freight in MU-2's, flew for the regionals for 6 years and then went to SWA, all wihout a degree. HR folks didn't seem to care, as other areas of ones resume is not dependent on just having a degree. However, for my own satisfastion, I did obtain the mighty BS degree online, but only for the purpose of self gratification, nothing else. Did I need it? Nope. Does it make me a better pilot? Nope. Do I regret paying for it? Nope.

The list goes on, but it does not truly define one's character in itself.

 

[USA Jet Pilot]

Ah yes the infamous degree battle, well there is more to this story. The fact that Pilot Yips son has made it into USA Jet management with out a degree is the whole reasoning behind this charade. With a degree you have opportunities beyond the cockpit, with out a degree you are more likely chasing jobs from cockpit to cockpit. I know that most people with degrees end up working in fields that have nothing to do with their respective degree. A degree plays a part in social interfunction and understanding certain aspects of social interaction. It has nothing to do with being a pilot and or your flying skills, but it has everything to with being terminated in an economy such as ours. Which is why I am happy to have earned a BS degree for situations such as this. The mass incompentance of CH!

 

[Amish RakeFight]

What Avbug said, X's 2.

Can't add much more than what he stated.

 

[say again]

A degree doesn't make one a better pilot, a smarter person, etc. The degree requirement is there to dwindle down the number of applicants, an easy way to shorten the stack of resumes.

 

[pilotyip]

So What?

Ah yes the infamous degree battle, well there is more to this story. The fact that Pilot Yips son has made it into USA Jet management with out a degree is the whole reasoning behind this charade. With a degree you have opportunities beyond the cockpit, with out a degree you are more likely chasing jobs from cockpit to cockpit. I know that most people with degrees end up working in fields that have nothing to do with their respective degree. A degree plays a part in social interfunction and understanding certain aspects of social interaction. It has nothing to do with being a pilot and or your flying skills, but it has everything to with being terminated in an economy such as ours. Which is why I am happy to have earned a BS degree for situations such as this. The mass incompentance of CH!

My son, who I taught to fly in high school, graduated from one of the top prep schools in the Detroit area. He had a Navy ROTC scholarship to the U of Airz, dropped out after his first year cause he said college is a waste of time. He wanted to fly. He joined the Army and flew for 11 years helo and fixed wing. His last assignment was at a C-12 YIP transport company with worldwide assignments. I talked him out of going to Net Jets where he had a job offer, because we were desperate for Captains and he would be making twice as much as USA Jet DA-20 Captain than he would as a NJ F/O. Plus I would have my grandkids in the back yard. For that I am truly grateful. I may have made a mistake doing that, for he has lived under my precived shadow since he came to USA Jet, it does not matter that he did it on his own. For that I am sorry. He came to USA Jet and became a DC-9 Captain in four years, which was a longer time than many of the pilots hired at the same time he was, such as Goose. He is now the Chief Pilot for a Gov’t operation. He has raised three fantastic children, who are all going to college, unless my grandson gets into the Trade School then he also will skip college. No person could be more proud of his or her child than I am. Also all of his cousins have college degrees, most still live at home in their late 20's Their degrees in Art, Photography, History, and French have done nothing to enable them to earn a living beyond Starbucks, Barnes and Noble, etc. Marketable skills are the key to succession life, and college and marketable skills are not necessarily the same. I know too many successful people I admire who do not have degrees and I know many that I consider failure who have degrees. . It seems the people at this site believe all non-degreed people are losers and degreed people are superior. BTW most of the people on this site so narrow minded they cannot stand someone having a different option that they do, so I am unfairly beat up because of my beliefs. BTW A degree plays a part in social interfunction and understanding certain aspects of social interaction. You don't think you can develope these skills in other social settings such as an Officer in the military?

 

[Buckeye]

Oh this is getting good. I think I will put some popcorn on and see what happens. JUS pilot is bitter, I don't think he could get another flying job.

 

[pilotyip]

make it micro-wave, you won't have to wait so long then

 

[avbug]

It seems the people at this site believe all non-degreed people are losers and degreed people are superior. BTW most of the people on this site so narrow minded they cannot stand someone having a different option that they do, so I am unfairly beat up because of my beliefs. BTW A degree plays a part in social interfunction and understanding certain aspects of social interaction. You don't think you can develope these skills in other social settings such as an Officer in the military?

Yip, seeing as you hold advanced degrees, you really have no place to talk.

I certainly don't believe that individuals who don't hold a degree are "losers." I don't believe individuals with degrees are "superior."

Then again, where you don't have a leg to stand on with respect to the matter, I do. How ironic is that?

As far as becoming an officer in the military...generally speaking...that requires a degree.

Let's not forget that the "trade school" of which you speak, into which your grandson hopes to go...is a military academy...to get a degree.

Time to call a spade, a spade. The only problem for you, in your crusade, is that you really have no right to talk. After all...you hold a degree.

 

[AC560]

It seems the people at this site believe all non-degreed people are losers and degreed people are superior. BTW most of the people on this site so narrow minded they cannot stand someone having a different option that they do, so I am unfairly beat up because of my beliefs.

No most people on this forum disagree with you counseling people to forgo getting a degree. I can't think of a single incident where somebody has shown disdain for people without degrees. If anything you seem to be the one with a disdian for people with degrees. For the record I never attended college.

You don't think you can develope these skills in other social settings such as an Officer in the military?

Somebody can correct me on this but I believe you need a degree to be an officer in the military these days.

 

[pilotyip]

It has been posted that I am anti-college degree. Nothing cold is further from the truth. The country needs all the college-educated citizens it can have, its raises the level of knowledge to keep this as the greatest country in the world. Real degrees in business, engineering, the sciences, math, and medicine provide a graduate with marketable skills. If you are going to go to college, get a real degree from a real university. Do not spend four years getting a degree in Women’s Studies. The college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Many have posted they agree it has nothing to do with the mastering on an airplane. I have admitted that the possession of a degree may open doors at a few select places of employment in the airline industry. If a potential pilot feels they will only be pleased in life if they get an interview with FedEx, then that prospective pilot should go to college. If a prospective pilots just loves flying airplanes, and would be happy making $70-$100K per year with no debt from college loans, a college degree is not necessary. Many prospective pilots may be steered into attending college when they are not college material, not because of a lack basic intelligence, but because it is not important to them. These pilots want to get on with their lives flying airplanes. I have seen too many non-degreed pilots reach a good career position with out a degree. But then my focus is on job satisfaction and not upon pay, respect, and prestige. It is about the joy of flying an airplane. Others out there may feel the same motivation I do. My advice is go to school part time or community college and fly, pilots get hired because they have flight time. Flt time moves you up the food chain to better jobs; the degree is not needed until the last step. You can go to school part time with a full time flying job, you cannot build real flight time while going to school full time. I have seen non-degreed guys go to the Nationals in their mid-20’s.