Ejm

[badlander45]

Well, since you are so smart, why don't you come up with more accurate information? Or are you too busy looking for your next piece of porn to use for an avatar?

You're an idiot.

 

[54fighting]

KSU,

Ok, I assumed you were talking about EJM when you referenced this.

 

[BoilerUP]

To be on EJM, don't all crewmembers have to meet certain flight time requirements?

 

[rice]

My boss just looked at using another management company to put the aircraft on part 135. Here is what I learned:

1. You will need $50 million liability insurance. Most charter brokers require a $50 million liability. With out broker flights, you won't get enough work to actually offset the added costs. The additional coverage will run around $20,000 per $10 million in liability. A lot of part 91 aircraft have $5 million, so you might see an increase of $90,000
WRONG!!!!! But if you're willing to pay those rates I'll be happy to go into the insurance business and make you my one and only client. Truth is, often a GOOD management company can get you better rates with more comprehensive coverage limits.

2. Management companies will charge between $1500 to $3000 per month for the privilege of being on their certificate. Then, they will likely give you 85% of what they bill the customer. That leaves you with an additional $18,000 or more in additional costs.
Again WRONG!!! I've seen monthly fees as high as $12k/mo (I'd never pay that personally) but you can usually get a significant discount if you make the plane available for a bunch of charter work.

3. You will have to put your aircraft through a compliance inspection. This will probably run $6,000 or more. Add that to your additional costs.
Yes you will have to go through a "Conformity" Inspection. How much it costs is completely dependent on how your aircraft is/has been maintained. I've had conformity's which cost nothing and other's which have been very pricey.

4. You may or may not have to add equipment that you don't have now. I almost had to add a CVR, that would have been damn expensive.
Well you will be operating a "commercial aircraft" being held out to the public. Nice to comply with the reg's.

5. Finally, your boss will have to give up control of his aircraft and only use it if the management company allows him. This is a result of a rule imposed by the FAA after a certain aircraft ran off the end of the runway in TEB. You probably remember that accident. So, the management company has authority over the owner.
Uh, NO!!!! Maybe you should go read A008. Any management company worth doing business with will request "Owner Approval" before booking a trip on the plane. True the mgmt. comp. does have "Operational Control" over all 135 flights but only when the plane is being OPERATED.
Owner flights can still be conducted under Part 91 if so desired.

6. You will have to quit your job and be hired by the management company. Now, that may be a bonus or a detriment, depending on your current job. On one hand, you may be able to be used on another aircraft if your aircraft gets sold. On the other hand, your benefits might be worse. In my case, it would have made no difference. I would have been paid exactly the same and I chose to get a larger salary over paid benefits because I believe that benefits me more.
Again WRONG!!!!! Many crews work under an "Agent Agreement" whereby they are still employed/paid by the owner but act as agents and are under the operational control of the certificate holder. (Granted, this is now the exception rather than the rule in today's day and age)

When we looked at the numbers, it was hard to justify adding our aircraft to a 135. Rather, we have decided to wait out the economy and then, if needed, add a partner or two. Adding a partner may be a much better option for your owner than putting the aircraft on a charter certificate.

Very True!!!!!


KSU,
Put the pipe down and step away from the keyboard. Either you don't know WTF you are talking about or you were discussing terms with the ACME Aircaft Management Corp., because every one of your 6 points was either completely incorrect or misguided.

GIVSP,
I'm no great fan of 135 (although we do it with a management company) but if thats the route the boss wants to go you might as well accept it. Our guy likes it because he doesn't fly that much (or so he thinks) and it makes him feel good to know we're out there making him a couple bucks instead of the plane sitting in the hangar for 14-20 days a month.
All depends on the relationship you have with the mgmt. company and the owner.

 

[GIVSP]

Thanks guys

 

[ksu_aviator]

Very True!!!!!


KSU,
Put the pipe down and step away from the keyboard. Either you don't know WTF you are talking about or you were discussing terms with the ACME Aircaft Management Corp., because every one of your 6 points was either completely incorrect or misguided.

GIVSP,
I'm no great fan of 135 (although we do it with a management company) but if thats the route the boss wants to go you might as well accept it. Our guy likes it because he doesn't fly that much (or so he thinks) and it makes him feel good to know we're out there making him a couple bucks instead of the plane sitting in the hangar for 14-20 days a month.
All depends on the relationship you have with the mgmt. company and the owner.

I'm sorry. If I had known that putting FACTS on a thread requesting information was such a sin I would have abstained.

Of course, I based my information on the information that the management company gave me and I made that clear in the first couple of sentences. But I'm guessing that doesn't matter to a big man like you.

 

[gret]

It all depends on the mgmt company you talked to. KSU isn't wrong, it is what he heard. I've heard the same thing and thought they were nuts.

There are good ones and bad ones. May not be too many left after the next couple of months. Those that survive, should be those that do it right.

 

[pilot error]

I'm sorry. If I had known that putting FACTS on a thread requesting information was such a sin I would have abstained.

Of course, I based my information on the information that the management company gave me and I made that clear in the first couple of sentences. But I'm guessing that doesn't matter to a big man like you.

toughen up, buttercup.

 

[siucavflight]

ksu, sorry for being negative. What you posted seemed so far from anything I have ever heard regarding management companies. I hope your boss laughed at their offer.

 

[CALRepublic]

To be on EJM, don't all crewmembers have to meet certain flight time requirements?

They REALLY want a type and some jet time, not sure about hard mins.....I've flown with 2 or 3 ex-EJM guys, it sounds like EJM has their s*** togeter.........one of them said they were expecting to manage around 200 aircraft by the end of 2008......

 

[AA717driver]

SIU's avatars are the only reason I visit this board.

This one IS a little tame. The previous two were smokin', though.

Everyone is entitled to a off day every so often. TC

 

[siucavflight]

SIU's avatars are the only reason I visit this board.

This one IS a little tame. The previous two were smokin', though.

Everyone is entitled to a off day every so often. TC

You dont find this girl amazing? I was thinking that she was the best I have ever posted.

 

[NotFurloughed]

Um...

Maybe I can help....if this thread is not dead yet.

We just put our plane (CE750) on with EJM as a charter managed account. That means we are still employees of the owner, but work as EJM employees during the 135 flights.

I will touch on some of the disputed points.

Insurance - Our premiums for the 135 through EJM remained basically the same - We carry a TON of liability to begin with so no biggie there.

Conformity - The only expense we incurred during conformity was the replacement of some worn seat belt TSO labels and a armrest bracket that the fine folks at EJM maintenance stripped while reassembling.

Flight Time Minimums - This is a case by case basis, but as rice mentioned earlier a type and some jet time will make things easy.

The operational control issue is per A008 - EJM has operational control over all all 135 flights.

There is an added cost of the initial indoc in CVG, the 135.293, 135.297 at FSI or Simuflight and the all important 135.299 in the airplane.

The day the airplane officially went on certificate (recently) we began getting calls for charter flights - so the market is not completely dead.

EJM is definitely a first-class organization. Period.

 

[CALRepublic]

Maybe I can help....if this thread is not dead yet.

We just put our plane (CE750) on with EJM as a charter managed account. That means we are still employees of the owner, but work as EJM employees during the 135 flights.

There is an added cost of the initial indoc in CVG, the 135.293, 135.297 at FSI or Simuflight and the all important 135.299 in the airplane.

The day the airplane officially went on certificate (recently) we began getting calls for charter flights - so the market is not completely dead.

EJM is definitely a first-class organization. Period.

That sounds more like what I've heard.... Hey Notfurloughed, 2 questions-

If I'm not getting to personal, since you work under the EJM banner on 135 flights, you get the same benefits as the NJA guys, correct??

Any idea how many birds EJM is managing right now?? is that number I posted correct (about 200).

Just curious...

 

[NotFurloughed]

CAL....

The answer to your first question is....since we are charter managed we are not considered true employees of EJM. Therefore, we have the benefits that the A/C owner provides. We do get full support from EJM during charter flights as far as trip briefings, flight following, maintenance, etc. Also, we get all of the operational benefits of being a NetJets company - fuel prices, low landing and handling fees, FSI discounts, etc.

The full managed accounts are considered full-time EJM employees and receive the appropriate full-time benefits.

As far as # of planes on certificate - I know the number in early December was around 185 and growing.

Hope that helps....