NTSB: Both engines lost power

[b707guy]

I'm not that old and I'm not that young,

But will you be too old when 2017 comes rolling around?

I've heard one report that some bird remains were found in one engine, I presume the one that was still attached, and also that the other engine has been recovered.

I was concerned that any evidence of bird ingestion may have been washed off by the time any analysis could be started - a strange thing to hope for I guess, but hopefully, they'll find some goose chunks in the left engine as well. Should stave off at least a good percentage of the suit-happy among those involved.

At the same time, I'm sure at least some of those $5k checks will go uncashed for a little while...

 

[B-atch]

never mind.......

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I think any decomposition remaining from the detached engine should still be able to yield some pheasant DNA trapped inside the stages or core.

 

[JumpersAway]

Wow- USAirways truly is amazing. Even in the midst of a crash that highlighted the true professionalism and skill demanded by this profession, you guys still managed to squeez in the obligatory USAPA-East-West garbage. Can it not be put to rest for a single USAirways post?

 

[ultrarunner]

Very interesting. The story contends that this same ship number returned to base as a result of repeated compressor stalls within 48 hours prior of the accident.

No it didn't! A PA was made which said they MIGHT need to land at the nearest airport, but they continued to CLT.

Move along now...

 

[Captzaahlie]

But will you be too old when 2017 comes rolling around?

I've heard one report that some bird remains were found in one engine, I presume the one that was still attached, and also that the other engine has been recovered.

I was concerned that any evidence of bird ingestion may have been washed off by the time any analysis could be started - a strange thing to hope for I guess, but hopefully, they'll find some goose chunks in the left engine as well. Should stave off at least a good percentage of the suit-happy among those involved.

At the same time, I'm sure at least some of those $5k checks will go uncashed for a little while...

I think the technology is there to determine how thick the bone was that scratched or bent an internal engine part. All they need is a smudge of bird residue (some thing lodged in a tight nook or cranny) and DNA will tell them what group of birds became ingested. Here's what I think it was:
http://www.zoomdinosaurs.com/subjects/dinosaurs/dinos/Quetzalcoatlus.shtml
It's wing-span was just under 36 feet wide (10.96 m). It was the largest flying animal ever found. It had hollow bones, was lightly built, and had a small body. Even though it was very big, it probably weighed only about 300 pounds (135 kg). It had toothless jaws and a long, thin beak. The neck was 10 feet (3 m) long. The legs were over 7 feet (2.1 m) in length, as was the long head.

Now that will stop an engine!

D[SIZE=+1]inosaurs worries aside , I find the previously reported compressor stalls (from another flt.) more concerning...
I hope that was all properly documented and addressed to a point where no correlation can be made with the Hudson River tour.

I'm sure the sharks are already circling in anticipation. [/SIZE]

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Heres an interesting question....If what now appears to be fact that "Birds" brought down this jet liner, wouldn't this be considered an "Act of God" occurrence, hence negating the possibilities of any law suits??....Just wandering????????????

I wonder if the FO's flying will come into judgment.

Perhaps they may speculate that the FO with only 35 hrs. in type, may have been more focused on properly flying the profile and DP and less on looking outside.

An interesting comment made by the FO and related by K. Higgins was that the FO's initial reaction was to "duck." She stated that he didn't but that's what one might do approaching a large flock of birds. Perhaps he either didn't have enough time to react, but they may question how much heads up he had during the departure and whether he may have had ample time to perform a mild evasive maneuver to avoid the birds. It's been stated somewhere that the birds were captured on the ATC radar. They may correlate their ability to have seen and reacted with the flocks proximity.

This may be a far stretch and moot, but just thought I'd mention it. A plane is a plane after all, especially with 20K.

 

[CWGrizwald]

"Duck"

So did he say "duck" as in "lower your head so it doesn't get taken off by this rapidly approaching object!" Or did he say "duck" as a generic term for waterfowl, because after all, saying "Look Captain, Branta Canadensis!" would have just sounded stupid.

 

[Crzipilot]

you got your story wrong. the capt said his reaction was to duck.

 

[b707guy]

[SIZE=+1]I find the previously reported compressor stalls (from another flt.) more concerning... [/SIZE]

Which is exactly why I hope the left engine got "goosed" as well. I do find it strange that in a two engine aircraft, a flight would be continued to destination following a compressor stall on departure. Of course, we don't know the flight conditions at the time, or what any corrective action might have been taken inflight or at CLT afterwards, but if the situation was properly written up and signed off, and especially since the aircraft apparently operated a few legs cleanly before the Hudson got involved, then USAirways as well as the crew of a few days before and Sully's crew should be cleared of anything bad. Hope so, anyway.

And Amish, I hope your point is moot as well, but you never know how things could get spun in cases like this. Some folks can't help but make up their own news if nothing real comes up to report on. I've hit plenty of birds over the years and only once did I have any time to react in such a way to keep from hitting that particular flock.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Wow- USAirways truly is amazing. Even in the midst of a crash that highlighted the true professionalism and skill demanded by this profession, you guys still managed to squeez in the obligatory USAPA-East-West garbage. Can it not be put to rest for a single USAirways post?

No I don't think it really is possible.

Amazingly it is the only thing some people can think of..... it's getting very old for me too.:smash:

Speaking of old.... still about a "Bakers Dozen" of years left from 2017 on for me b707guy.
I guess the flying dinosaurs distracted me from answering your question... and here I thought it was only my 5 year old that had a short attention span. I can see where he gets it from!:erm:

 

[BeCareful!]

Anyone who's been in this game for any length of time could have predicted a large LAS and PHX pull down in this economic climate. Pilots of the now defunct AWA know this in their hearts, but lack the class to acknowledge it. Without the merge, your downgrades and general woes would be much, much worse.

As for "honoring" ALPA's corrupt, inept handling of the merge, replete with deep seated conflicts of interest, none of you former AWA pilots would have done it either. If 2004 newhires at U had gone senior to your 1986 hires, you'd have gone completely ballistic. To try and claim differently flies in the face of all that we know to be true about pilots, and makes you look like the unseasoned, rookie, Mesa and TrannyStates pilots that you probably are.

ALPA is gone for good reasons here, and Nic is but one of them.

 

[ultrarunner]

ALPA is gone for good reasons here, and Nic is but one of them.

But Nic will eventually prevail wont it?

Or do you think USAPA will be successful in getting a federal judge to overturn the binding arbitration decision of the mutually agreed upon federal mediator?

I don't ask these questions to flame...they are valid questions.

Is there precedence for the above? If not, then this becomes a 'precedent-setting case', and I would give it a snowballs chance.

Folks at the federal level look out for themselves. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a federal judge that's going to tell Nicolau to go fuk himself. Just not going to happen, IMHO. ESPECIALLY when you consider he's a highly-respected arbitrator AND that both sides agreed to his being assigned the case!

 

[The Prussian]

http://www.zoomdinosaurs.com/subjects/dinosaurs/dinos/Quetzalcoatlus.shtml
It's wing-span was just under 36 feet wide (10.96 m). It was the largest flying animal ever found. It had hollow bones, was lightly built, and had a small body. Even though it was very big, it probably weighed only about 300 pounds (135 kg). It had toothless jaws and a long, thin beak. The neck was 10 feet (3 m) long. The legs were over 7 feet (2.1 m) in length, as was the long head.

Now that will stop an engine!

Do they have large talons??? :erm:

 

[Captzaahlie]

Which is exactly why I hope the left engine got "goosed" as well. I do find it strange that in a two engine aircraft, a flight would be continued to destination following a compressor stall on departure. Of course, we don't know the flight conditions at the time, or what any corrective action might have been taken inflight or at CLT afterwards, but if the situation was properly written up and signed off, and especially since the aircraft apparently operated a few legs cleanly before the Hudson got involved, then USAirways as well as the crew of a few days before and Sully's crew should be cleared of anything bad. Hope so, anyway.

And Amish, I hope your point is moot as well, but you never know how things could get spun in cases like this. Some folks can't help but make up their own news if nothing real comes up to report on. I've hit plenty of birds over the years and only once did I have any time to react in such a way to keep from hitting that particular flock.

I agree with all of your post... especially the details of the earlier flight. Regarding the continuing on part.... I wonder how close they were to the destination when it happened .. they announced to the pax that they might be making an unscheduled landing, at what point in time was that? Lot's of weird questions there.... not really the way I would handle things but like you implied we don't really know the details do we?

I've finched (bad play on words trying to match your "goosed" ) numerous times as well. All I could do was reflexively move my head in the last minute....

On a long final, I've raised a wing or shallowed out the descent a few times to skirt a few stray birds as I'm sure you've done. The one I'll never forget though was seeing two ducks just clear the nose and go over the top of the cockpit on a visual descent into DCA. I thought they might have made it, but felt a thump in the yoke.... After landing I wrote the a/c up for a bird strike and after much looking a mechanic found a piece of hollow bone lodged in the tails deice boot......

As the saying goes, "Duck, Duck, Goose! (or grey duck as mid westerners say), I guess they all have the potential to do some pretty serious damage. There was a Dash 7 years ago that hit a vulture so hard that it caved in part of the a/c's over head panel, squirted a little guts into the cockpit and to add insult to injury the impact knocked out (or deployed) the fuel shut off/ fire handle and shut down an engine.... Some one also sent me an email where a C130 had run into a eagle and the eagles head ended up laying next to the Capts flight bag...... I'll see if I can find those pics and post em

 

[Bringupthebird]

So glad to read about your down grade.

Blah, blah, blah. As a matter of fact I do continue to support Age 65 (as I did before I upgraded) because it's right. I vehemently oppose USAPA because it's wrong.

If you don't get your anger in check, you'll be risking your own medical. You might have to change your name to "Luckytohaveadefibrulator".

Peace.