NTSB: Both engines lost power

[Crzipilot]

Twist of the story, NTSB has acknowledged there was a compressor stall on aircraft 2 days prior. It was written up in the log book, and they were interested in talking to the crew of that flight. Also in the briefing First stage fan blades intact on number 2 engine. Some damage/debris on nosecone.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I imagine that 40k pay cut your talking about is your upgrade?

Downgrade after 6 years as Capt., but thanks for the concern.

I'm still at a loss to explain to my non-pilot friends why I'm paying the price for another groups blatant disregard for their obligations under binding arbitration.

The "Something is better than nothing" sentiment made by someone else is not lost on me either, having been through the "nothing" part before. The point is, the root cause is largely the same for both their furloughs and my downgrade - Bradford and every east pilot that supports him have had unrestricted ability to deny the implementation of a legitimate seniority list that would have protected our jobs.

I find it impossible to feign friendship with a group of pilots who know that what they are doing is wrong, yet continue to do so as long as no one compels them to do otherwise.

 

[Crzipilot]

Ok....even with the NIC as being the working seniority agreement, there would still have had to be a joint contract. I would say the west took a step backwards, with their attempted punishment of not agreeing to equal pay. Without such a joint contract, the airlines would still be seperate. Hence flying pulled down out of PHX and LAS would have resulted in maybe more than what you have experienced. I do recall seeing in some company update, that there hadn't been time moved to the east, that in actuality the west had a slight increase in time than what was planned. Not sure of the exact timeing of this statement, but it was sometime last year.

Without the merger do you think that the west would not have suffered the same circumstances. Two hubs, largely pleasure travel, would these have not been affected by the recent turn of events???/
No....I understand, it's all the fault of the pilots on the east, all of it......

 

[Bringupthebird]

Not necessarily. According to Hemenway's letter concerning the acceptance of the Nicoalu list, all that was necessary was the completion of contract negotiations. That could mean an impass, mediation, being parked by the NMB, any of a number of instances where negotiations had been concluded, but a vote not taken or the contract ratified.

With the Nic list implemented, there would be no east-west drawdown, only a headcount reduction and folks going where their seniority could hold.

With USAPA giving away portions of the west contract, it would not surprise me at all to see them negotiate with the company to lower the minimum fleet levels if they thought they could by their DOH list with it.

The east clearly proved that their word was no good and that they couldn't be trusted to live up to their agreements, thus the west was more than a little reluctant to support such people. Instead of trying to mend fences with the west, they started a new union since it was the only way they thought they could ignore the group they stabbed in the back.

I am fervently hoping that justice will be swift, sure and severe and that all of those who supported this ill-conceived cabal will apologize to the west for the damage they have inflicted.

There are far more who are willing to forgive than those willing to forget.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Downgrade after 6 years as Capt., but thanks for the concern.

I'm still at a loss to explain to my non-pilot friends why I'm paying the price for another groups blatant disregard for their obligations under binding arbitration.

So glad to read about your down grade. Next time you are at dinner with your non-pilot friends explaining why you lost your captain seat, don't forget to tell them you supported the age 65 change. Tell your guests you supported preventing retirements so you could work an extra five years at the expense of the next generation of pilots. Tell them your selfishness and support prevented the advantages the previous generation of pilots benefited from in their careers and your glad age 65 happened.

Age 65 support has delivered what you deserve. I am so glad to read you got burnt by your stupidity and are suffering the consequences of it. I hope you medical out in your late 50's.

 

[b707guy]

ALLLLLLRighty then!

Any more info on the reports of compressor stalls days before the ditching?

It's amazing reading the comments of various knuckleheads in some of the links (TMZ, etc...) who either know nothing of aviation or are so embittered by some past experience that they'll say anything to make themselves feel better, or worse, try to make someone look bad.

 

[Captzaahlie]

So glad to read about your down grade. Next time you are at dinner with your non-pilot friends explaining why you lost your captain seat, don't forget to tell them you supported the age 65 change. Tell your guests you supported preventing retirements so you could work an extra five years at the expense of the next generation of pilots. Tell them your selfishness and support prevented the advantages the previous generation of pilots benefited from in their careers and your glad age 65 happened.

Age 65 support has delivered what you deserve. I am so glad to read you got burnt by your stupidity and are suffering the consequences of it. I hope you medical out in your late 50's.

Hey lucky go "f" yourself.... I'm not that old and I'm not that young, but if I can fly an extra 5 years I'm all for it just because I enjoy it......... now go find yerself some cheeze wiz to go with that wine, OK?

You get to fly another 5 years too if you like.. so you are not getting the short end of the stick!


(this message courtesy of Goslings Black Seal 80 proof Bremuda Black Rum...since 1806)

 

[Captzaahlie]

ALLLLLLRighty then!

Any more info on the reports of compressor stalls days before the ditching?

It's amazing reading the comments of various knuckleheads in some of the links (TMZ, etc...) who either know nothing of aviation or are so embittered by some past experience that they'll say anything to make themselves feel better, or worse, try to make someone look bad.

thingz been really tight lipped about that info.... makes ya wanna go "HMMMMMM?"

 

[Whataburger]

Whats up?

This message brought to you by Coors Light. Rockin' the Rockies since the 1900s or sometime around then.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Whats up?

This message brought to you by Coors Light. Rockin' the Rockies since the 1900s or sometime around then.

:beer:


they are on me burger.....when Miss ll comes around and realizes what a wonderfull guy I am, prob. in 2017.....

good thing I'm so patient!

 

[b707guy]

I'm not that old and I'm not that young,

But will you be too old when 2017 comes rolling around?

I've heard one report that some bird remains were found in one engine, I presume the one that was still attached, and also that the other engine has been recovered.

I was concerned that any evidence of bird ingestion may have been washed off by the time any analysis could be started - a strange thing to hope for I guess, but hopefully, they'll find some goose chunks in the left engine as well. Should stave off at least a good percentage of the suit-happy among those involved.

At the same time, I'm sure at least some of those $5k checks will go uncashed for a little while...

 

[B-atch]

never mind.......

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I think any decomposition remaining from the detached engine should still be able to yield some pheasant DNA trapped inside the stages or core.

 

[JumpersAway]

Wow- USAirways truly is amazing. Even in the midst of a crash that highlighted the true professionalism and skill demanded by this profession, you guys still managed to squeez in the obligatory USAPA-East-West garbage. Can it not be put to rest for a single USAirways post?

 

[ultrarunner]

Very interesting. The story contends that this same ship number returned to base as a result of repeated compressor stalls within 48 hours prior of the accident.

No it didn't! A PA was made which said they MIGHT need to land at the nearest airport, but they continued to CLT.

Move along now...

 

[Captzaahlie]

But will you be too old when 2017 comes rolling around?

I've heard one report that some bird remains were found in one engine, I presume the one that was still attached, and also that the other engine has been recovered.

I was concerned that any evidence of bird ingestion may have been washed off by the time any analysis could be started - a strange thing to hope for I guess, but hopefully, they'll find some goose chunks in the left engine as well. Should stave off at least a good percentage of the suit-happy among those involved.

At the same time, I'm sure at least some of those $5k checks will go uncashed for a little while...

I think the technology is there to determine how thick the bone was that scratched or bent an internal engine part. All they need is a smudge of bird residue (some thing lodged in a tight nook or cranny) and DNA will tell them what group of birds became ingested. Here's what I think it was:
http://www.zoomdinosaurs.com/subjects/dinosaurs/dinos/Quetzalcoatlus.shtml
It's wing-span was just under 36 feet wide (10.96 m). It was the largest flying animal ever found. It had hollow bones, was lightly built, and had a small body. Even though it was very big, it probably weighed only about 300 pounds (135 kg). It had toothless jaws and a long, thin beak. The neck was 10 feet (3 m) long. The legs were over 7 feet (2.1 m) in length, as was the long head.

Now that will stop an engine!

D[SIZE=+1]inosaurs worries aside , I find the previously reported compressor stalls (from another flt.) more concerning...
I hope that was all properly documented and addressed to a point where no correlation can be made with the Hudson River tour.

I'm sure the sharks are already circling in anticipation. [/SIZE]

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Heres an interesting question....If what now appears to be fact that "Birds" brought down this jet liner, wouldn't this be considered an "Act of God" occurrence, hence negating the possibilities of any law suits??....Just wandering????????????

I wonder if the FO's flying will come into judgment.

Perhaps they may speculate that the FO with only 35 hrs. in type, may have been more focused on properly flying the profile and DP and less on looking outside.

An interesting comment made by the FO and related by K. Higgins was that the FO's initial reaction was to "duck." She stated that he didn't but that's what one might do approaching a large flock of birds. Perhaps he either didn't have enough time to react, but they may question how much heads up he had during the departure and whether he may have had ample time to perform a mild evasive maneuver to avoid the birds. It's been stated somewhere that the birds were captured on the ATC radar. They may correlate their ability to have seen and reacted with the flocks proximity.

This may be a far stretch and moot, but just thought I'd mention it. A plane is a plane after all, especially with 20K.

 

[CWGrizwald]

"Duck"

So did he say "duck" as in "lower your head so it doesn't get taken off by this rapidly approaching object!" Or did he say "duck" as a generic term for waterfowl, because after all, saying "Look Captain, Branta Canadensis!" would have just sounded stupid.

 

[Crzipilot]

you got your story wrong. the capt said his reaction was to duck.

 

[b707guy]

[SIZE=+1]I find the previously reported compressor stalls (from another flt.) more concerning... [/SIZE]

Which is exactly why I hope the left engine got "goosed" as well. I do find it strange that in a two engine aircraft, a flight would be continued to destination following a compressor stall on departure. Of course, we don't know the flight conditions at the time, or what any corrective action might have been taken inflight or at CLT afterwards, but if the situation was properly written up and signed off, and especially since the aircraft apparently operated a few legs cleanly before the Hudson got involved, then USAirways as well as the crew of a few days before and Sully's crew should be cleared of anything bad. Hope so, anyway.

And Amish, I hope your point is moot as well, but you never know how things could get spun in cases like this. Some folks can't help but make up their own news if nothing real comes up to report on. I've hit plenty of birds over the years and only once did I have any time to react in such a way to keep from hitting that particular flock.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Wow- USAirways truly is amazing. Even in the midst of a crash that highlighted the true professionalism and skill demanded by this profession, you guys still managed to squeez in the obligatory USAPA-East-West garbage. Can it not be put to rest for a single USAirways post?

No I don't think it really is possible.

Amazingly it is the only thing some people can think of..... it's getting very old for me too.:smash:

Speaking of old.... still about a "Bakers Dozen" of years left from 2017 on for me b707guy.
I guess the flying dinosaurs distracted me from answering your question... and here I thought it was only my 5 year old that had a short attention span. I can see where he gets it from!:erm:

 

[BeCareful!]

Anyone who's been in this game for any length of time could have predicted a large LAS and PHX pull down in this economic climate. Pilots of the now defunct AWA know this in their hearts, but lack the class to acknowledge it. Without the merge, your downgrades and general woes would be much, much worse.

As for "honoring" ALPA's corrupt, inept handling of the merge, replete with deep seated conflicts of interest, none of you former AWA pilots would have done it either. If 2004 newhires at U had gone senior to your 1986 hires, you'd have gone completely ballistic. To try and claim differently flies in the face of all that we know to be true about pilots, and makes you look like the unseasoned, rookie, Mesa and TrannyStates pilots that you probably are.

ALPA is gone for good reasons here, and Nic is but one of them.

 

[ultrarunner]

ALPA is gone for good reasons here, and Nic is but one of them.

But Nic will eventually prevail wont it?

Or do you think USAPA will be successful in getting a federal judge to overturn the binding arbitration decision of the mutually agreed upon federal mediator?

I don't ask these questions to flame...they are valid questions.

Is there precedence for the above? If not, then this becomes a 'precedent-setting case', and I would give it a snowballs chance.

Folks at the federal level look out for themselves. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a federal judge that's going to tell Nicolau to go fuk himself. Just not going to happen, IMHO. ESPECIALLY when you consider he's a highly-respected arbitrator AND that both sides agreed to his being assigned the case!

 

[The Prussian]

http://www.zoomdinosaurs.com/subjects/dinosaurs/dinos/Quetzalcoatlus.shtml
It's wing-span was just under 36 feet wide (10.96 m). It was the largest flying animal ever found. It had hollow bones, was lightly built, and had a small body. Even though it was very big, it probably weighed only about 300 pounds (135 kg). It had toothless jaws and a long, thin beak. The neck was 10 feet (3 m) long. The legs were over 7 feet (2.1 m) in length, as was the long head.

Now that will stop an engine!

Do they have large talons??? :erm:

 

[Captzaahlie]

Which is exactly why I hope the left engine got "goosed" as well. I do find it strange that in a two engine aircraft, a flight would be continued to destination following a compressor stall on departure. Of course, we don't know the flight conditions at the time, or what any corrective action might have been taken inflight or at CLT afterwards, but if the situation was properly written up and signed off, and especially since the aircraft apparently operated a few legs cleanly before the Hudson got involved, then USAirways as well as the crew of a few days before and Sully's crew should be cleared of anything bad. Hope so, anyway.

And Amish, I hope your point is moot as well, but you never know how things could get spun in cases like this. Some folks can't help but make up their own news if nothing real comes up to report on. I've hit plenty of birds over the years and only once did I have any time to react in such a way to keep from hitting that particular flock.

I agree with all of your post... especially the details of the earlier flight. Regarding the continuing on part.... I wonder how close they were to the destination when it happened .. they announced to the pax that they might be making an unscheduled landing, at what point in time was that? Lot's of weird questions there.... not really the way I would handle things but like you implied we don't really know the details do we?

I've finched (bad play on words trying to match your "goosed" ) numerous times as well. All I could do was reflexively move my head in the last minute....

On a long final, I've raised a wing or shallowed out the descent a few times to skirt a few stray birds as I'm sure you've done. The one I'll never forget though was seeing two ducks just clear the nose and go over the top of the cockpit on a visual descent into DCA. I thought they might have made it, but felt a thump in the yoke.... After landing I wrote the a/c up for a bird strike and after much looking a mechanic found a piece of hollow bone lodged in the tails deice boot......

As the saying goes, "Duck, Duck, Goose! (or grey duck as mid westerners say), I guess they all have the potential to do some pretty serious damage. There was a Dash 7 years ago that hit a vulture so hard that it caved in part of the a/c's over head panel, squirted a little guts into the cockpit and to add insult to injury the impact knocked out (or deployed) the fuel shut off/ fire handle and shut down an engine.... Some one also sent me an email where a C130 had run into a eagle and the eagles head ended up laying next to the Capts flight bag...... I'll see if I can find those pics and post em

 

[Bringupthebird]

So glad to read about your down grade.

Blah, blah, blah. As a matter of fact I do continue to support Age 65 (as I did before I upgraded) because it's right. I vehemently oppose USAPA because it's wrong.

If you don't get your anger in check, you'll be risking your own medical. You might have to change your name to "Luckytohaveadefibrulator".

Peace.