Some Delta/NWA route swaps......

[FDJ2]

Shall I be more specific?

Yes, be more specific.

 

[NuGuy]

Yes, be more specific.

Heyas FDJ,

I'm sure your fellow committee members have a copy of the grievance. Just ask them. It has all the specifics.

Nu

 

[jetjockey#1]

RTFQ there Son. DALPA is working to *prevent* NWALPA from getting the contractual trip-rig.

We have a contract, signed and sealed, Mother DAL is making an argument over implementation based on interpretations, and DALPA, who will shortly represent both groups, is siding with management *against* NWALPA over contract compliance.

The displacement AE you are seeing IS related to this trip-rig disparity - your over staffing issue on certain aircraft didn't become manifest until FN came into the picture with a lower unit cost operation, courtesy of your MEC.


Sucks for you. Looks like the staffing we would not see in trip-rig is about to be more than offset by increased flying to FN as they right size gauge. It would have been a lot more cost prohibitve to do this if the trip-rig was in place.

Firs of all, I am not your son, and you are not my mom. Second of all, I was referring to the fact that you expect DALPA to spend DAL pilot's dues on issues at NWA. I understand the implications affecting us. Third of all, the only reason we are displacing is because we merged with NWA. If not, we would be hiring.
So, I recomend you to go to NWALPA and ask them to spend whatever dues are necessary to have your grievance settle.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

What we might have done as separate companies is of no relevance. Stating what might have happened only makes you miserable. What is happening is what matters. We are displacing 239 pilots at DAL downward. I am sure that some of the NWA folks that get displaced to the 9 are not going to be happy either.
Of course there will be more NWA folks getting upgrades and moveing to larger equipment in the near term. If you did not think about that when you voted for the JPWA you were kidding yourself.
Point is, deal with what is in front of you not what is behind you, nor what could have been. Doing such makes for a miserable existance.

 

[propdog]

Third of all, the only reason we are displacing is because we merged with NWA. If not, we would be hiring.

Well, it is your wonderful management who had this great idea of a merger. Not the NWA pilot group. So put the blame where it belongs....or better still... stop griping and deal with it.

 

[nwaf16dude]

I think the former NWA guys would accept that it will take a reasonable amount of time to implement the trip/duty rigs if we could just get a definition of "a reasonable amount of time" written down somewhere. This nebulous Bid Period 5 moving target is the problem. I would think that DAL guys would be interested in making that happen as well.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I agree!

All of a sudden parts of the puzzle are not fitting. It would be nice to know the "rest of the story." The unsubstantiated rumors are interesting:

1. Being done to dump the NWA poolies instead of hire them
2. Being done to whipsaw Delta pilots with cheaper NWA labor for a short term gain
3. Or, management scared witless about the economy and doing everything possible to reduce short term expenditures

Theory 3 seems to fit the best, seeing as how we are parking the most efficient jet on the planet and backfilling with RJ's, MD88's and DC9's to avoid the expense of major maintenance.

DALPA seems to resonate with the Company's economic concerns, both with opportunities and threats. Just my guess.

 

[FDJ2]

Heyas FDJ,

I'm sure your fellow committee members have a copy of the grievance. Just ask them. It has all the specifics.

Nu

Well, if the grievance is supported by facts, logic and reason you'll have no problem.

No idea why you're so desparate to get to our inferior work rules, at least you characterized them as inferior during the SLI arbitration.

"I know you Delta guys are hardover on the whole W2 issue, but at NWA, work rules matter, too. Alot of what you guys are claiming as an improvement, really isn't."

Now that the SLI is over, the truth comes out. The pay is better and the work rules and trip rigs.

Interesting that you had a fairly good idea about how this was suppose to work back in November, but not now. Emphasis added.


"Heyas,

DAL calls their bid months "bid periods". "Bid period 5" is that bid month that happens after bid periods 1-4 during the transition from NWA rules to the new JPWA.

I realize that sounds like an assinine answer, but it's important to the rest of the process. It is during bid period 5 that a LOT of changes happen for NWA guys.

The transition working group (TWG) is a group made up of NWA guys, DAL guys, NWA maganement and DAL management. Their goal is to transition pilots from the NWA CBA to the new joint CBA. This isn't something you do overnight, so there is a plan to transition from one to the other, and it is done over the course of 5 bid months. It just so happens that all of the big changes, and the final transition happens in the last month, or bid period 5.

This will be done on a fleet by fleet basis, so "bid period 5" will happen at different times for different fleets. It happens 5 months AFTER the TWG designates the fleet as starting the transition (or bid period 1). WHEN it happens is up to the TWG, and so far NO fleets have started the transition."

 

[FBN0223]

I think the former NWA guys would accept that it will take a reasonable amount of time to implement the trip/duty rigs if we could just get a definition of "a reasonable amount of time" written down somewhere. This nebulous Bid Period 5 moving target is the problem. I would think that DAL guys would be interested in making that happen as well.

Exactly!!!

 

[PuffDriver]

Well, if the grievance is supported by facts, logic and reason you'll have no problem.

No idea why you're so desparate to get to our inferior work rules, at least you characterized them as inferior during the SLI arbitration.

"I know you Delta guys are hardover on the whole W2 issue, but at NWA, work rules matter, too. Alot of what you guys are claiming as an improvement, really isn't."

Now that the SLI is over, the truth comes out. The pay is better and the work rules and trip rigs.

Interesting that you had a fairly good idea about how this was suppose to work back in November, but not now. Emphasis added.


"Heyas,

DAL calls their bid months "bid periods". "Bid period 5" is that bid month that happens after bid periods 1-4 during the transition from NWA rules to the new JPWA.

I realize that sounds like an assinine answer, but it's important to the rest of the process. It is during bid period 5 that a LOT of changes happen for NWA guys.

The transition working group (TWG) is a group made up of NWA guys, DAL guys, NWA maganement and DAL management. Their goal is to transition pilots from the NWA CBA to the new joint CBA. This isn't something you do overnight, so there is a plan to transition from one to the other, and it is done over the course of 5 bid months. It just so happens that all of the big changes, and the final transition happens in the last month, or bid period 5.

This will be done on a fleet by fleet basis, so "bid period 5" will happen at different times for different fleets. It happens 5 months AFTER the TWG designates the fleet as starting the transition (or bid period 1). WHEN it happens is up to the TWG, and so far NO fleets have started the transition."

Concisely stated, and correctly. All the whining. bitching, and moaning will not change it. BTW, you also forgot to quote the best of all: "Seniority is forever."

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I know NWA is ramping up 9 flying...but isn't this coming at the expense of the 757?

 

[~~~^~~~]

To some degree yes ... that is why I see this as a very temporary stop gap until the recession ends, or fuel spikes. When either of these events occur it is my opinion management will again have been guilty of burning the furniture to stay warm in the winter. The airline will be behind the power curve relative to other operators with more efficient equipment.

But hey, we saved the cost of a C check for 6 months and put it off until the prices went up - yippee!

 

[Superpilot92]

I know NWA is ramping up 9 flying...but isn't this coming at the expense of the 757?

The dc9 flying should be a net increase and the 757 pullback is only temporary. We"ll see

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Yes it is temporary. Like less time than it will take to train everyone.

 

[qxdash8]

Yes it is temporary. Like
less time than it will take to train everyone.

Yep were "loosing" a number of planes for the short term: 765's getting international configurations, 7ER's getting winglets, and 757's getting ER'ed for the upcoming Sal ops. These planes will be back soon and will need pilots. Could be a messy year for training!

 

[NuGuy]

I know NWA is ramping up 9 flying...but isn't this coming at the expense of the 757?

Heyas P,

That's what was stated, but a whole bunch of cancelled 757 flying has popped back into open flying.

We're stumped by it, too. Now we're hearing that the 757 pullback isn't going happen.

Nu