I've been hearing rumors...

[993_Pilot]

I know what you said, but their is no need for me to call anyone. Again nothing has been said to the P2P's!

Sorry, but that is wrong.

Really? I beg to differ. Something was said back in Dec. just as someone else has said here.

Something was said. It wasn't anything concrete, just about the possibility of more furloughs.

Not sure about some people but I know the majority of the P2P's would say something. You all need to remember something, we had a meeting the day before the furloughs and their was discussion about possible furloughs, everything was denied. We all know what happened the next day. Believe me the P2P's were in the dark as much as everyone else.

True, but Mat apologized for having to do that to us. If the union didn't respect the confidentiality agreement, that would be the last time the company shared any info. Again, no concrete info was given at the 12/18 P2P call-in, just that management has approached the union with the possibility of more furloughs. The union may not get any definite info until just before it happens. Even if they have, they probably signed another confidentiality agreement. I wouldn't expect to hear that a furlough is definitely happening, or get numbers, dates, etc. until the company makes the announcement.

 

[993_Pilot]

That's what the company told the Union but... lets not forget that we are in the final stages (the money stuff) of negotiations. I wouldn't put it passed management to furlough more but this could also be a power play to try to 'ease' us through the money talks. Remember we still have Fud and Harrison at the table.

Good point. It is difficult to know the real motivation behind anything management does during negotiations. If a furlough is managements idea of "posturing" for negotiations, It is a crappy thoughtless thing to do, but the good news is that those that get furloughed would probably be brought back sooner.

 

[Myster79]

Sorry, but that is wrong.



Something was said. It wasn't anything concrete, just about the possibility of more furloughs.



True, but Mat apologized for having to do that to us. If the union didn't respect the confidentiality agreement, that would be the last time the company shared any info. Again, no concrete info was given at the 12/18 P2P call-in, just that management has approached the union with the possibility of more furloughs. The union may not get any definite info until just before it happens. Even if they have, they probably signed another confidentiality agreement. I wouldn't expect to hear that a furlough is definitely happening, or get numbers, dates, etc. until the company makes the announcement.

Sorry, I guess I was vague. IF the company is planning more furloughs and the union leadership is aware of definite upcoming furloughs, then the P2P's were not told.

My point was there has been nothing official on the subject. We can sit here and speculate, but the truth is, we just don't know. I hope it doesn't happen.

 

[Dingo221]

If another furlough of 30 or 50 might happen, Some of our union leadership will be cut, so what are the consequences?

 

[CALRepublic]

If another furlough of 30 or 50 might happen, Some of our union leadership will be cut, so what are the consequences?

Question, when FLOPS furloughed, did they go by seniority or did they target some of the senior union-rep dudes??

 

[993_Pilot]

Sorry, I guess I was vague. IF the company is planning more furloughs and the union leadership is aware of definite upcoming furloughs, then the P2P's were not told.

That is true. It sucks to be treated like a mushroom.

My point was there has been nothing official on the subject. We can sit here and speculate, but the truth is, we just don't know. I hope it doesn't happen.

You are right about that, and my thoughts about the reason for the schedule bid being delayed due to more furloughs is speculation on my part, not anything I was told by union leadership.

If another furlough of 30 or 50 might happen, Some of our union leadership will be cut, so what are the consequences?

Unfortunately, the don't get immunity like the PSM's. Hopefully this will all be short lived.

 

[993_Pilot]

Question, when FLOPS furloughed, did they go by seniority or did they target some of the senior union-rep dudes??

The initial RIF terminations in May were done by arbitrary stats, and appeared to target union supporters. They were recalled with back pay.

The present people on furlough were taken in reverse seniority order, i.e. starting with the highest seniority numbers working towards the lower numbers. If there is another furlough, it will be done the same way.

 

[HSDriver]

If they furlough another 50 they really start cutting into crews that give them a problem. They start getting into the majority of Hawker SIC and a lot of the X SIC's which supposedly they are super short on X crews right now with a lot of guys doing overtime. So they are trying to figure out how to work it out in the upcoming bid is my guess.

 

[CALRepublic]

The initial RIF terminations in May were done by arbitrary stats, and appeared to target union supporters. They were recalled with back pay.

The present people on furlough were taken in reverse seniority order, i.e. starting with the highest seniority numbers working towards the lower numbers. If there is another furlough, it will be done the same way.

WOW, that's screwed up, don't really know what to say. Hope things turn around, in this environment NOBODY is safe....

good luck to us all..

 

[cherry20's]

WOW, that's screwed up, don't really know what to say. Hope things turn around, in this environment NOBODY is safe....

good luck to us all..

I think you misread the post (I think)...

Flops furloughed in seniority order starting at the bottom of the list, ie the highest number, and will do it again that way if there is more.

 

[Narrow Bridge]

A pilot the other day told me he heard the numbers were going to be between 50 and 100. Hope it's not true.

 

[993_Pilot]

Unfortunately, you got your answer today. . . 63 more pilots on the street. Sorry for all who were affected.

 

[Captain Dork]

Layoff scare complete. Show concern and sadness for those affected.

Keep in mind gloom and doomer's.

What has FO purchased lately?.....Nothing, very little debt, made good money selling those Legacy's however.

How many contracts are out there where the customer has a monthly commitment (avg $9,000 per month)?....Do we still have 950 contracts?

What is the payroll for the pilots?.....Say 450 x $70000 per year.

Do you know of any pilots earning less than FO's, even at little FBO's in rural areas?......AHHH...

Does the negotiating committee look at audited financials from an outside firm or is it FO company generated stuff?....most likely FO generated stuff

Is FO proceeding to make cosmetic improvements to existing aircraft?.....Yes, teal color, not great for resale

Have we purchased charter lately?.....Yes

Have we purchased banked charter?....It is a rumor which began spreading January 2nd.

Have we been asked to fly overtime lately?.....Yes

Were we working consistently the last several tours?....Yes

Does the company have motivation to talk poor?.....Yes, Star Trek's-End of Negotiation-The Final Chapter

Has there been an anouncement of the consolidation of any management posts?......No, in fact we have a VP Flight Operations I, and VP Flight Operations II

Has any portion of the sales staff been laidoff?.....None known

Has there been any admission the management salaries and bonuses have decreased?..... None known

Who has their primary US office in Miami?.....HIG, Ford and Harrison, and Embraer

Who's writing style attempts to be folksie, but actually reads like-"Dear Chumps?".... VPFOI

Does the general economy suck right now?.....Yes, but if you stop paying your management fee on your airplane, we treat you like the ordinary civilians that don't make their car payments.

How many layoffs at the mature fractionals, beside
FO?....Not many. Perhaps we just suck.

Who is sometimes naive, highly fractious, loudly opionated (amongst our own), and often completely over our head outside of the cockpit?.....the line pilot (of which I am one)

 

[HSDriver]

Tru True True

Keep in mind gloom and doomer's.

What has FO purchased lately?.....Nothing, very little debt, made good money selling those Legacy's however.

How many contracts are out there where the customer has a monthly commitment (avg $9,000 per month)?....Do we still have 950 contracts?

What is the payroll for the pilots?.....Say 450 x $70000 per year.

Do you know of any pilots earning less than FO's, even at little FBO's in rural areas?......AHHH...

Does the negotiating committee look at audited financials from an outside firm or is it FO company generated stuff?....most likely FO generated stuff

Is FO proceeding to make cosmetic improvements to existing aircraft?.....Yes, teal color, not great for resale

Have we purchased charter lately?.....Yes

Have we purchased banked charter?....It is a rumor which began spreading January 2nd.

Have we been asked to fly overtime lately?.....Yes

Were we working consistently the last several tours?....Yes

Does the company have motivation to talk poor?.....Yes, Star Trek's-End of Negotiation-The Final Chapter

Has there been an anouncement of the consolidation of any management posts?......No, in fact we have a VP Flight Operations I, and VP Flight Operations II

Has any portion of the sales staff been laidoff?.....None known

Has there been any admission the management salaries and bonuses have decreased?..... None known

Who has their primary US office in Miami?.....HIG, Ford and Harrison, and Embraer

Who's writing style attempts to be folksie, but actually reads like-"Dear Chumps?".... VPFOI

Does the general economy suck right now?.....Yes, but if you stop paying your management fee on your airplane, we treat you like the ordinary civilians that don't make their car payments.

How many layoffs at the mature fractionals, beside
FO?....Not many. Perhaps we just suck.

Who is sometimes naive, highly fractious, loudly opionated (amongst our own), and often completely over our head outside of the cockpit?.....the line pilot (of which I am one)

True, True, True,

Pilots that are still working at Flops, Don't get scared for your job, that is the intention. Get a good contract and make this a good place to work and bring many of your buddies back. They are counting on you not to fold to management.

 

[Narrow Bridge]

I don't think the furloughs had anything to do with negotiations. We just arent very busy. I think the company realized they didn't furlough enough the first time around.