Delta in SEA?

[poor2thecore]

So there has been some talk about them opening up a pilot base there. What A/C do you think will eventually have a pilot base there? With the exception of the 330 which is there already.

Me thinks 7ER and maybe 767. An A320 base would be great for the not-so-incredibly-senior Delta pilot. Can only dream.

How about the cities along the west coast going to 767 (PDX-NRT, LAX-NRT) and all the stuff in the south Pacific (Guam, HI), do you think/could it be incorporated into the SEA system? ie. long 6 day trip going SEA-NRT-PDX/SFO/LAX-NRT-SEA?

 

[1st Rate]

I agree. the 7ER or 767. I'm not sure of a 320 base just because we have an Alaska agreement. Don't know if we would compete directly with them. There is a big ocean out there with plenty of nice destinations from SEA!

 

[poor2thecore]

I agree. the 7ER or 767. I'm not sure of a 320 base just because we have an Alaska agreement. Don't know if we would compete directly with them. There is a big ocean out there with plenty of nice destinations from SEA!

Ahh, very true. I guess that makes sense. I'd like to see them open up some more cities to Asia and having the opportunity to fly the stuff within Asia and the south Pacific. Add that to FRA, LHR, CDG, AMS on the east end and the SEA base would be a dream come true!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

7ER will be moved to SEA and the 330's to JFK. I would guess by summer 2010 at the latest. (Just a guess) They could change their minds.

 

[poor2thecore]

7ER will be moved to SEA and the 330's to JFK. I would guess by summer 2010 at the latest. (Just a guess) They could change their minds.

Do you think will be as senior as the 330 is? So no 330's at all in SEA you think?

 

[aircowboy]

The 767s will be moved to Seattle so pilots can fly them to asia and then operate our 757's interport throughout Asia. Right now the 757 guys deadhead from Minneapolis/Detroit and fly 8-12 day trips out of NRT Narita Airport.

 

[ArcherII]

Give me a quick explanation on what you mean by 767 and 7ER.
Is 7ER 767-300ER?
Is 767 767-300 and 757-200/300 (with NW)
Do either of them include the 767-400 or is that a separate category in itself?
Thanks.

 

[767/757]

Give me a quick explanation on what you mean by 767 and 7ER.
Is 7ER 767-300ER?

What DAL calls a 767-300-ER is an extended range aircraft with extra fuel and HMG for 180+ ETOPS.


Is 767 767-300 and 757-200/300 (with NW) DAL operates 25 757-300 models for short Atlantic operations.

DAL used to operate 767-200 hence the carry over of 767-300. All the 767 aircraft operated at DAL are -300+ models.

Do either of them include the 767-400 or is that a separate category in itself?

No, the 767-400 ( same type, differences) separate category for now.

Thanks.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

That explaination is incorrect.

A "7ER" base/category is a 767/757 "transoceanic qualified" base/category in as few words as possible.

A "767" base/category (also known as 767 domestic) is a 767/757 base/category that flies non ocean crossing routes and does not go farther south than 3 degrees south of the equator. I believe the farthest out to sea that we go on the domestic side is Bermuda.

All 7ER and 767 pilots are qualified to fly, and do fly, all models of the 757-200, 757-200ER (winglets), 767-300, and 767-300ER... soon to be adding the 757-300.

The 767-400 is a separate "ER" category where they fly both ocean crossing and domestic ops. This is designated as the "765." Goodness knows why it got this designation.. someone told me the history behind it one time, but I've long since forgotten.

"ER" pilots can fly both domestic (see previous description) and international, while non ER can only do "domestic" ops.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The Senior NWA folks that live in SEA will more than likely get to bid the ER in SEA if they want to. Also the 330's will be open for them too. When you start to see big jets moving bases, that is when it will get real interesting around here!

 

[poor2thecore]

That explaination is incorrect.

A "7ER" base/category is a 767/757 "transoceanic qualified" base/category in as few words as possible.

A "767" base/category (also known as 767 domestic) is a 767/757 base/category that flies non ocean crossing routes and does not go farther south than 3 degrees south of the equator. I believe the farthest out to sea that we go on the domestic side is Bermuda.

All 7ER and 767 pilots are qualified to fly, and do fly, all models of the 757-200, 757-200ER (winglets), 767-300, and 767-300ER... soon to be adding the 757-300.

The 767-400 is a separate "ER" category where they fly both ocean crossing and domestic ops. This is designated as the "765." Goodness knows why it got this designation.. someone told me the history behind it one time, but I've long since forgotten.

"ER" pilots can fly both domestic (see previous description) and international, while non ER can only do "domestic" ops.

So do ER pilots normally get stuff within the US? Or even though they can, do they only fly international?

 

[~~~^~~~]

I'm not sure of a 320 base just because we have an Alaska agreement. Don't know if we would compete directly with them.

True. ....

 

[FBN0223]

NWA, under Dasburg, gave all of the domestic flying out of SEA away to Alaska. I remembering him explaining his strategy and how shrinking the airline into cold and dark hubs in the midwest was a good thing.

 

[General Lee]

So do ER pilots normally get stuff within the US? Or even though they can, do they only fly international?

We do really well on the ER in the Summer, when everyone flies overseas. During the Winter, the flying dries up a bit, and trips that used to be daily during the Summer maybe fly 3-4 times a week. So, they usually add some domestic trips into the mix to keep people flying on the ER side, and lower the average line value at domestic only bases. Next month in ATL we have a lot of 4 day domestic trips in the pot.

As far as SEA going senior, I think that will be for both sides. There are PLENTY of senior DL folks that will bid it, even moving from the left seat to the right. Junior guys (and I know SEA A330 is senior) on that plane will probably be displaced. But, I have been hearing of a SLC A320 base, so they may bid into that and still fly the stick, albeit at a slight discount.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FBN0223]

0. But, I have been hearing of a SLC A320 base, so they may bid into that and still fly the stick, albeit at a slight discount.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Anything on the west is going to be quite attractive to many NWA guys and gals. Even though NWA's roots are in MSP, they had a significant presence on the west coast at one time. NWA had a larger base in SEA, a LAX base and a HNL base. As the airline retreated to the frozen tundra, many west coasters did not and their commuting adventures began.

In any case, I do hope that Delta expands international service out of SEA thus increasing the base size and providing more options for those out west. I do think that will be the case.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Anything on the west is going to be quite attractive to many NWA guys and gals. Even though NWA's roots are in MSP, they had a significant presence on the west coast at one time. NWA had a larger base in SEA, a LAX base and a HNL base. As the airline retreated to the frozen tundra, many west coasters did not and their commuting adventures began.

In any case, I do hope that Delta expands international service out of SEA thus increasing the base size and providing more options for those out west. I do think that will be the case.

Gate space is kinda tight at SEA, isn't it? Delta is moving their ops to the S terminal, so there goes the B gates, and how many gates does NWA have at SEA?

 

[FBN0223]

Gate space is kinda tight at SEA, isn't it? Delta is moving their ops to the S terminal, so there goes the B gates, and how many gates does NWA have at SEA?

Good point. I fly into SEA often and it seems to me that all the S gates are accounted for but under-utilized. My guess is that there would be some room to ramp up operations a bit out of these gates. Just a guess, we'll see.

 

[General Lee]

Anything on the west is going to be quite attractive to many NWA guys and gals. Even though NWA's roots are in MSP, they had a significant presence on the west coast at one time. NWA had a larger base in SEA, a LAX base and a HNL base. As the airline retreated to the frozen tundra, many west coasters did not and their commuting adventures began.

In any case, I do hope that Delta expands international service out of SEA thus increasing the base size and providing more options for those out west. I do think that will be the case.

I think they will too. Air Canada flies 767-300ERs from YVR up the street all over Asia nonstop---and that is without winglets which we will get. I hear the 757s may come back to the US and 767ERs will do the intra Asia stuff too. It should go senior, but as senior FNWA guys start to retire more people will be able to bid it eventually.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Sinca3]

That explaination is incorrect.

A "7ER" base/category is a 767/757 "transoceanic qualified" base/category in as few words as possible.

A "767" base/category (also known as 767 domestic) is a 767/757 base/category that flies non ocean crossing routes and does not go farther south than 3 degrees south of the equator. I believe the farthest out to sea that we go on the domestic side is Bermuda.

All 7ER and 767 pilots are qualified to fly, and do fly, all models of the 757-200, 757-200ER (winglets), 767-300, and 767-300ER... soon to be adding the 757-300.

The 767-400 is a separate "ER" category where they fly both ocean crossing and domestic ops. This is designated as the "765." Goodness knows why it got this designation.. someone told me the history behind it one time, but I've long since forgotten.

"ER" pilots can fly both domestic (see previous description) and international, while non ER can only do "domestic" ops.

Typical instructor....

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I could have phrased "That explaination is incorrect" a bit better... it's amazing how many people think that the 7ER pilots only fly 767-300ER aircraft.

 

[767/757]

I could have phrased "That explaination is incorrect" a bit better... it's amazing how many people think that the 7ER pilots only fly 767-300ER aircraft.

I understood the question to be about the aircraft not what pilots fly.....


Former PCP

 

[Fubijaakr]

I'd agree that you don't need a 320 base in SEA. The DAL/AS agreement will give you guys the West Coast feed you need.

That said, I'm still not convinced that once DAL has digested NWA they won't assimilate AS as well. If for no other reason but to deny that precious West Coast feed to AA and open more seats for themselves.

 

[~~~^~~~]

If we merge with Alaska, can we hire the APA to handle our merger?

 

[AKMD80GUY]

If we merge with Alaska, can we hire the APA to handle our merger?

This is a staple free zone.

 

[licorice]

This is a staple free zone.

Interesting to note, just looked up Alaska's profile on APC. Largest airplanes are the newer 737s -800s? (I think)--APC shows their Capt. payrate on that aircraft to be almost exactly the same as DAL's rate on the -800. If it happens, (buy-out or merger w/DAL) looks like your most senior capts. would start to "merge" into our list (by status & category) at about number 2000 or so, with MD-80 Capts. going a little lower, maybe about 3 - 4000 or so. How does that sound to you, AKMD80GUY?....What!!! You want what???!!!---Date of Hire????:laugh: I'm sure the former NW pilots would support you!!!....right, NW guys??:bomb: (The Delta pilots (all of us) more than likely, will not [ask the [likely] arbitrators, to] staple you!)

 

[General Lee]

Interesting to note, just looked up Alaska's profile on APC. Largest airplanes are the newer 737s -800s? (I think)--APC shows their Capt. payrate on that aircraft to be almost exactly the same as DAL's rate on the -800. If it happens, (buy-out or merger w/DAL) looks like your most senior capts. would start to "merge" into our list (by status & category) at about number 2000 or so, with MD-80 Capts. going a little lower, maybe about 3 - 4000 or so. How does that sound to you, AKMD80GUY?....What!!! You want what???!!!---Date of Hire????:laugh: I'm sure the former NW pilots would support you!!!....right, NW guys??:bomb:

I am sure they would TRY to say the 737-900 is the same size as a 757, so they deserve to be placed in a ratio starting at the 757/767, but I don't think Dalpa or any arbitrator would go for it (the NWA 757-300 was placed in with our 757-200s and 767s).

Most likelyhood they would blend them in in some ratio from the 737-800s down. Their career expectations do not include anything larger at this point.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

Most likelyhood they would blend them in in some ratio from the 737-800s down. Their career expectations do not include anything larger at this point.


Bye Bye--General Lee

When faced with a similar disparity with AAA/AWA, where one carrier brings wide bodied international categories and the other doesn't, Nicolau added up all the international positions, both captain and first officer and then started the ratios from that point. The justification for adding the first officer positions was that the senior AWA pilots did not have an expectation of those wide bodied positions and by adding in the first officer positions he protected the AAA first officer expectations of bidding those wide bodied captain slots when they became available.

 

[Fubijaakr]

If we merge with Alaska, can we hire the APA to handle our merger?

Ouch.

From what I've seen, DAL SLIs are pretty fair. The earlier poster who posited merging Alaska pilots in with the DAL 737-800 guys probably has the right idea. Of course, Gen. Lee and his ilk will probably demand a "forever" fence around the widebodies due to "career expectations".

Personally, I tend to believe that once the SLI takes place, everyone has the same career expectations, so that kind of fence is merely divisive and helps the Company keep the pilot group at odds with each other.

After the SLI, all positions should be open for bid using system seniority. That's the only fair way to proceed.

 

[GogglesPisano]

After the SLI, all positions should be open for bid using system seniority. That's the only fair way to proceed.

Sure. A guy chooses to work at a company with no possibility of ever flying a widebody, another chooses to work at a company that has a global network with a significant percentage of its fleet composed of widebodies. The carriers merge and now they have identical career expectations?

Arbitrators look at career expectations in effect prior to mergers -- when people made the decision to join up.

 

[General Lee]

Ouch.

From what I've seen, DAL SLIs are pretty fair. The earlier poster who posited merging Alaska pilots in with the DAL 737-800 guys probably has the right idea. Of course, Gen. Lee and his ilk will probably demand a "forever" fence around the widebodies due to "career expectations".

Personally, I tend to believe that once the SLI takes place, everyone has the same career expectations, so that kind of fence is merely divisive and helps the Company keep the pilot group at odds with each other.

After the SLI, all positions should be open for bid using system seniority. That's the only fair way to proceed.

I guess you haven't been paying attention to what has been going on. In the Nicelau award with AWA/USAir, he put the top 500 pilots all USAir East since they had INTL operations and AWA didn't. Our DL/NWA award had ratios with airplanes taken into consideration too. If we ever do buy you guys and eventually merge, we will see what you bring to the table. Don't expect it to be fair. Expect a ratio and expect the bottom guy to be an AK pilot. If you guys buy DL, then we could expect the same I guess.


Bye Bye--General Lee