747 in DAL Colors

[DOVPILOT]

The word DELTA just looks out of proportion to me!

I agree, it should have been the size of Pan Am's billboard!!!!

 

[Monster Buck]

What got in to you? Seriously, why are you egging on all the DAL guys. They know that you are going to push them down, you do not need to remind them!

Actually Nu was just responding....Frank started it.

 

[RedRum]

What got in to you? Seriously, why are you egging on all the DAL guys. They know that you are going to push them down, you do not need to remind them!

Seriously ACL,

What color is the sky in your world?

We (NWA) got worked over in the SLI arbotration. No IF ANDs or BUTs about it. Don't try to make us think that we made out in this, because we didn't.

You are obviously a junior pilot who feels slighted. Are you one of the guys that got stapled? Maybe you thought you should be senior to a 2000 hire? If so, god bless ya. But some of us had to work mighty friggin hard to get to where we are.

Nothing has ever been handed to us.

 

[landlover]

Please post a picture of your airline. If its SWA Im going to puke then laugh.

whoa whoa whoa! settle down tiger! i work dog sh!t on demand cargo. not for any airline and just because i think the paint scheme is boring doesn't mean i dislike the airline.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Seriously ACL,

What color is the sky in your world?
Blue, and grey, but sometimes black, how about you??

We (NWA) got worked over in the SLI arbitration. No IF ANDs or BUTs about it. Don't try to make us think that we made out in this, because we didn't.
I am sure that there are some of you that did. Just like some of us did. Get over it.

You are obviously a junior pilot who feels slighted. Once again you are dead wrong. I do not feel slighted at all. I neither gained nor lost anything. I fully expect to get pushed out of my base and off my equipment. I have no issues with that. It is what it is, and I have not lost any sleep over it. I look forward to flying out of MSP.
Are you one of the guys that got stapled?
Nope not even close

Maybe you thought you should be senior to a 2000 hire?
I did not think anything. I did not want to gain nor lose position. I got what I was expecting, and yes, I am senior to 2000 hires.
If so, god bless ya. But some of us had to work mighty friggin hard to get to where we are.
I am no friggin 25 year old that put in a few years at the regional's. I had to wait an extra six years after DAL closed the doors in 01. Was glad to keep my job. I spent 10 years at the regional's. I am no spring chicken. I paid my dues too.

Nothing has ever been handed to us.

You know what, I have never had anything handed to me either. The people that know me, know that I work harder and smarter than most people out there. I work to get what I want and want what I get. I never expected nor expect anything that is not rightfully mine.
Take the chip on your shoulder and throw it at someone else. Your sterio types are way off in my case.

 

[Plug]

Seriously ACL,

What color is the sky in your world?

We (NWA) got worked over in the SLI arbotration. No IF ANDs or BUTs about it. Don't try to make us think that we made out in this, because we didn't.

You are obviously a junior pilot who feels slighted. Are you one of the guys that got stapled? Maybe you thought you should be senior to a 2000 hire? If so, god bless ya. But some of us had to work mighty friggin hard to get to where we are.

Nothing has ever been handed to us.

Actually, ACL was offered a class date at DAL in 2001 then 9/11 happened and the rest is history. He took it in stride and kept jis nose clean until hiring starting up again. I'd say ACL wasn't handed a damn thing so you may want to take something your diarea of the mouth.

Last I heard about the Arbitration is that FO's at NWA that were happy just to hold A320 can now hold 767ER Captain positions. So stop crying in your beer and getting pissed at people who may be smarter than you.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Last I heard about the Arbitration is that FO's at NWA that were happy just to hold A320 can now hold 767ER Captain positions. So stop crying in your beer and getting pissed at people who may be smarter than you.

You heard wrong. The award was almost a straight ratio. It did not take into account NWA's attrition. I have not met one Northwest pilot that is happy about the award, but most of them are accepting it and moving on. I would not recommend bitching to a Northwest guy about the award if you are a Delta guy. The list looks fair right now, but look at it in ten years and it will look like a ridiculous windfall for Delta. I laugh because all I have been hearing and reading before the award was how Delta was expanding and still hiring while NWA was shrinking and about to furlough. As soon as the award comes out, Delta announces it is cutting capacity again.

 

[RedRum]

You know what, I have never had anything handed to me either. The people that know me, know that I work harder and smarter than most people out there. I work to get what I want and want what I get. I never expected nor expect anything that is not rightfully mine.
Take the chip on your shoulder and throw it at someone else. Your sterio types are way off in my case.

Cry me a friggin river ACL,

Don't even begin to tell me about the sacrafices you have made.

You have not worked harder and smarter than most people out there if you got hired at Delta in 2007. What the &^%$ gives you the right to the seniority of a NWA guy hired in 2000. TELL ME!

You got what was was unexpected and have now forever gained from their loss.

WTF is a "sterio" type?

Get an education. Learn how to spell and then we can talk.

Were you from a PFT (Comair, other PFT BS operations) boy? I think it is shining through loud and clear. If so, be thankful your parents had the dough to pony up.

Don't mean to be a hater, but "I calls it like I sees it!" I can smell it a mile away.

 

[captain caveman]

Cry me a friggin river ACL,

Don't even begin to tell me about the sacrafices you have made.

You have not worked harder and smarter than most people out there if you got hired at Delta in 2007. What the &^%$ gives you the right to the seniority of a NWA guy hired in 2000. TELL ME!

You got what was was unexpected and have now forever gained from their loss.

WTF is a "sterio" type?

Get an education. Learn how to spell and then we can talk.

Were you from a PFT (Comair, other PFT BS operations) boy? I think it is shining through loud and clear. If so, be thankful your parents had the dough to pony up.

Don't mean to be a hater, but "I calls it like I sees it!" I can smell it a mile away.

I assume we are Delta pilots. ACL makes legitimate points. Luckily, he and I were not selected on our ability for the best spelling but for who would be a right fit for a great airline. I'm sure your process wasn't too different. I am a 2007 hire and have a 2001 NWA hire junior to me. Frustrating? I am sure. The fact remains that there are more favorable positions soon to be available to those former NWA pilots that could potentially slow down the progression and/or possibily displace premerger Delta pilots in part due to premerger Delta's superior fleet. Will Junior pre merger Delta pilot's benefit from the higher attrition from the NWA pilots in 10 years? Hopefully enough to offset the more immediate effects.

Without bitching and moaning from both former sides, it wouldn't have been fair.

 

[captain caveman]

Cry me a friggin river ACL,

Don't even begin to tell me about the sacrafices you have made.

You have not worked harder and smarter than most people out there if you got hired at Delta in 2007. What the &^%$ gives you the right to the seniority of a NWA guy hired in 2000. TELL ME!

You got what was was unexpected and have now forever gained from their loss.

WTF is a "sterio" type?

Get an education. Learn how to spell and then we can talk.

Were you from a PFT (Comair, other PFT BS operations) boy? I think it is shining through loud and clear. If so, be thankful your parents had the dough to pony up.

Don't mean to be a hater, but "I calls it like I sees it!" I can smell it a mile away.

Oh yeah, I payed my pft at asa with 3 credit cards and it took me about 4 years to pay off. Pretty crappy of me, eh? So did a bunch of guys from comair, aca, southwest and a few others. Glad you're above us. I'm glad you'll be a positive influence on us.

 

[RedRum]

The fact remains that there are more favorable positions soon to be available to those former NWA pilots that could potentially slow down the progression and/or possibily displace premerger Delta pilots in part due to premerger Delta's superior fleet.

Pre-merger superior fleet? HA HA HA HA

Where would you be if you were at 6% ratio on the DAL list. Plain and simple...where would you be if you used superior fleet type thinking.

It isn't about how superior your airplane is. It is about QOL!

I know I am beating the same drum over and over, but understand the reason you may be on superior equipment is because you are JUNIOR! The DC9 is not inferior to the MD88, nor is it inferior to the 767ER. Just ask RA or EB about that.

What is good for Delta is good for all of pre and post merger pilots in the long run.

Not trying to be an A$$$, just calling it like I see it. This merger is going relatively well so far. If we all take our turn and exercise the seniority we have been given it will all turn out just fine.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Redrum,

No doubt you have made greater sacrifices than I. But then, I never applied to NWA and never wanted to fly their equipment out of their bases. If I had been in your shoes, I'd have quit and obtained new shoes.

Those new 767 sized loafers look a lot better than those 1963 Converse All Stars.

Thank God for you - having someone to argue with is very cathartic while my home and job are being shopped by Superman, Prince Valiant, Cerbus the Aardvark, and Spawn.

 

[captain caveman]

Pre-merger superior fleet? HA HA HA HA

Where would you be if you were at 6% ratio on the DAL list. Plain and simple...where would you be if you used superior fleet type thinking.

It isn't about how superior your airplane is. It is about QOL!

I know I am beating the same drum over and over, but understand the reason you may be on superior equipment is because you are JUNIOR! The DC9 is not inferior to the MD88, nor is it inferior to the 767ER. Just ask RA or EB about that.

What is good for Delta is good for all of pre and post merger pilots in the long run.

Not trying to be an A$$$, just calling it like I see it. This merger is going relatively well so far. If we all take our turn and exercise the seniority we have been given it will all turn out just fine.

You're correct. My mistake. Superior fleet and bases, because I drive to my base. Bases are in large part what make qol. I am a relatively new hire that could drive to work and fly an er. Good qol? Most likely. I won't be flying a widebody in base for extra pay for quite a while.

But like you I think it's going well, overall.

 

[DBCOOPER]

If people like RedRum would go find another line of work, this would be a great job. All he does is badmouth others to make himself feel good. Poor guy.

To stick to the thread, the 747 looks great in DL colors, can't wait to see post 07 DL hires in the seats.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Cry me a friggin river ACL,

Don't even begin to tell me about the sacrafices you have made.

You have not worked harder and smarter than most people out there if you got hired at Delta in 2007. What the &^%$ gives you the right to the seniority of a NWA guy hired in 2000. TELL ME!
Really you know me?

You got what was was unexpected and have now forever gained from their loss.

WTF is a "sterio" type?

Get an education. Learn how to spell and then we can talk.

Were you from a PFT (Comair, other PFT BS operations) boy? I think it is shining through loud and clear. If so, be thankful your parents had the dough to pony up.
I did not pay for a job at ASA. I also paid my way all the way though school on my own dime!

Don't mean to be a hater, but "I calls it like I sees it!" I can smell it a mile away.

I think you sniffer is broken!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

If people like RedRum would go find another line of work, this would be a great job. All he does is badmouth others to make himself feel good. Poor guy.

To stick to the thread, the 747 looks great in DL colors, can't wait to see post 07 DL hires in the seats.

Funny thing is that the pilots from DAL that are stapled may not be subject to the fences.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Pre-merger superior fleet? HA HA HA HA

Where would you be if you were at 6% ratio on the DAL list. Plain and simple...where would you be if you used superior fleet type thinking.
Same place I am now. I was given a direct ratio and that is all I expected

It isn't about how superior your airplane is. It is about QOL!
Agree, but a superior airplane give you great QOL at work.

I know I am beating the same drum over and over, but understand the reason you may be on superior equipment is because you are JUNIOR! The DC9 is not inferior to the MD88, nor is it inferior to the 767ER. Just ask RA or EB about that.

What is good for Delta is good for all of pre and post merger pilots in the long run.
Agreed, and I have no issue with getting bumped from my aircraft or my base. Use your seniority. I will use mine.

Not trying to be an A$$$, just calling it like I see it. This merger is going relatively well so far. If we all take our turn and exercise the seniority we have been given it will all turn out just fine.

I am curious were you at ASA until 99? You seem like someone I know from Dallas!

 

[Plug]

RedRum needs some anger management!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Don't we all. I understand his issues with the seniority list. I get that he was furloughed and now has to look at a few under 30 pilots for the rest of his life. Guess what I do to. It does not bother me. I made peace with the fact that this industry is full of injustices. Many of them completely out of our hands.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Get a seniority list crystal ball with percentages. I guarantee you every single Delta pilot other than those at the very bottom will have better percentages up the seniority list for the rest of their careers than if Delta remained separate. This is the problem with the Nic award. He made a fair list at that moment in time. Too bad that moment was at the worst possible time for the East pilots. If it were in arbitration today (less than two years later), I guarantee you it would not be the same. The Delta list is fair today, but not tomorrow.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I will tell you this. We had a guy create an excel program. Plug in your pre and post merger end of year numbers and it gives you a graph.
It posted what I expected. Mine are almost exactly the same. They go up at the same time and level out at the same time.
As I stated, percentage wise, I stayed the same. From DCC to retirement. For some reason I will retire 10 numbers more senior with them merger than with out it! I am guessing that the DAL pre merger numbers are a little off

 

[Schwanker]

I'll lose 13% in relative seniority due to this merger over the next 12 years.

I'll retire at 8% vs. 1% at NWA.

Couple this with significantly higher number of "SUPER PREMIUM WIDEBODIES" per pilot at NWA which I'll no longer will be able to enjoy, I definitely was on the short end of this deal.

The attrition definitely wasn't accounted for in this miniscule pull-n-plug deal. Also, junior DAL guys now have a CPZ flowback option which previously didn't exist. Ironically, if the furloughs happen the pre 9/11 NWA hires will lose these CPZ seats to recent DAL newhires

Not bitching, just stating the facts. I'm over it and ready to move on.

Schwanker

 

[General Lee]

I'll lose 13% in relative seniority due to this merger over the next 12 years.

I'll retire at 8% vs. 1% at NWA.

Couple this with significantly higher number of "SUPER PREMIUM WIDEBODIES" per pilot at NWA which I'll no longer will be able to enjoy, I definitely was on the short end of this deal.

The attrition definitely wasn't accounted for in this miniscule pull-n-plug deal. Also, junior DAL guys now have a CPZ flowback option which previously didn't exist. Ironically, if the furloughs happen the pre 9/11 NWA hires will lose these CPZ seats to recent DAL newhires

Not bitching, just stating the facts. I'm over it and ready to move on.

Schwanker

Very doubtful any pre-9-11 hires at either airline will be furloughed, thanks to the part of our contract stating if someone prior to a Sept 1st, 2001 hire date is furloughed, every 76 seat RJ will lose 6 seats. What is great is that some of those pre Sept 1st, 01 hires are now junior to DL 07 newhires after that date, so they too are protected. Add to that any pilots junior to that date that do flow down to CPZ, the added expense of furloughing those guys, and retraining our guys, and then an eventual recall for both airlines. Very expensive. I guess DL could try to furlough people anyway, but they would have to take a look at the costs and loss of revenue from those larger RJs.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FBN0223]

Very doubtful any pre-9-11 hires at either airline will be furloughed, thanks to the part of our contract stating if someone prior to a Sept 1st, 2001 hire date is furloughed, every 76 seat RJ will lose 6 seats. What is great is that some of those pre Sept 1st, 01 hires are now junior to DL 07 newhires after that date, so they too are protected. Add to that any pilots junior to that date that do flow down to CPZ, the added expense of furloughing those guys, and retraining our guys, and then an eventual recall for both airlines. Very expensive. I guess DL could try to furlough people anyway, but they would have to take a look at the costs and loss of revenue from those larger RJs.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Good points. Forgot all about the "lose 6 seats" clause. Some good language for us to make furloughs a very tough choice for DL management. And like you said, a furlough of 300 or so Delta pilots would mean retraining almost the entire CPZ airline. We'll see...

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Good points. Forgot all about the "lose 6 seats" clause. Some good language for us to make furloughs a very tough choice for DL management. And like you said, a furlough of 300 or so Delta pilots would mean retraining almost the entire CPZ airline. We'll see...

Exactly. That is why it would need to be a long term furlough to make the retraining and furlough pay for itself. I have heard three years. Current projections on demand have it returning in two to two and a half. That puts it right on the line. Waiting for DOJ approval probably saved a lot of people from being furloughed. Time will tell.

 

[Schwanker]

Although CPZ was a loss in scope, it wasn't as bad as the DAL folks liked to advertise. Don't get me wrong, I was never in favor of the scope relief for CPZ to become a reality, but it could have been worse.

Schwanker

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Schwanker.. you are correct.

As bad as a give up as CPZ was, it actually makes furloughing more expensive and, therefore, less likely. Go figure, eh?