Frontier pilots vote to SAVE the airline!!

[WSurf]

Look at Skybus's old payrates. Even with those they went out of buisness.

 

[m80drvr]

Yes; their pilots now make about half what they used to, they lost their pension, and they labor under BK-style work rules.

And their costs are still the highest in the industry and they appear headed for another BK.

Pay cuts don't work.

I agree 100%. Take what you can get and let management figure out how to get pax and marketshare

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Tried and true management tactic.... looks like it worked again!

 

[Larcifer]

If I understand correctly, after the BK filing, F9 pilots took a 14.5% paycut. This new, longer term agreement gives them back 4.5% of that now, and the rest comes back over time.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

Actually we took a temporary 14.5% plus 5% lost 401k match for myself totaling 19.5%. Now it is a 10% plus 5% 401k match which is incrementally reduced over the 4 year duration. We do get "profit sharing" if certain criteria are met. Same BS that most BK carriers have went through. The difference with us was that we were already one of the lowest compensated, most productive and most efficient pilot groups in the industry. Total BS but they had us over a barrel and we aren't exactly a strong pilot group. We've got guys on furlough and the majority of the guys you talk to are picking up an additional 10-20 hrs per month. With the current economic outlook for 09 things look a little bleak.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What was the voting numbers and participation rate...

 

[Bookingsareup]

Sad. Never has a concessionary contract and give backs saved an airline and we are the only instrument management needs to screw us. Pitiful. I feel sorry for Frontier's pilots, but this not going to keep anyone employed any longer.

Management never told pilots that the aprox. $10mil. annual savings from the pilots would "save" the airline or keep anyone employed any longer. Further, a single contract with any particular labor group is not a make or break issue in itself. Frontier Airlines sold several aircraft to raise cash. You could also say, no sale of one aircraft ever saved an airline or kept anyone employed any longer. All of these decisions to either raise cash or decrease cost are (theoretically) part of what they consider a successful business plan to exit bankruptcy. By the way, Any potential financier will be the ultimate judge of Frontier's plan. We as pilots need to discard this decades old, tired, over-used argument. Our industries' challenges mandate we move forward.

 

[Larcifer]

What was the voting numbers and participation rate...

Passed by 85% with 78 % voting.

 

[Propsync]

Management never told pilots that the aprox. $10mil. annual savings from the pilots would "save" the airline or keep anyone employed any longer. Further, a single contract with any particular labor group is not a make or break issue in itself. Frontier Airlines sold several aircraft to raise cash. You could also say, no sale of one aircraft ever saved an airline or kept anyone employed any longer. All of these decisions to either raise cash or decrease cost are (theoretically) part of what they consider a successful business plan to exit bankruptcy. By the way, Any potential financier will be the ultimate judge of Frontier's plan. We as pilots need to discard this decades old, tired, over-used argument. Our industries' challenges mandate we move forward.

Good post. To add to it, I find it funny that there's never a plan to increase revenue, just one to cut cost.

 

[DonVerita]

Yeah Airtran needs ALPA because ALPA is really going to help a 1,500 pilot group vs the majors.

They all Suck!!

AirTran is a Major.

 

[spitfire1500]

AirTran is a Major.

Under the definition of Major...so is Mesa

 

[PCL_128]

Under the definition of Major...so is Mesa

Mesa flies other airlines' code. We fly our own.

 

[Bookingsareup]

Good post. To add to it, I find it funny that there's never a plan to increase revenue, just one to cut cost.

Actually, They do have a plan to increase revenue this time. We will see if it is enough to make a difference though. Pilots, FA's Gate, Ground, etc have all taken cuts and gas is cheap. It's now time for the folks at 7001 Tower Rd. to do their part and make money. I will say this: Who ever pulled the trigger on a 25% fuel hedge at $115 pbl needs to be held accountable for their actions...Ok, now I'm getting off topic.

 

[Propsync]

Actually, They do have a plan to increase revenue this time. We will see if it is enough to make a difference though. Pilots, FA's Gate, Ground, etc have all taken cuts and gas is cheap. It's now time for the folks at 7001 Tower Rd. to do their part and make money. I will say this: Who ever pulled the trigger on a 25% fuel hedge at $115 pbl needs to be held accountable for their actions...Ok, now I'm getting off topic.

OK, we just never seem hear about that stuff here.

Remember, hedges go both ways. If fuel went to 200, you'd be mad they only did 25 percent, even though it was saving the company a ton of money. I agree though, if the person gambles and loses, so should they with their job. Otherwise, there is no incentive to hedge for the companies benefit.

 

[Bookingsareup]

OK, we just never seem hear about that stuff here.

Remember, hedges go both ways. If fuel went to 200, you'd be mad they only did 25 percent, even though it was saving the company a ton of money. I agree though, if the person gambles and loses, so should they with their job. Otherwise, there is no incentive to hedge for the companies benefit.

Agreed. I certainly enjoy my ability to have hein sight in this matter!

 

[GuppyWN]

So just how many guys are picking up extra with dudes on furlough?

Gup

 

[regionaltard]

We've got guys on furlough and the majority of the guys you talk to are picking up an additional 10-20 hrs per month.

That simple fact tells your management all that they need to know.

 

[Bookingsareup]

So just how many guys are picking up extra with dudes on furlough?

Gup

I'm not sure what you are inferring by this question. I know you can only fly up to the legal amount. I for one have always averaged around 77 hours of actual flight time each month for the last 7 airlines I have been with. The airline will staff based on, well many variables, but primarily on total hours scheduled and average hours flown by its pilots.

Some pilots (I'm not suggesting you are one) believe that if an airline furloughs pilots no one should pick up open time. I strongly disagree with this and here is why:

1. First off, most of those strong, vocal advocates against picking up open time and who try and intimidate others in fact, pick up open time themselves!
2. I fly the amount required to pay my bills. I am not going to neglect my financial obligations.
3. For those that suggest I not pick up open time- when will I be free to resume doing so, when all pilots return to the list, some, one?
4. Some furloughed pilots do not wish to return ( I personally know of at least two but, perhaps there are more that I don't even know of)
5. Some furloughed pilots have gone on to other companies and are making more than they made at Frontier. This was my situation at a previous airline where I was furloughed.
6. What about the pilot who is awarded 85 hours of credit vs another who is awarded 75 for a monthly schedule?
7. Where does this "protection" stop-just the furloughed pilots? What about those pilots who were hired and in the pool? What about pilots who were invited to interview and got canceled? Perhaps you at Southwest might have recently experienced this situation (that was not a dig).

And there are more. The point is, we as pilots want all of our Brethren who want to come back to be able to do so. However, to use a tired, overused slogan like "don't pick up open time while pilots are on furlough" gets us nowhere. Ultimately our beef is with management. We want management to do their job and manage the company to growth and profitability thus calling back all furloughed pilots and hiring new ones!

 

[GuppyWN]

However, to use a tired, overused slogan like "don't pick up open time while pilots are on furlough" gets us nowhere.

Whatever you need to tell yourself pal. While you fly extra enough to "pay your bills" just remember your BROTHERS that are unemployed and can't pay any of their bills.

Any flying over your awared line is too much. Matter of fact I'd probably have anal glaucoma every month for 3 days too!

Why don't you go ahead and give management a paycut while you're being a big ole kitty cat. Oh wait. You just did.

I'm done with you.
Gup

 

[aa73]

1. First off, most of those strong, vocal advocates against picking up open time and who try and intimidate others in fact, pick up open time themselves!
2. I fly the amount required to pay my bills. I am not going to neglect my financial obligations.
3. For those that suggest I not pick up open time- when will I be free to resume doing so, when all pilots return to the list, some, one?
4. Some furloughed pilots do not wish to return ( I personally know of at least two but, perhaps there are more that I don't even know of)
5. Some furloughed pilots have gone on to other companies and are making more than they made at Frontier. This was my situation at a previous airline where I was furloughed.
6. What about the pilot who is awarded 85 hours of credit vs another who is awarded 75 for a monthly schedule?
7. Where does this "protection" stop-just the furloughed pilots? What about those pilots who were hired and in the pool? What about pilots who were invited to interview and got canceled? Perhaps you at Southwest might have recently experienced this situation (that was not a dig).

Sounds like the same justification scabs use.

I echo GuppyWNs sentiments... whatever dude.

 

[Monster Buck]

Whatever you need to tell yourself pal. While you fly extra enough to "pay your bills" just remember your BROTHERS that are unemployed and can't pay any of their bills.

Any flying over your awared line is too much. Matter of fact I'd probably have anal glaucoma every month for 3 days too!

Why don't you go ahead and give management a paycut while you're being a big ole kitty cat. Oh wait. You just did.

I'm done with you.
Gup

I have to agree with Guppy. Anything over your line award is too much. End of discusion.